Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

[Ivan Shatov]

Chinese market dives 8% but other world stocks stable

BANGKOK (AP) — China's main stock index tumbled nearly 8% Monday as the country's markets reopened and regulators sought to calm investors over the impact of a virus that has spread to more than...

apnews.com

Shanghai Composite index plunges 8.7% as market reopens

archived 3 Feb 2020 06:49:50 UTC

archive.fo

View attachment 1127954

Shanghai rallied to about a 7% loss for the day. Bad, but not as bad as it could have been.

Shenzhen is down about 8.2%. This is despite the fact China injected about $175 B into the markets over the last week.

I'm curious who's actually doing the selling. Shenzhen is all Series A and B stocks, they can only be owned by Chinese nationals. This could not have been Western investors pulling money out of the market, this was likely party insiders moving money around as a hedge. I'm certain there are trading restrictions that prevent anyone in government from moving more than a maximum amount in daily trading.

Going to be fun to watch what happens over the next 30 days.

The conspiracy theory from non-american tinfoils is that America actually ingenered the virus because China has grown too much and so, America released the virus to disrupt China, so they can stay in power.

People these days play too much Plague.Inc and think they are experts in virology.

Oh... I don't know about that.

While I truly doubt anyone in the West engineered this to happen, there are certainly some compelling cases for wanting to do so.

If you're not a Chinese national, you can't outright own a business in China. You have to have a 51% partner and contracts often require your business to hand over all intellectual property. It's really not a good situation.

If large-scale capital flight were to occur - money leaving China, markets crashing left and right - that could change some rules around business ownership. If the Country is suddenly in a position where they need Western investors to take a bigger role in capitalization of projects, those rules could change overnight. This would mean allowing international investors to pick up Series A and B shares in companies like Alibaba, which they currently can't do. They'd probably be prohibited from controlling more than 49% of any entity, and they'd still have to deal with the CCP and PLA, but those investments suddenly become a lot more secure because you're guaranteed to be paid out before anyone else.

A capital fund / VC with preferred shares in a high growth Chinese company would have massive advantages over other investments firms in the US and Europe. A firm that could sell those shares to regular investors would have clients lining up out the door. Something like this could set the table for the kinds of companies that get funded for the next decade. Assuming WuFlu gets dealt with and the markets return to normal, they'd be buying shares cheap with a reasonable expectation of 10% - 20% appreciation in 12 months followed by continuous growth. That's a pretty good deal.

But it's not the best deal. Dunno who pays attention to India, but there are several multi-billion dollar IPOs going on right now. There are a number of others in the pipeline. More importantly, a large part of the population washes their hands regularly because they were a British colony. Capital always demands concessions, if it's thought there's a way to invest in India and get a greater return without having to give away intellectual property, that's going to put a lot of pressure on the disease-addled, financially-strapped CCP to consider their position. To attain a competitive advantage - which they don't absolutely possess - the CCP might give up other stuff going far beyond finance. That could include normalizing currency controls, introducing hygiene to their people, that kind of stuff.

It's not like small capital syndicates in the West to take cruel, obscene steps to open access to markets in the East. Had never happened and never will.

 

[Palpatine]

ven if they did have issues with road transport, they have no shortage of cargo lifters for what's important.

Speaking of which, they haven't used any of their Y-20 cargo lifters at all for this event. When asked why, the speaker said it was because the majority of their fleet was Il-76 and there were not many Y-20 yet. That's not true becasue they have exactly 20 Il-76 and 20 Y-20. It just shows that this whole domestically built Y-20 thing is a farce.

 

[Otterly]

I'm not really


I'm not really versed in medical stuff, so I'd like to ask the wisdom of other fellow Kiwis here: is there a way to harvest antibodies from survivors and do something about them that helps combat corona-chan in other people? Or at least provide a starting point for the development of vaccines? Don't mind being rated dumb, so neg rate away, as long as someone educates this thread if that's possible or not.

