Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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This person knew this was what was going to happen when they signed up to get on that plane out of Wuhan. There were more people wanting to leave than tickets available. If this was an issue for them, than they could have not gone. Additionally, I would much rather take a risk of getting the virus somewhere that has tons of trained medical personnel checking on me than coming home and risking infecting people.

I'm just playing the devils advocate on this. That's all. It's an interesting liberty issue. My point is, do we now treat everyone who has been in Wuhan since December 1st 2019 the same? And what if you were on a flight with one of the 6 known cases in the USA, do we as a country have the right to take them from their families and homes and quarantine them?

I bet you 500,000 dollars that the USA government staff evacuated from Wuhan aren't in a military base being denied liberty.

And if you do this, we are giving incentive to others who were in the Wuhan district to go to other ports and then make their way back into the USA to avoid quarantine. It gets messy, its never black and white.
 
Anyone seen this video on liveleak yet? Looks like mass seizures.

God, it looks like mass hysteria in a broke-down medical system full of sick and scared people during a national disaster in a third world nation.

The patients could be shivering incredibly hard (this can happen with fevers where your temp is all over the place and you feel cold when in reality you are getting hotter), seizing or god knows what. It could also be mass panic and reproduction of 'help me' behavior in some cases to try to get the few medics' attention.

Fuck knows. Glad I'm not there.
 
The videos with people seizing... it might be mass hysteria. Very high fevers can also do that. It's seen fairly commonly in very young kids with high fevers & if treated promptly, generally resolves without any long term problems... not as much fun for parents witnessing the seizure!

In adults, again, prompt treatment to bring down fever typically means no long term issues but... IF this is really fever, are these folks getting what they need?
 
Is this one legit? Because if so it might just be the single most idiotic response to Coronavirus seen yet?

Shanghai Medical Chief Replaces Doctors with Communists to Fight Coronavirus
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Getty ImagesJOHN HAYWARD30 Jan 2020204
6:47
Zhang Wenhong, the leader of Shanghai’s effort to battle the Wuhan coronavirus, made some waves on Wednesday by suggesting Chinese Communist Party officials should be working on the frontlines against the disease, in keeping with their “oath to put the public welfare first.”
On Thursday the state-run Global Times reported Zhang has indeed “replaced all frontline doctors with Party members and the decision is non-negotiable.”

Global Times

@globaltimesnews

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1222780064271491072

In face of life and death, Party members must fill frontline medical positions to fight #coronavirus! Zhang Wenhong, leader of the Shanghai Medical Treatment Expert Team, said Wed that he had replaced all frontline doctors with Party members and the decision is non-negotiable.

