Xbox Game Studios Stupidity Hate Thread Game Pass Edition

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
That is its most recent failure. Honesty, I think they look upon the XBox brand and silently apologize to it. The oldheads anyway. It could have been great. They had the money, the engineers and the talent. Only thing that was missing was how to distinguish the XBox from the PS and Nintendo. They made PS but with less games, then Wii but worse and then they returned to a lesser PS. The XBox brand could have won if only they understood what to do with it. So mismanaged.
Might be the most mismanaged brand I’ve seen. M$ had it right during the early 360 era. Make affordable hardware, make up the loss with accessories and a subscription, and release fun games that cater to actual gamers. The Peter Moore era at M$ really was something. If M$ kept with that game plan and not try to make Kinect a thing, they could have won that era.

Just my two cents.
 
Might be the most mismanaged brand I’ve seen. M$ had it right during the early 360 era. Make affordable hardware, make up the loss with accessories and a subscription, and release fun games that cater to actual gamers. The Peter Moore era at M$ really was something. If M$ kept with that game plan and not try to make Kinect a thing, they could have won that era.

Just my two cents.
The one big flaw of that era was the RROD. I GET that the replacement policy was that every bricked machine was replaced for free but it created two new problem: Firstly, it made MS consoles be seen as inferior products. Hard to defend their manufacturing capabilities when you had so many of your consoles brick. And secondly, it created a lack of intimacy. You have a machine that lasts you for years and, when it is retired, you remember all the good times you had. When you go through more consoles than the school slut goes through boyfriends, you know there is an issue. You cannot form an attachment to a console under those circumstances.
 
Yeah, Sonic R is up there with Ridge Racer 4 when it comes to quintessential 90s OST.
Sonic 3d Saturn as well... specifically both Gene Gadget and Panic Puppet stages along with Robotnik's theme. 90's Richard Jacques was top-tier stuff. Between him and other people like CoLD SToRAGE with Wipeout, video game music was kickin back then.

Essentially if you liked artists such as Black Box, C + C Music Factory, SNAP!, Captain Hollywood Project, La Bouche, etc... then Sonic R is pretty much in the same league.
 
30% profit margins? How is that supposed to work? Aren’t consoles sold at a loss?
 
30% profit margins? How is that supposed to work? Aren’t consoles sold at a loss?

You're looking at it the wrong way. The Xbox division is being set up to fail, not being given a last chance. 30% profit is preposterous for anything not bleeding edge, but even then with games being given 5+ years to make it's not going to happen in the timeline Phil was given.
 
You're looking at it the wrong way. The Xbox division is being set up to fail, not being given a last chance. 30% profit is preposterous for anything not bleeding edge, but even then with games being given 5+ years to make it's not going to happen in the timeline Phil was given.
Problem is minimum 30% net profit is tech industry standard for established businesses. If "Xbox" were it's own company making the profits it does now they would have activist investors and private equity trying to take over.

I agree they're being set up to fail -- Xbox has been a bad investment and it isn't going to get any better.
 
30% profit margins? How is that supposed to work? Aren’t consoles sold at a loss?
Consoles are sold at a loss (or a very thin margin) but are loss leaders for everything else attached to it. Controllers, games, GamePass, XBoxlive, all of those items run at a much higher margin then the console itself.

Xbox can actually fairly likely hit 30% profit if they stop investing so much money into so many bad projects - just think of the money they've burned into companies like Rare, Obsidian, or ABK and gotten next to nothing for them. They own so many studios that produce so few games or other products that it's shocking they make a profit at all.

This is more a warning to Phil Spencer and Xbox that they are now expected to function like an actual company and not like a startup with no path to profitability.
 
Xbox can actually fairly likely hit 30% profit if they stop investing so much money into so many bad projects - just think of the money they've burned into companies like Rare, Obsidian, or ABK and gotten next to nothing for them.
I'm sure they could bounce back somewhat if they lessened the price of Game Pass and go through their Activision backlog beyond Call of Duty and regularly drop feed those IPs. I heard something about those Transformers games being interested in relaunching that franchise.
 
Consoles are sold at a loss (or a very thin margin) but are loss leaders for everything else attached to it. Controllers, games, GamePass, XBoxlive, all of those items run at a much higher margin then the console itself.

Xbox can actually fairly likely hit 30% profit if they stop investing so much money into so many bad projects - just think of the money they've burned into companies like Rare, Obsidian, or ABK and gotten next to nothing for them. They own so many studios that produce so few games or other products that it's shocking they make a profit at all.

This is more a warning to Phil Spencer and Xbox that they are now expected to function like an actual company and not like a startup with no path to profitability.
The problem is that for 4 generations, their MO was to act like a start-up and they never really learned. They just threw money at Xbox and expected their competition to implode first. That did not work out.
 