It’s not a dumb question. It has actually been done - several people who have had and recovered from Ebola have donated plasma (which is full of antibodies) to other patients. Here is one example: http://archive.is/wip/kUWai
Modern vaccine creation systems work a bit differently (I think I posted a link a while back about different types)
So while you couldn’t make vaccine for a million this way, it has and is sometimes used for individual cases where no vaccine is available. Obviously it has drawbacks - you can pass disease through plasma too. But if you’re dying of Ebola and one of the team has recovered, then it’s an appropriate strategy.

 

[mindlessobserver]

China is burning all bodies that might be even the slightest bit infectious at the moment, their numbers can not be trusted.

ETA: They are massaging the death tolls as much as someone can - if someone dies of a related symptom that isn't directly from Corona-chan then they aren't listing it. The infected numbers are too low also, as they don't have the testing kits to test everyone that head to the hospitals. The degree of lockdown in those cities is something that the world hasn't seen (at least to this scale) in at least five decades.

China only cares about its economy and how it looks on the world stage, and the movers and shakers in the party know that this makes them look incredibly weak. And they're still going through with this total shutdown. The numbers aren't promising at all.

They're nightmare inducing.

So relevant.

The worst part is China could be telling the truth but absolutely nobody believes them. Another cost of lying all the time is when you really need people to believe you nobody does. Whats interesting to me is the complete radio silence from the people who we would trust to be more or less on the level. Namely, the CDC or in this rare instance, even the glowies at the CIA. You didn't see this level of crackdown on travel over SARS, MERS, or Pig Flu. They are just saying "risk to America is low, and we are gonna keep it that way". They probably have their suspicions too, but are not going to say anything. Either to assuage fears or confirm them.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

Re: Conspiracy theories, these have became lately a way to shut up inconvenient voices. Long gone are the days when some random said the moon was out of cheese. Now, if you think the Las Vegas shooting was an odd event that was never fully explained, you're a conspiracy theorist and a dangerous loon.

There is nothing 'conspira-ish' about wondering the origin of the virus. Yes, it can be the obvious and easiest explanation that someone ate a bat and got sick (and it probably will be only that), but the virus being caused by human error is equally possible imo. Just think how many times you've made a mistake while doing something you've done a milion times before, even if you're careful. Now, you think that can't happen inside a lab? Of course it can happen. It only needs to happen once.

And yes, of course, we shouldn't even rule out China doing this in purpose. This is the country that has kept dissidents and opponents in concentration camps. They don't care about their own people, why would they care about people they have labelled "problematic"? They've running experiments on the muslims, they wouldn't mind releasing a virus to kill their older population even if that means killing a few youngsters.

Thing is, these people are so corrupt, we're never going to actually find out. It's not like they're cooperating and giving away information related to this virus with other countries, amirite?

 

[AnotherPleb]

Twitter / Account Suspended

From breaking news and entertainment to sports and politics, get the full story with all the live commentary.

twitter.com

Forgive my bad chinese, I can't understand properly but it was pointed out that the facility was poorly constructed and the cameraman said "You're much more sanitized at your home than here"

And his new account's been wiped off twitter too. Looks like the CCP's leaning hard on Jack to shut him up in particular.

 

[Apathy is my superpower]

Russia wants to throw out the 2 infected chinese nationals:

Sources

 

[Super-Chevy454]

So relevant.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=DJzR91tfoyM
The worst part is China could be telling the truth but absolutely nobody believes them. Another cost of lying all the time is when you really need people to believe you nobody does. Whats interesting to me is the complete radio silence from the people who we would trust to be more or less on the level. Namely, the CDC or in this rare instance, even the glowies at the CIA. You didn't see this level of crackdown on travel over SARS, MERS, or Pig Flu. They are just saying "risk to America is low, and we are gonna keep it that way". They probably have their suspicions too, but are not going to say anything. Either to assuage fears or confirm them.