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2:14 AM - Jan 30, 2020
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Zhang said he is optimistic that the Wuhan virus can be controlled without a pandemic breaking out and causing massive loss of life, but only if the infection is contained within China’s Hubei province, which is ground zero for the outbreak. He was equally grim about the consequences of the virus escaping into the wider world and mutating, which would make it much more difficult to track lines of infection and establish effective quarantines.
“We have to be very cautious,” he warned. “If a region suddenly has a number of cases whose source of transmission cannot be identified, or if the region has its own second- and third-generation viruses, with the initial virus having mutated, this would mean the infectious disease has started circulating internally in that region.”
“This would be a very serious thing,” he continued. “If this happened, we would have to declare the failure of the ‘defense campaign’ in that region and move on to the next step: not just focusing on cases imported from Wuhan, but screening any patient with a fever.”
“At present, we can only hear the clock ticking without knowing what time it is,” he memorably remarked about the status of the epidemic during his press conference on Wednesday.
The Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday that Zhang was concerned about the enormous workload placed on doctors in Shanghai, so he has ordered them to rest while Communist Party members take shifts for them. The Global Times did not mention that he meant Communist Party members who also have appropriate medical training, not hapless bureaucrats. Zhang himself is a senior Party official.
“We can’t bully those who are more obedient,” Zhang said of the first responders. “So I’ve decided to change the shift. It will all be Party members from now on.”
“I don’t care whether or not you’re willing, you’re all going to step up,” growled Zhang, who sounded “exhausted and frustrated” in the Journal’s estimation.
Exhaustion is a big problem across the coronavirus battlefield, especially in Wuhan itself, where residents have smuggled out video of doctors collapsing from exhaustion and viral infection. Critics of the response from Beijing say it was obvious the hospital system in Wuhan was swiftly overwhelmed by coronavirus cases, but the central leadership waited too long to send in reinforcements.
Zhang mentioned the importance of psychological counseling for at-risk populations, noting that one reason the hospital workload has been so overwhelming is that panicked people who think they have fevers are rushing in to get screened for the Wuhan virus.
However, he also noted that screening is vital, and if the infection grows to the point where lines of transmission can no longer be traced, doctors will have little choice but to treat everyone with a fever as a potential Wuhan virus carrier. The Chinese government has implemented a requirement that pharmacies report every purchase of medicines for dealing with flu-like symptoms, fearing that people self-medicating at home might be reluctant to get tested for the Wuhan virus.
Taiwan News thought Zhang’s comments about getting Party members into the game “deviated from the Chinese Communist Party’s carefully scripted playbook” and interpreted his comment about the Party making good on its oath to “put the interests of the people first and face difficulties whatever the cost” as bitter sarcasm.
“You can mouth Party slogans in ordinary times, and you can join the Party for whatever reason. I’m sorry, but now you must act like true Party members and go forward,” Zhang said during his press conference, a demand that sounds more than a little off-script, although it is always possible the Party will use Zhang to build a propaganda narrative about courageous Communist officials marching selflessly to the front lines of the biological battle.
Chinese media reported on Wednesday that Communist Party chief Xi Jinping ordered the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) to become fully involved in the virus battle. Military doctors were dispatched to Wuhan earlier this month.
Asia Times on Wednesday saw the outbreak as a serious threat to Xi’s power and the stability of Communist Party rule, citing widespread public displeasure with the slow response and early efforts to cover up the severity of the outbreak. According to the report:
For Xi and the CCP, this a major challenge. During the past seven days, the virus has gone viral on Weibo, the Twitter-like social-media app, with speculation running rife on the government’s handling of the outbreak.
“This is probably the greatest political challenge that [Xi has] faced since taking office in 2012,” Allison Sherlock, a China researcher at the Eurasia Group, a risk consultancy, said. “At the central level, President Xi and his right-hand man, Premier Li Keqiang, I think they understand that the stakes are very high here.
“The mishandling of the virus didn’t just lead to the rapid spread of the outbreak, it also eroded trust in the government. And they’re going to try to do everything in their power to ensure that people start believing in their local officials again,” she told the CNBC television network.
CNN noted that Chinese Premier Li Keqiang, nominally the number two leader in China but marginalized into a largely ceremonial role by Xi’s accumulation of authoritarian power, was put in charge of a special commission and dispatched to Wuhan, where he has been filmed touring the city wearing a facemask – but Xi himself is absent, and that absence has been noted by disgruntled Chinese citizens.
“Li has enough guts to go to Wuhan, but not Xi,” observed adjunct professor Willy Lam of Hong Kong’s Center for China Studies, noting that when the SARS epidemic struck in 2003 Xi’s predecessor Hu Jintao made a point of personally visiting outbreak areas. Various China experts who spoke to CNN suspected Xi is more interested in setting up Li as a political fall guy than putting himself on the line to effectively deal with the crisis.
From that perspective, a highly-publicized demand from Shanghai’s chief medical expert for Communist Party members to put themselves on the frontline could be a useful step toward restoring a measure of public faith in officials. It might seem a little embarrassing in the short term, but if it fixes the image of Party leaders rolling up their sleeves and risking their lives to battle the epidemic in the public mind, it could pay long-term political dividends

Am I reading this right? Did the moron in charge of Shanghai actually replace all the lead doctors with Communist Party Officials and Political Aparatchik's? Yeah we are doomed as a species.
 
I get where you’re coming from, but I would be totally okay with being quarantined for 2 weeks knowing that I wouldn’t be spreading the infection to others. And if I was sick: it would be caught early and my chances of survival would be higher. The specific facts you brought up though aren’t really conducive to this being a liberty issue: if the government says “if you take this chartered flight you will be quarantined for 72 hours” and you decide to take the flight and not do as you agreed: of course they’ll crack down on you.
 
IF this is really fever, are these folks getting what they need?
This video was posted here earlier today. The answer is no.
tl;dr testing kits and supplies are being reserved for people who are already in serious condition when they get examined. People who have had fever/cough for up to a week are being turned away without diagnosis if their condition isn't "serious enough".
 
Still catching up, thread moves fast--bring on the tiny alarm clocks & apologies if this has been discussed in the last several pages. This was some moderately tinfoil advice given on another forum, hoping a farmer more versed in medicine (where's that adorable otter wearing a lab coat?) can weigh in on its veracity:
"You need to go to the store and buy one of these: Pepcid, Tagamet, Adix, or Zantac. Buy enough for you, xxxxx, xxx, and whoever you want to save, enough last 2 weeks. This covers your H2 antagonist drug.

Buy enough Prilosec, Prevacid. or Nexium to do the same as above.

This covers the PPI Drugs. (Proton Pump Inhibitors)

Lastly, I'd buy a big ass bottle of benadryl or generic benadry. aka... diphenhydramine. This covers your need for a H1 antagonist.

