Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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Ivan Shatov said:
Slides describing the nature of Corona Chan. Better than average chance it's CRISPR edited.
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what are the sequences flanking the ORF they claim is edited? On my phone so those are teeny tiny and I can’t see primary sequence data.
It is possible that someone has fucked up and loosed a virus. It happens (about which I shall power level no more than to say genetics is my area.) it doesn’t necessarily have to have been altered, it could just be something collected to study from the wild. These things do recombine and mutate rapidly and sometimes dramatically. Being close to bat and snake sequence alone would not be a smoking gun - that’s why these wet markets are a nightmare, they allow creatures to swap all sorts of pathogens and a lot of those pathogens can swap chunks of code. Flu for example circulates in waterfowl and pigs and you can get times when someone is infected with a new variant due to co infection with two strains that can recombine, etc. Hendra virus went bat to horse to human (it’s always bats... do not touch bats, ever. Cute yes, riddled with horrors, also yes.)
To say it’s edited would require a very careful look at the specific bits of sequence, the areas flanking them etc.
I’m interested in this though. Where did you find the slides?
 
pull over dat ass too fat said:
It's unbelievable to me that China would use something so chaotic and unpredictable as a weapon
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skeptics.stackexchange.com

Did ancient Chinese frontline troops decapitate themselves to scare their foes?

From Wikipedia's page on King Goujian of Yue, a king in Ancient China (~500BCE): King Goujian's army was known for scaring its enemies before battle by forcing its front line, composed of crimin...
skeptics.stackexchange.com skeptics.stackexchange.com
en.wikipedia.org

Boxer Rebellion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

Taiping Rebellion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

Backyard furnace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

Four Pests Campaign - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

i'm not going to dig through the annals but you get the drift.
one thing i've been thinking about is that the history of china is punctuated by massive human dieoffs every several decades (war, famine, plague, gov't incompetence, all going back to the days of the first emperor, too). the sad part of this whole thing is that the situation right now may well be just another turning of that historical gear for them.
however, china eventually "wins" because they can throw bodies at the problem until it goes away. unless of course a mongol or manchu is in power. then they conquer everything by throwing bodies at everyone else. whatever.
 
pull over dat ass too fat said:
Going to stress again the thing I've been concerned about the past few days. Despite this new virus appearing to have strong homology with the SARS-like bat coronavirus (like 95% iirc), bats aren't around in China at this time of the year. They're all hibernating. So this could not have come from eating bat. That's why the "snake" theory came about, but if you read the actual paper it's just bunk science. Not to mention it'd be unprecedented for it to be so generalized that it could quickly jump to reptiles from a mammal. Maybe it did come from some mammal that had come into close contact with bats, but we have no real informed guess on that, and I suspect you'd see more mutation if it switched to an animal that wasn't a bat species or closely related to bats, right? Bats are actually pretty closely related to primates, so that jump is a bit easier to make.
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exactly why does hibernation mean chinks couldn't be eating them? you can have them in captivity same as any other animal and on top of that they're hibernating, not disappearing into thin air. Idk how they get the bats but nothing on that end seems off to me. there's plenty China did wrong that led to the virus spreading (having nonexistent standards for health and safety chief among them) but I don't see anything that's even close to indicating it was deliberate
 
So dumb question, can this Wu Flue mutation pass from humans to animals? Do we have to worry about it spreading from say rats to people? Or is it only contagious person to person?
 
pull over dat ass too fat said:
iirc), bats aren't around in China at this time of the year. They're all hibernating
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interesting. It is possible that the virus has jumped bat-another vector-human. Hendra did this (to humans via horses but the original reservoir was bat iirc.) I’m not sure what kind of sequence change happened during that process. It is possible that another animal was in contact with bat droppings earlier in the year, has become infected and then transmitted from there. If that’s the case, it would strongly imply a large enough reservoir of virus in the wild and trapping and testing could identify the vector.
It is possible it’s edited. Sounds rather james bond but the high tech isnt immune from fuckups. I’ve seen them happen.
 
pull over dat ass too fat said:
I've been extremely reluctant to weigh in on this and still don't want anyone to take my opinions too seriously because I'm just riffing. It's been unbelievable to me that China would use something so chaotic and unpredictable as a weapon (experiment gone wrong would maybe seems more believable?), but so many things seem so weird about this virus.

Not familiar with the specific SARS virus genes, but fuck, if this person actually used the given sequence and didn't just mess with the input to troll tinfoils on the internet, that insertion is wild. Going to go check it out for myself & will update later. For anyone interested, the WuFlu sequence is here. I remember the other day a scientist said that it looked like the Wuhan virus had almost the same reservoir as the SARS virus, which seemed suspicious because using a phylogenetic tree tool shows that the SARS-like bat virus didn't descend from SARS, the two viruses descended from a common ancestor. Assuming that the SARS-like bat virus wasn't transmissible to humans (which is a reasonable "if" to be fair), the virus would have had to recreate the same feature analogously. Interested to see more data on that. Is there a discord or group chat for computational biology nerds looking at this stuff?