Speaking of Chernobyl, that article mentionned if Corona-chan is China's Chernobyl?
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/02/is_the_coronavirus_outbreak_chinas_chernobyl.html ( http://archive.ph/yiWuJ )

February 3, 2020
Is the Coronavirus Outbreak China's Chernobyl?
By Dexter Wright
To refresh our memories, it was in 1986 when the No. 4 nuclear reactor in the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant exploded and was burning as the solid fuel rods of Uranium melted down. The smoke and steam from the fire and firefighting spread across Northern Europe and the Russian steppes. The number of deaths attributed to this disaster could be as high as 100,000 but accepted estimates are closer to 27,000.
It was the failure of the Soviet system in dealing with a coordinated response that shook the faith of the people. They began to question whether the Soviet government had abandoned the interests of the people in favor of propaganda. The conclusion was that it certainly was not the health and welfare of the people which was first and foremost in Soviet governmental policy. Gorbachev himself wrote in 2006:

“The nuclear meltdown at Chernobyl… was perhaps the true cause of the collapse of the Soviet Union.”

It is clear that Gorbachev could not bring himself to admit that it was Ronald Reagan’s foreign policy which was the underlying cause. Regardless of the causes of the collapse, it seems history is about to repeat itself.
The outbreak in People’s Republic of China (PRC) has led to a declaration of a global public health emergency by the World Health Organization (WHO). In the 2019 WHO report of the ten most likely threats to global health, an influenza pandemic was in the top three. In light if recent events, it seems that it should have been listed as the number one threat.
Just as with the Chernobyl cover-up, there are indications that the outbreak of the corona virus is much more severe than has been admitted by the communist government. There are reports that the PRC is digging mass graves and burning bodies to deal with the death toll. If true, then the actual death toll is well above the 170 officially stated by President Xi Jinping’s government. Unlike the trade war or the Hong Kong protest, Xi cannot blame this outbreak on foreign powers. This was also the case with the Chernobyl meltdown
The questions about the official statements concerning the epicenter of the outbreak being a wild game market are being raised. Senator Tom Cotton (R-AR) issued this statement:

"I would note that Wuhan has China's only biosafety level-four super laboratory that works with the world's most deadly pathogens to include, yes, coronavirus,"

 

[Spatula]

Yes, it can be the obvious and easiest explanation that someone ate a bat and got sick (and it probably will be only that), but the virus being caused by human error is equally possible imo. Just think how many times you've made a mistake while doing something you've done a milion times before, even if you're careful. Now, you think that can't happen inside a lab? Of course it can happen. It only needs to happen once.

Of course it's possible.
To me it seems like people tend to flock to other sources of explanation for events that have gone out of hand.
For the spanish influenza, and everything preceding it was God's wrath. (when in fact was a pig farm with horrible conditions)
For everything past the mad cow disease it's a lab experiment gone wrong.

 

[AnotherPleb]

Of course it's possible.
To me it seems like people tend to flock to other sources of explanation for events that have gone out of hand.
For the spanish influenza, and everything preceding it was God's wrath. (when in fact was a pig farm with horrible conditions)
For everything past the mad cow disease it's a lab experiment gone wrong.

When in Rome do as the Romans do - and since this is in China I'll blame it on Xi Jinping losing the Mandate of Heaven.

 

[Otterly]

He explains how difficult and time-consuming the process is and how long-term-testing of new antivirals is necessary. 8000 SARS infections had not been lucrative then and "This is another reason why we now have no effective medication against the new virus."

All medical research takes ages. The SARS stuff was actively closed down, iirc, after SARS fizzled out, despite the scientists involved saying that it was only a matter of time before another similar one popped up. The vaccine was never completed. If we had listened to the experts, we might be in possession of a decent vaccine platform which can be adapted to changing coronaviruses, proper treatment plans and more concrete knowledge about how these viruses behave.
World bodies, national governments just will not ram it through their heads that one day, one of these things is going to be the big one. Every time one fizzles out its ‘hur hur silly scientists’ in the media and business as usual. The number one threat to human health in an acute sense is this. It’s an emerging viral disease we don’t understand and can’t control or treat.

 

[Coleslaw]

And his new account's been wiped off twitter too. Looks like the CCP's leaning hard on Jack to shut him up in particular.

And even so Twitter is still accused of being a puppet for the "rioters" in Hong Kong.

 

[LazyLizard]

well fuck, so the virus can survive for 5 days on surfaces, if you import anything from china you're importing the virus along with it...

