Yet another study shows hydroxychloroquine doesn't work against Covid-19 - CNN really wants this drug to not work to own Orange Badman

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A new study -- the largest of its kind -- shows that hydroxychloroquine, the drug touted by President Trump, does not work against Covid-19 and could cause heart problems.

The study was published Monday in the Journal of the American Medical Association. It follows a study published Thursday in the New England Journal of Medicine that also showed the drug doesn't fight the virus.

Even before these reports were published, the US Food and Drug Administration and the National Institutes of Health issued warnings about using the drugs for coronavirus patients.

In the most recent study, researchers at the University at Albany looked at 1,438 patients with coronavirus who were admitted to 25 New York City area hospitals. After statistical adjustments, the death rate for patients taking hydroxychloroquine was similar to those who did not take the drug. The death rate for those taking hydroxychloroquine plus the antibiotic azithromycin, was also similar.

However, the patients who took the drug combination were more than twice as likely to suffer cardiac arrest during the course of the study. Heart issues are a known side effect of hydroxychloroquine.

"The big takeaway for me from this study is that it's very consistent with the FDA and NIH guidelines that came out in April," said one of the study's senior authors, David Holtgrave, dean of the School of Public Health at the University at Albany. "When deciding on public health interventions and treatments for Covid-19 or any other disease, it's really important to follow the data and follow the science and make sure decisions are being made on the highest quality data possible."

This study likely won't be the last word on the drugs. Researchers at the University of Washington, New York University and other centers are still testing the drug in patients.

In the clinical trials, coronavirus patients are randomly assigned to take the drugs or to take placebos, which have no effect, and then the death rates between the two groups will compared. These types of studies are considered the most reliable.


Trump's enthusiasm for hydroxychloroquine
Starting in mid-March, President Trump became a frequent cheerleader for hydroxychloroquine, used to treat malaria, lupus and other diseases and the antibiotic azithromycin, often sold under the brand name Zithromax, or as a"Z-pack."

He promoted the drugs nearly 50 times, despite pleas from scientists to let studies decide if the treatment worked or not.

"HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine," Trump tweeted on March 21.

Fox News frequently echoed Trump, but both the network and the president quieted down about the drugs once studies started showing they didn't work and possibly could hurt.

No difference in death rates
Trump's enthusiasm for the drugs was based on a French study of 20 patients in March that showed the drugs might work against the virus. That study was criticized for poor methodology, with experts calling it "pathetic" and "a complete failure."

The medical society that published that study later said the study "does not meet the Society's expected standard."

But the study was enough to excite Trump, and enough to excite doctors, who were free to prescribe the drugs because they're both already on the market to treat patients with other illnesses.

The latest study in the Journal of the American Medical Association looked at the medical records of 18% of all coronavirus patients hospitalized in the New York City area from March 15 to March 28.

In this group, doctors prescribed both drugs to 735 patients, just hydroxychloroquine to 271 patients, just azithromycin to 211 patients and neither drug to 221 patients.

They found that those taking hydroxychloroquine, either alone or with the antibiotic, were sicker than other patients to begin with and as time went on had a higher death rate. However, once the researchers statistically adjusted for the fact that the patients who took the drugs were sicker to start with, there was no statistical significance between the two death rates.

Overall, the patients had a 20% death rate.

The patients in the study were in the hospital, and other research teams are studying whether hydroxychloroquine can prevent coronavirus infection or slow it down in the beginning stages of the disease.

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However, once the researchers statistically adjusted for the fact that the patients who took the drugs were sicker to start with, there was no statistical significance between the two death rates.

What the hell does this even mean?
 
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I dont know who is behind this push, the realy evil companies are all giving away cheap pills for free.
Bayer is run by Sauron himself, and even they dont have the guts to push some unproven stuff over cheap and safe pills.

My point is just, you can always expect them to act out of self-interest. In that way they are predictable, and that can be managed with regulation. Politicians are often in these industrie's pockets and benefit personally from keeping industries deregulated.
 
Except medical researchers, especially in other countries, don't have ties to that
Medical researches in other countries aren't all saying HCQ doesn't work though. There are reports of incredible success as well as reports of not so much success.

