Why it's (almost) impossible to argue with the right - Projection: The Article

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Why it's (almost) impossible to argue with the right

The right only debates with itself: their view and their version of the left. Fighting with that is near impossible​


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People hold up signs during a rally against "critical race theory" (CRT) being taught in schools at the Loudoun County Government center in Leesburg, Virginia on June 12, 2021. The term "critical race theory" defines a strand of thought that appeared in American law schools in the late 1970s and which looks at racism as a system, enabled by laws and institutions, rather than at the level of individual prejudices. But critics use it as a catch-all phrase that attacks teachers' efforts to confront dark episodes in American history, including slavery and segregation, as well as to tackle racist stereotypes. (ANDREW CABALLERO-REYNOLDS/AFP via Getty Images)

Not long after the attacks of September 11, 2001, my mom accused me of hating my country. By then she had fully fallen into the Fox News world, having married a far-right man late in life. But her position still surprised me. I was, after all, her own daughter. Didn't she have a basic idea of what I thought?

I explained that being against the war in Iraq, opposed to invading Afghanistan and all-out critical of just about everything the Bush administration did was not akin to hating my country. We went around in circles. But there was no convincing her that she held the wrong premise and that critique was not hatred.

That wasn't the only time in those years that I dealt with being told that I hated my country, but it certainly was the most frustrating. Again and again, then as now, those of us who make critical arguments about the United States, those of us who question conservative policies, those of us who point out examples of right-wing hypocrisies, aggressions, abuses and lies find ourselves in the strange position of having to argue against a warped understanding of what we advocate.

My mom and I never discussed what I actually thought about the United States, because the entire conversation was framed by her assertion that I hated it and my efforts to explain that I didn't.

I don't think I fully captured the core of the problem until I recently read an essay in The Atlantic by Ibram X. Kendi on how there is no debate over critical race theory. As Kendi puts it:
The Republican operatives, who dismiss the expositions of critical race theorists and anti-racists in order to define critical race theory and anti-racism, and then attack those definitions, are effectively debating themselves. They have conjured an imagined monster to scare the American people and project themselves as the nation's defenders from that fictional monster.
Kendi brilliantly lays bare that which many of us have been ensnared in for ages — that pundits and politicians create their own version of many progressive, liberal and leftist views, and then they fight with their version. There is no real debate and certainly no dialogue, because the entire game is to offer up a distorted version of a position, then freak out about it.

Once the pattern is recognized it can be seen everywhere. Kendi refers to the way it has been used with Black Lives Matter, the New York Times' 1619 Project, cancel culture, and critical race theory, but we can see the same play made with almost all progressive political positions. Professors are trying to brainwash students to become socialists, feminists think all men are rapists, abortion rights defenders don't care about life, the gay community doesn't respect marriage, and so on. We can even see it in claims that young people are snowflake whiners.

They distort from the start and then take up all of your bandwidth in fighting their distortion. They don't just set the terms; they singlehandedly define them — for both sides.

It isn't just that the right argues with itself. It is also that they do it really loudly.

There is little question that the vituperative, bullying nature of the right's so-called debating is also a core part of the problem. First, they misrepresent you, then they spin up into an incoherent meltdown. Think for a moment of how we now have such a high-profile chorus of right-wing gasbags, all of whom make their illogical points really loudly. Sometimes, as in the case of Alex Jones, they do so while shouting so intensely that they seem to spit into the microphone.

Take, for example, the recent scare over President Joe Biden's door-to-door vaccine strategy. The White House has noted that there is a growing disparity in communities receiving the vaccine. So, Biden proposes the notion that in some communities it might be beneficial to go door-to-door to spread information about vaccine safety and efficacy in order to encourage more people to get vaccinated.

Yet, that's not what the GOP hears. Instead they turn this plan into a sinister strategy, which according to GOP Rep. Madison Cawthorn (N.C.), could be used to take all manner of items away from citizens: "They could then go door to door and take your guns. They could go door to door and take your Bibles."

So, what should the White House do? Refute these loony claims? Doing so only allows the right an ongoing platform to repeat them and forces the White House to engage in an exhausting repeat loop of trying to explain themselves. Yet leaving these unfounded accusations out there unchallenged has the real risk of costing lives. It's an impossible situation because it shuts down any form of reasonable exchange.

You can't debate with someone who isn't even listening to your point.

The rub, as Kendi makes clear, is that one simply can't argue with someone who won't even listen. "How should thinkers respond to monstrous lies?" he asks. "[T]alking with people who have created a monologue with two points of view, theirs and what they impute to you, gets old."

But what doesn't get old is finding a way to expose the rhetorical games played by the right. You might not want to bother trying to debate them, but there is much to be said for finding ways to reveal the faulty logic, hubris and bluster that so often characterizes their manufactured outrage.