You know what benadryl does. But the H2 drugs work in the same way except on different histamines. The PPI (Proton Pump Inhibitor) stops monocytes from going into overdrive. (Monocytes = White Blood Cells) The Coronavirus hits in a similar way to the flu. As it is a "Novel Virus" meaning the body has never seen anything like this... the body goes nuts, to the point that your own immune system kills you in something called a Cytokine Storm.

This is very similar to a "Peanut Allergy", in that it's the bodies response that damages the person not the peanuts.

When to start this "therapy"? No need to take anything in advance. But at the first sign of "flu like symptoms" I'd start therapy. Take it as directed on the box."
 
I'm just playing the devils advocate on this. That's all. It's an interesting liberty issue. My point is, do we now treat everyone who has been in Wuhan since December 1st 2019 the same? And what if you were on a flight with one of the 6 known cases in the USA, do we as a country have the right to take them from their families and homes and quarantine them?

I bet you 500,000 dollars that the USA government staff evacuated from Wuhan aren't in a military base being denied liberty.

And if you do this, we are giving incentive to others who were in the Wuhan district to go to other ports and then make their way back into the USA to avoid quarantine. It gets messy, its never black and white.

It's an easy question if looked at it terms of which is the greater good and which is the greater ill:

The temporary loss of freedom and potential infection of a few individuals KNOWN to have been exposed to a highly transmissable virus that has the potential to kill thousands, and cripple society and economy.

or

The individual right of those few folks to be free to wander among the populace until they develop symptoms, act as potential disease vectors and if actually infected, cause exponentially more infections and deaths than if they'd been kept forcibly in quarantine.

To me the greater good lies in stopping transmission of the virus and the greater ill would be to allow it to spread and kill many more than it would have if the individuals were quarantined,

Obviously the best form of quarantine would be to seperate quarantined folks from each other as much as possible to stop the spread between those infected and those not. Allowing everyone to mingle or shoving them all in a dorm situation would be bad practice. You look at those Chinese hospitals and it's just the worst possible situation for spreading the virus between affected and those not but worried they may have been.
 
Several women, at least 2 black people, and we never get a full shot of the room to see if there’s more. The fuck is this hack on about?

Top pic is a Trump meeting, bottom Obama meeting.

I don't give flying fuck one who is on any coronavirus committee as long as they know their stuff and can help work the problem. Anyone who values "diversity" over competence is just fucking insane. Typical Communist News Network.

The two parts of Live Leak video don't match. First part looks to be somewhere other than China, on a summer day. People wearing summer clothes, from what I can see don't look Asian at all. Second part definitely from China.

State Department not recommending travel to China is a biggie. Tells me that China hasn't a handle on this outbreak at all, much less have it under control. Has China accepted any foreign aid yet? They really should - the "face" has been lost for good. Everyone sees just how fucked up things are there.

I wonder if anyone ever told the top CCP leadership that if you want a world-class country, you really should have a much better medical system than presently exists. You know zillions of yuan have been spent building all these buildings and certain infrastructure. Need to ask why money hasn't been spent on REALLY important infrastructure, such as water works/water treatment plants/sewer systems, and not just good hospitals, but local area clinics worthy of the name. Most likely not. In China, the turtle that sticks the neck out gets the head chopped off, historically. Believe many, many innocent people will pay the price for this deficient national development. All the top leaders care about is things looking good. Anyone can lead when things look good. The true test of leadership is getting things accomplished when the shit is hitting the fan, and in China it's hitting industrial-size fans by the trainload. Wonder if Emperor Xi has made any public statements recently. Perhaps he realizes he now has no clothes.

Some thoughts - we are far better able than China to deal with a major epidemic/pandemic. Much higher quality health system in general, fairly robust primary care available. Lots of doc-in-a-boxes and nurse practitioner-in-a-boxes around the country. Our national hygiene overall is much better. You can drink tap water anywhere in the USA safely, at least that coming from water systems.

One poster said that if many of the elderly died our economy would be very bad for the economy since they control so much of the GDP. Not really. Not all elderly people are rich. I hope we wouldn't lose anyone due to this virus but have to wait, see, and prepare.
 
Is this one legit? Because if so it might just be the single most idiotic response to Coronavirus seen yet?



Am I reading this right? Did the moron in charge of Shanghai actually replace all the lead doctors with Communist Party Officials and Political Aparatchik's? Yeah we are doomed as a species.
That's a CCP propaganda outfit, so I give it a 50/50 chance of being complete bs or being true because the doctors are all dead/Xi wanted to purge someone/that guy is a moron.
 
Anyone seen this video on liveleak yet? Looks like mass seizures.