The rush to cherry pick the ones that don't show success and ignore the mitigating circumstances (HCQ studies done without zinc and/or antibiotics aren't testing the claimed treatment and should be ignored. HCQ studies done on patients who are already way past the point of it being an effective treatment should be ignored.

This study has some similar issues. That doesn't make HCQ automatically a wonder drug.

Since this article goes out of its way to connect this to trump, it should be doubly suspicious, as politics have nothing to do with medical efficacy.

Also, it's not just Trump. Many countries have tried to secure lots of HCQ. States with democrat governors are trying to get their hands on lots of it.
 
Medical researches in other countries aren't all saying HCQ doesn't work though. There are reports of incredible success as well as reports of not so much success.

The rush to cherry pick the ones that don't show success and ignore the mitigating circumstances (HCQ studies done without zinc and/or antibiotics aren't testing the claimed treatment and should be ignored. HCQ studies done on patients who are already way past the point of it being an effective treatment should be ignored.

This study has some similar issues. That doesn't make HCQ automatically a wonder drug.

Since this article goes out of its way to connect this to trump, it should be doubly suspicious, as politics have nothing to do with medical efficacy.

Also, it's not just Trump. Many countries have tried to secure lots of HCQ. States with democrat governors are trying to get their hands on lots of it.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was saying in an earlier post. It's really hard to determine success of a drug on an affliction which usually resolves itself over time.

Countries were trying to stockpile it, but I am pretty sure that was all a while ago (before it was determined not to really make a big difference). This whole right-wing conspiracy that academia is trying to sabotage anything Trump says is some really batshit insane conspiracy stuff I'd expect to see on The Donald
 
What? So it will always be good, even though it doesn't work, because it wasn't as bad as some people said it was?



Except medical researchers, especially in other countries, don't have ties to that

Oh hell no, I wouldn't take it except for extreme cases, which is what it tended to get prescribed for, past that the side effects are no where near worth getting over pnumonia. Giving people the drug for having Corona is stupid giving it to people on ventilators and who have a high mortality rate was worth doing. It was never a cure all and more of a hail marry so when the study removes all extreme casses that were assinged the drug it kind of removes all the cases it would be most usefull in.
 
Oh hell no, I wouldn't take it except for extreme cases, which is what it tended to get prescribed for, past that the side effects are no where near worth getting over pnumonia. Giving people the drug for having Corona is stupid giving it to people on ventilators and who have a high mortality rate was worth doing. It was never a cure all and more of a hail marry so when the study removes all extreme casses that were assinged the drug it kind of removes all the cases it would be most usefull in.

Except that such thinking prevents the exploration of the drug as a means to prevent further progression to said extreme cases and merely signals "the drug doesn't work" in unfortunate cases where the body is already ravaged, which is misleading when the proposed mechanism that lends the drug its purported efficacy is stymieing viral proliferation.
 
From what I've read over the years I wouldn't take a thing the AMA says at face value. I don't believe they are an objective apolitical organisation and am fairly certain you can pay them to say shit, like if you are a corporation who magically has some "research" you've conducted that says everything is just fine and your product is great. If I remember the AMA's main goal is to increase the salaries of it's members a.k.a. doctors, rather than any real dedication to scientific truth and the advancement of medical technology for the benefits of all humans.
Are those literal homeopathy websites? Half the first article here talks about the suppression of "natural healers" and calls every person mentioned a hack fraud without saying anything else about them.
 
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Oh hell no, I wouldn't take it except for extreme cases, which is what it tended to get prescribed for, past that the side effects are no where near worth getting over pnumonia. Giving people the drug for having Corona is stupid giving it to people on ventilators and who have a high mortality rate was worth doing. It was never a cure all and more of a hail marry so when the study removes all extreme casses that were assinged the drug it kind of removes all the cases it would be most usefull in.
This is something you take daily for months if you are in a malaria-prone area. Or have rheumatism. I doubt it's insanely poisonous unless you chug the whole bottle, like with any meds.
 
and now they announced this study here in the news with the biggest enthusiasm they could

"specialists advice to not take HCQ"

I have people in my own family that got cured using this protocol, and the dude was a huge fatass with enourmous chances of dying because of obesity complications.

what the fuck is the interest of driving people away from this drug? is going to a respirator with 50% chances of death really the outcome they are rooting for?
 