Global Times on Twitter

“The #coronavirus can survive for five days maximum on smooth surfaces under suitable circumstances: experts from China's Health Commission”

twitter.com

Just the WHO diligently squandering their resources to fight internet wrongthinkers.

You cant make this shit up

http://archive.li/ZA49c

defending china until his dying breath, what a good tool he is

 

[JosephStalin]

And his new account's been wiped off twitter too. Looks like the CCP's leaning hard on Jack to shut him up in particular.

Emperor Xi has no clothes. He and the CCP can't handle the truth. Believe things are just going to get worse and worse in China. If so inclined, say a prayer for the innocent people all over who are suffering and dying.

 

[AnotherPleb]

Emperor Xi has no clothes. He and the CCP can't handle the truth. Believe things are just going to get worse and worse in China. If so inclined, say a prayer for the innocent people all over who are suffering and dying.

I've been doing that ever since I started following the thread.

 

[soft breathing]

It's your friendly German translator with some news from Krautland again.

Coronavirus: Lufthansa verlängert Stopp für China-Flüge

Lufthansa hatte bereits Flüge nach China bis zum Sonntag ausgesetzt. Nun wurde die Maßnahme um mehrere Wochen verlängert - Hongkong soll aber weiterhin angeflogen werden.

www.tagesschau.de

TL;DR:
- The Lufthansa-Group is stopping flights for longer than planned
- Lufthansa, Swiss & Austrian Airlines are stopping flights from and to Peking and Shanghai until the 29th of February
- Nanjing, Shenyang und Qingdao won't be headed for until the 28th of March.
- In total, that's 54 flights/week less from Germany/Switzerland/Austria to China
- The 19 weekly flights to Hong Kong remain unchanged

--

If anyone's interested how the returning people in the barracks-quarantine are holding up, there's an article here:

Der Alltag in der Germersheimer Quarantänestation

Nach dem aufregenden Wochenende kehrt jetzt Alltag in die Quarantänestation der Germersheimer Südpfalzkaserne ein. Die Stimmung unter den China-Rückkehrern ist gelassen. Bisher gibt es keine weiteren Infektionen.

www.swr.de

Just throw it through google translate since there's not a lot of relevant info in there.

 

[Shield Breaker]

China is burning all bodies that might be even the slightest bit infectious at the moment, their numbers can not be trusted.

ETA: They are massaging the death tolls as much as someone can - if someone dies of a related symptom that isn't directly from Corona-chan then they aren't listing it. The infected numbers are too low also, as they don't have the testing kits to test everyone that head to the hospitals. The degree of lockdown in those cities is something that the world hasn't seen (at least to this scale) in at least five decades.

China only cares about its economy and how it looks on the world stage, and the movers and shakers in the party know that this makes them look incredibly weak. And they're still going through with this total shutdown. The numbers aren't promising at all.

They're nightmare inducing.

Chinese people also have highly compromised immune systems and idiotic ideas about how to handle illness. The way the numbers drop once outside of the Middle Kingdom suggest that the first world isn't going to be subject to the Black Death 2: Corona Wu-galoo. The real danger is if it mutates.

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

And even so Twitter is still accused of being a puppet for the "rioters" in Hong Kong.

Yes, clearly it is important for the clown behind Zerohedge (based predictor of 500 of the past 2 recessions) to be able to encourage his moronic followers to harass random Chinese virologists who will be, you know, actually working on important stuff, by phone.

I'm sure Twitter is really bending over for the Chinese, you know, so that China doesn't block Twitter in China.

 

[northstar747]

who would deploy a bio weapon on their own people? even there own party doctors got sick and party members refused to travel to wu han.

My money is on research project got out.

 

[GloriousRapeRabbit]

who would deploy a bio weapon on their own people? even there own party doctors got sick and party members refused to travel to wu han.

My money is on research project got out.

If deployed intentionally i guess my bet would be on population control. China has got waaaaaay too many people. They are going to have to deal with it somehow sometime....With that said once again i have not got the knowledge to say YAY or NAY to bio-weapon. I got no clue, but that would be my guess.