Not sure what that first one is. I mean the first part could be real or hell it could have been a mass casualty exercise with a bunch of drama queens playing the injured. Seen the second part before in this thread but I dont think anyone verified where or when it was from. Seeing people doing the kicken chicken aint good but without knowing if its a 4chan troll or real just gotta take it with that big grain of rice.
 
Is this one legit? Because if so it might just be the single most idiotic response to Coronavirus seen yet?



Am I reading this right? Did the moron in charge of Shanghai actually replace all the lead doctors with Communist Party Officials and Political Aparatchik's? Yeah we are doomed as a species.

Makes no sense. Article says things can be handled if infection stays in Hubei province. That bird's long flown the coop. I could see a CCP chief telling Party members to come help the doctors/medical people, but not to replace doctors with unqualified CCP members.

Oh, US government personnel WILL stay quarantined if ordered to.
 
Too many people get their idea of quarantine from movies, where everyone is herded into a high school football stadium to wander around and intermingle.

Quarantine is a lot different. Number one, everyone is in isolation from one another, at the very least negative pressure plastic "bubbles", and only approached by people in full J-suits (hazmat suits) on internal feed. Number two, they aren't allowed to intermingle, since that violates the very concept of isolation and quarantine.

Do I figure that all of the quarantine areas are to Navy or Army NBC standards? Hell no. Once FEMA gets involved you'll be lucky if it's standing room only without Corona-Chan infused water dripping on everyone from the sprinklers.

But these people shouldn't be being exposed to each other according to protocol. At the VERY least they'd be in different rooms in a hospital or in old bachelor officer's quarters. They obviously aren't under extremely heavy guard or the person at question should have been turned around.

The question I have is: What level protocols are being put in place right now and being used?

And does the US government have the right to forcibly quarantine people? Yes. That court case was stupid and that judge ruled completely against common sense, as we saw when the nurse went out to get fast food and do some quick shopping.

But hey, if people feel that the government shouldn't have that right to quarantine people by force, then I don't want to hear any bitching by those same people if Corona-Chan decides she's tired of dancing on the stripper pole and decides to go to the club.
 
The second part of the video I posted appears to be from this article.

Fever is a known symptom of corona virus, and seizures are not uncommon for high fevers.

No idea if the first part of the video showing mass seizures is real or not. It's liveleak so take it with a grain of salt. Saw it on liveleak and wanted to share so people could make their own judgement.
 
For anyone curious as to why so many people are unconcerned about the rapidity of this spreading in the Western world, you should take a minute to pore over some "Chinese street food" videos for a better understanding as to how pathogens can be rapidly transmitted through Chinese society, especially at the rural level, because of their almost non-existent sanitation. I realize that this doesn't paint an entire picture and it's just a small facet of the problem, but it really helps illuminate a core problem in Chinese culture when it comes to preventative measures.

Sanitary precautions are not as prevalent in China as they are in more developed countries-- in fact they barely exist at all-- and as a result it is overwhelmingly common for Chinese food vendors to make and prepare and serve food in open-air areas with no gloves, they'll leave enormous amounts of food sitting in the open air with no food coverings, they'll have no proper place for utensils and plates and more often than not they'll just slap plates and bowls down right on top of the damned food, even after the bowl had been sitting on a dirty table that was maybe lightly dusted off, first.

Then on top of all that, the serving area winds up being packed with people who are failing to meet the same, basic, hygienic requirements. They'll sit on the floor--if there's even a floor-- they'll eat off of stools, they'll touch anything and everything with their bare hands which likely have not been washed at any point during their day job. All-in-all it's just a germ circus and even in backwoods, Kentucky flea markets you're likely to still find food preparation that's more sanitary than the average Chinese rural vendor.

 
Makes no sense. Article says things can be handled if infection stays in Hubei province. That bird's long flown the coop. I could see a CCP chief telling Party members to come help the doctors/medical people, but not to replace doctors with unqualified CCP members.

Oh, US government personnel WILL stay quarantined if ordered to.

I suspect that the plan with the US personel brought back is 3-5 days at the Military Base followed by the rest of a 14 day period more or less confined at home.
 
Is this one legit? Because if so it might just be the single most idiotic response to Coronavirus seen yet?



Am I reading this right? Did the moron in charge of Shanghai actually replace all the lead doctors with Communist Party Officials and Political Aparatchik's? Yeah we are doomed as a species.
The Tweet is real, but it might be mistranlated/misunderstood. Note that many top doctors are members of the Communist Party, he's replacing any non-Party member doctor with doctors with Party meemberships. So while not as horrific as it sounds at first place, it's not good how there is a bullshit political requirement for a completely technical, apolitical job.

Also noted that neither the Brietbart or Global Times news editor realized the difference in how party membership works in the USA/Western world and the China/communist world, but then we all know that journalists know nothing beyond parroting talking points, right?
 
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