I'm sure they could bounce back somewhat if they lessened the price of Game Pass and go through their Activision backlog beyond Call of Duty and regularly drop feed those IPs. I heard something about those Transformers games being interested in relaunching that franchise.
Xbox relaunching a franchise? They've already cancelled some reboots, though Perfect Dark looked like garbage and the new Fable game looks equally awful.

MS owns tons of IP and has nobody who can run a game studio and make a good game. And because they bought out Activision and Zenimax, there are fewer and fewer companies around who would even be able to buy the studios and IP if Microsoft finally realized that the acquisition spree was a mess.
 
I wish people would stop saying this. Sea of Thieves is Rare's most successful game of all time, and one of Microsoft's biggest releases over the last 10 years. They wish all their studios could put out hits like that.
The problem is that Rare has been a Microsoft Studio since 2002 and has only really made 2 "good" games (Sea of Thieves and Viva Pinata) and a whole bunch of shovelware garbage. Prior to 2002 Rare was one of the greatest video game developers to ever exist so to take them over 23 years and only get one middling/profitable game is wild.

Rare (and other game studios) don't just sit on a shelf. They employ hundreds of people, hundred of various expensive computers/machines/software/licenses, office space, marketing budgets, business expenses and so on. Rare likely cost Microsoft $30,000,000/year, every year, for 23 years or $690,000,000. This is outside of the existing $375,000,000 that Microsoft paid to acquire them in the first place - putting them on the hook for more than a billion dollars so far.

I'm sure Sea of Thieves is a success, but there's no chance (doubly so with it being on Gamepass) that the profit is anything near enough to fill the cavern of a billion dollars of mismanagement. Given the cost of R&D development, the continuous development, the cost of being on other platforms, the cost of being on gamepass, the hardware cost, and so on - it probably made 50 million or more, which is great until you factor it all in.

They also never successfully capitalized on any of Rare's IPs (Perfect Dark, Killer Instinct, Kameo, Battletoads, Banjo, Conker, etc) and instead severely diminished their value.

TL;DR - Microsoft needs their studios to be profitable more than 1 time in 20 years, doubly so if the studio is a legendary studio that was dropping bangers year after year prior to acquisition.
 
I wish people would stop saying this. Sea of Thieves is Rare's most successful game of all time, and one of Microsoft's biggest releases over the last 10 years. They wish all their studios could put out hits like that.
Now compare that to Rare's output from the Xbox 360, original Xbox and Nintendo 64.

From 1997-2001, Rare released eight games for the N64 platform alone, that's not even accounting for their handheld offerings for the Game Boy Color. Perfect Dark, Killer Instinct, Banjo-Kazooie, Conker.

MS bought Rare in 2002 for $375 million. What did they do from that? Two original Xbox games, Grabbed by the Ghoulies and a remake of Conker's Bad Fur Day. MS even mandated that Conker should be censored for their upcoming console.

Fast forward to the Xbox 360, they did Viva Piñata, Kameo, Banjo & Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts and Xbox’s avatars. I’m not even going to count their first party Kinect games.

What has Rare done new since Sea of Thieves?
 
Kameo had amazing graphics, decent gameplay and a wonderful atmosphere. A funny and clever game. Grabbed by the ghoulies is one of my favourite Rare releases ever, it’s a well crafted hybrid of adventure and beat em up elements, great humour, high replay value.

The only piece of shit they made was the Perfect Dark reboot.
 
What has Rare done new since Sea of Thieves?
More Sea of Thieves. And can you blame them? They released the game on Steam and sold 5+ million copies, and then they released it on PlayStation where it sold 1.8+ million copies (and these figures are from around the launch of their respective platforms, so I expect it to be much higher in 2025). And that's not accounting for their in-game store revenue, season passes, etc.
That game raked in the money.

As for my opinion on Rare; Kameo, Viva Pinata, N&B were all great games in the 360 era. N&B was severely underrated and I will fight anyone that says otherwise.
 
30% profit margins? How is that supposed to work? Aren’t consoles sold at a loss?

Problem is minimum 30% net profit is tech industry standard for established businesses.

Just so you get an idea of how absurd is the ask of 30% profit margins from Xbox, by comparison Sony recovered its pre-pandemic profit margins this year, an impressive 16% after it had fallen as low as 4% in Q4 2022 due to the acquisition costs of Bungie. The highest it has ever achieved was 21% and that was in 2020, right in the middle of the pandemic.

Nintendo is the one pulling 30% percent profit margin because of their very unique hardware and software strategy. Microsoft is just being completely insane thinking Xbox can pull off those numbers.

Source 1
Source 2
 
Back
Top Bottom