Trump never said they would work. Only that they showed promise of relieving some of the symptoms.
If it prevents the pneumonia but you have to deal with the other shit, would you take it?


what the fuck is the interest of driving people away from this drug? is going to a respirator with 50% chances of death really the outcome they are rooting for?

They need to drive up the trump death number. It's not going to be anywhere near where they said it was going to be making them look like fools............again.
 
Are those literal homeopathy websites? Half the first article heae talks about the suppression of "natural healers" and calls every person mentioned a hack fraud without saying anything else about them.
They sure are. I don't know why @Prince Lotor linked to a quack homeopathic woo bullshit site. It's anti-vax, too.
 
Didn't a huge stockpile of this drug disappear in france? Someone tied to wuhan lab links to its disappearance, too.

I think it's pretty obvious that certain groups have a vested interest in ensuring the impact of the virus on the world is as bad as possible.
 
But you'd trust them if they said they worked, because Orange Man good?

It's really tough to do studies about if a drug works or not when the disease they are using resolves on its own (in most cases). The results of this study are pretty consistent with what studies done in other countries have said
They'd still say it doesn't work because it's a generic cheap drug and not the newest expensive drug from big pharma.
 
Got a sauce on that, mister? I'm genuinely very curious!
I can't remember for the life of me and I might even be remembering it wrong, but AFAIK for sure there are some sketchy connections between certain french politicians and a certain biolab.
 
Good. (Not really good, but you know what I mean.) Maybe next month my mom will be able to get her Plaquenil for her RA. Since hospitals might not be trying to stockpile it, anymore.
 
Ah, yes, the website for the National Center for Biotechnology Information advocates for homeopathy.
I was referring to the truthwiki and Mises Institute links, read the specific part I quoted. The other link upon checking is from some sort of Economics Institute, that appears to place chiropractors and homeopaths positions that can actually compete with "allopaths",(read: actual doctors) in terms of actually treating people. It's irrelevant if the NCfBI was quoted in another part of the post cause these other two sources are so quackish. This isn't saying the medical industry isn't corrupt and open to govt/corporate subversion, but this isn't really much better.
 
I was referring to the truthwiki and Mises Institute links, read the specific part I quoted. The other link upon checking is from some sort of Economics Institute, that appears to place chiropractors and homeopaths positions that can actually compete with "allopaths",(read: actual doctors) in terms of actually treating people. It's irrelevant if the NCfBI was quoted in another part of the post cause these other two sources are so quackish. This isn't saying the medical industry isn't corrupt and open to govt/corporate subversion, but this isn't really much better.
Except the first link talks about the AMA's history of promoting cigarettes and how they offered cigarette companies advice on how to conduct "proper scientific studies" to demonstrate the harmlessness of their products.
And the second link has footnotes linking directly to the studies it talks about regarding the AMA's history of promoting medical orthodoxy in spite of new research about alternative therapies the were as effective as sugury as in the case of spinal fusions being recommended for chronic lower-back pain and disc degeneration.

Don't link shame me bro :(
 
Except the first link talks about the AMA's history of promoting cigarettes and how they offered cigarette companies advice on how to conduct "proper scientific studies" to demonstrate the harmlessness of their products.
And the second link has footnotes linking directly to the studies it talks about regarding the AMA's history of promoting medical orthodoxy in spite of new research about alternative therapies the were as effective as sugury as in the case of spinal fusions being recommended for chronic lower-back pain and disc degeneration.

Don't link shame me bro :(

Fair point, but your second link shows that AMA shit was in the 1930s. The third link actually works a bit against your argument, it appears to show that the AMA about-faced on the bribery industry collusion thing three decades ago (older than a lot of the posters on this site, I imagine). The last link seems to argue that pretty much every other doctor, not just the AMA, were fans of tobaccy back in the day. That kind of shoots another, bigger hole in your thesis that the AMA specificially is in industry's pockets.

I don't know shit about the AMA and thus don't have an opinon on the org, but your links don't do a good jurb of backing up your argument that it's a corrupt org today. I would like to actually know if that is true, but I can't come to that conclusion from the information you've shared.

You ought to actually read most of an article (and, gasp, think critically about what you read in said article) if you're going to share a link to it.
 
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