Going to stress again the thing I've been concerned about the past few days. Despite this new virus appearing to have strong homology with the SARS-like bat coronavirus (like 95% iirc), bats aren't around in China at this time of the year. They're all hibernating. So this could not have come from eating bat. That's why the "snake" theory came about, but if you read the actual paper it's just bunk science. Not to mention it'd be unprecedented for it to be so generalized that it could quickly jump to reptiles from a mammal. Maybe it did come from some mammal that had come into close contact with bats, but we have no real informed guess on that, and I suspect you'd see more mutation if it switched to an animal that wasn't a bat species or closely related to bats, right? Bats are actually pretty closely related to primates, so that jump is a bit easier to make.
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I’m sure we’ll find out if the Chinese make it public.

However, that market was filthy and disgusting. There were live animals next to slaughtered animals and meat being sold. Being that this involves the Chinese, who are nasty af, they didn’t clean or sanitize anything so who knows where or what it came from.

There are reasons why 1st world countries don’t eat bush meat and follow extensive sanitation methods for slaughtering and butchering animals.
 
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pull over dat ass too fat said:
bats aren't around in China at this time of the year. They're all hibernating. So this could not have come from eating bat.
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Otterly said:
interesting. It is possible that the virus has jumped bat-another vector-human. Hendra did this (to humans via horses but the original reservoir was bat iirc.) I’m not sure what kind of sequence change happened during that process. It is possible that another animal was in contact with bat droppings earlier in the year, has become infected and then transmitted from there. If that’s the case, it would strongly imply a large enough reservoir of virus in the wild and trapping and testing could identify the vector.
It is possible it’s edited. Sounds rather james bond but the high tech isnt immune from fuckups. I’ve seen them happen.
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Don’t you also think it’s a possibility that even if it isn’t bat season, this was brewing for some time before? That it first jumped to healthy people working around the markets who probably mistook it for a common cold and stayed that way for a bit until other people started coming in contact with it in big enough quantities and after getting medical care the experts saw it didn’t match any other known virus? The sequence homology to bats makes it obvious the origin lies from there.
:thinking:
 
I don't see what hybernating bats have to do with people not eating them. Chinese are too polite to wake them up? I'd think it would be best time to harvest the fuckers and then once they drop them into hot oil, I'm sure the hibernation would be over real quick.
 
Pomeranian bitch said:
Don’t you also think it’s a possibility that even if it isn’t bat season, this was brewing for some time before? That it first jumped to healthy people working around the markets who probably mistook it for a common cold and stayed that way for a bit until other people started coming in contact with it in big enough quantities and after getting medical care the experts saw it didn’t match any other known virus? The sequence homology to bats makes it obvious the origin lies from there.
:thinking:
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ma'am, this is A&H, i'm not sure why you're looking for thoughtful posts here.
 
It can not be overstated the relevance of this virus being reported to be contagious during incubation period. This is unprecedented for a coronavirus. It turns this virus into a true monster.

And where the god damn fuck is the CDC and WHO on this with this information on the incubation period being shouted around news sources?

Nothing from WHO or the CDC despite news sources reporting the most alarming and unprecedented mutation a coronavirus could have. If this incubation period is active then there are hundreds of cases in the USA right now.
 
downloads said:
So dumb question, can this Wu Flue mutation pass from humans to animals? Do we have to worry about it spreading from say rats to people? Or is it only contagious person to person?
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not a dumb question at all. We don’t know , is the answer. Loads of diseases are zoonotic (can pass from animals to humans) and plenty go the other way as well.

Pomeranian bitch said:
Don’t you also think it’s a possibility that even if it isn’t bat season, this was brewing for some time before? That it first jumped to healthy people working around the markets who probably mistook it for a common cold and stayed that way for a bit until other people started coming in contact with it in big enough quantities and after getting medical care the experts saw it didn’t match any other known virus? The sequence homology to bats makes it obvious the origin lies from there.
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for sure. There’s a hideous respiratory virus around here at the moment with an unusually high rate of pneumonia complications. It’s flu season. It’s only when people start dropping dead or you’re swamped with cases or someone sends a sample off that comes back with something new that you realise. Disease surveillance rarely picks up the very first cases, you have to track back for those.
 
Ivan Shatov said:
No one should be sharing any misinformation. Unless you have seen the virus with your own eyes, you have no business going on about it.

Everyone in this thread is a racist. Pink eye kills more people annually in the West.
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Bullshit re the racism charge. Got a lot of people concerned about this and not comfortable at all with the way China is handling the problem.
 
Menotaur said:
It can not be overstated the relevance of this virus being reported to be contagious during incubation period.
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I missed that. Where has that been reported? That would ramp up the spread ability hugely.
There are going to be some people at various installations going through that sequence with a fine tooth comb if that’s true.
 
JosephStalin said:
Bullshit re the racism charge. Got a lot of people concerned about this and not comfortable at all with the way China is handling the problem.
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Oh, come on. It's not like the Chinese are going around fucking with CRISPR to change genetic code. We have no basis for criticizing the cultural norms over there.
 
Cutlass Supreme said:
Two days ago the CDC said it wasn't transmissible until symptoms appeared. I wonder who's wrong here.
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God I would like to know. I just rechecked the CDC site and ALL mentions of the incubation period are no longer there. WTF?

And BTW, with the changes to the avatars, mine is clearly the best. Fuck you to the rest of you.
 
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