This, of course, is why irony and satire do a better job of diving into the fray than reasoned critical discourse. Satire can take the absurdity of these right-wing faux debates and expose their spectacle. Think, for example, of how Desi Lydic Foxsplains for "The Daily Show." Even better, check out her takedown of the fake debates staged on cable news. Or consider how Samantha Bee drives home Kendi's point in her bit, " What Are Conservatives Screaming About today?" where she dissects the irrationality of the critical race theory backlash. Trevor Noah underscores the point the right has manufactured their version of CRT with a segment called, "Do Any Republicans Know What Critical Race Theory Actually Is?"

What this critical satire does is both refuse to debate with someone incoherent and irrational, while also refusing to let their claims remain unchallenged. Using irony is often the only way to fight the illogically absurd.
 
Yeah all I ever get from anybody on the right* is "Not my job to educate you, nazi" so I totally know what the author is talking about.

*stage right
 
Obligatory "both sides have radicals", but the difference is that a right-winger calling you names and a left-winger calling you names is that the right-winger needs to actually win people over in the court of public opinion, while the lefty can just say "haha you're stupid" and they're still gonna have their establishment power.

Both sides have legions of morons that can't argue to save their lives; but it's a lot more dangerous from the Left because they're well aware that they don't need to debate or argue when they could just use force or institutional power. A right-winger acting like a moron gets shunned and mocked; a left-winger acting like a moron gets defended and has their ideas championed by the power.
 
The 1619 Project was such a spectacular garbage fire of bullshit even literal commies had to publish a book to discredit it.
What's this WSWS you ask?

The WSWS is the online publication of the world Trotskyist movement, the International Committee of the Fourth International, and its affiliated sections in the Socialist Equality Parties around the world. It launched publication in February 1998, and has been publishing continuously for the past 23 years.

The WSWS aims to meet the need, felt widely today, for an intelligent appraisal of the problems of contemporary society. It addresses itself to the masses of people who are dissatisfied with the present state of social life, as well as its cynical and reactionary treatment by the establishment media.

Our website provides a source of political perspective to those troubled by the monstrous level of social inequality, which has produced an ever-widening chasm between the wealthy few and the mass of the world’s people. As great events, from financial crises to eruptions of militarism and war, break up the present state of class relations, the WSWS will provide a political orientation for the growing ranks of working people thrown into struggle.

Yeah.
 
yeah nah
the left was calling Trump nazi for, well everything, but among other things for "keeping kids in cages", which was a policy started by Obama, and they very well know that it was started by Obama, yet only Trump is nazi for doing this, Obama was not, and neither is Biden. Try arguing with people with that levels of cognitive dissonance
 
politics right now is a game of 'how much longer can the left sink their claws into people' and 'how much do RINOs like losing?'

Freedom of Speech is now a political issue. Either you are for people freely expressing ideas you disagree with or you're a democrat. LOL

2021...never fucking imagined I'd be a 'Right winger nazi bigot' because of the value 'agree to disagree'.
 
The 1619 Project was such a spectacular garbage fire of bullshit even literal commies had to publish a book to discredit it.
Trotskyites generally are no fan of anything that distracts from revolutionary politics based on class into idiot sideshow ID politics trash fires that accomplish nothing except alienating people from each other. So that's where they're basically coming from. Much of WSWS is pure blithering lunacy but they occasionally do some actual real research, like how CounterPunch, founded by a Marxist, exposed Kurt Eichenwald as a pedophile.

"Critical race theory," at least currently practiced in a degenerate form, is nothing more than racism in blackface.
yeah nah
the left was calling Trump nazi for, well everything, but among other things for "keeping kids in cages", which was a policy started by Obama, and they very well know that it was started by Obama, yet only Trump is nazi for doing this, Obama was not, and neither is Biden. Try arguing with people with that levels of cognitive dissonance
Well before Obama, for certain values of "keeping kids in cages," which is often an hysterical exaggeration. Probably as long as we've kept asylum seekers in state and federal prisons, or private prisons. Would they rather have the kids surrounded by chomos and murderers in a literal adult prison?

It sucks but if you break the law and bring your kids along things aren't to be fun for any of you.
 
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The projection is even more extreme in the comments.
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When I debate people on reddit it takes only 2 replies for them to get enraged and call me names. Its pretty fun actually you should try breaking NPCs some time
There is rally no point in arguing with retards like this, they are about as entrenched in their alternative reality as a Facebook QTard who thinks Trump is the shadow prez is.
 
The right only debates with itself: their view and their version of the left. Fighting with that is near impossible

I explained that being against the war in Iraq, opposed to invading Afghanistan and all-out critical of just about everything the Bush administration did
Again and again, then as now, those of us who make critical arguments about the United States, those of us who question conservative policies, those of us who point out examples of right-wing hypocrisies, aggressions, abuses and lies find ourselves in the strange position of having to argue against a warped understanding of what we advocate.
Pas d'ennemis à gauche, pas d'amis à droit.

"Why don't the filthy righties listen to me when I scream at them, accuse them of moral turpitude at every opportunity while ignoring the voluminous misdeeds of the 'Left'?"
we can see the same play made with almost all progressive political positions. Professors are trying to brainwash students to become socialists, feminists think all men are rapists, abortion rights defenders don't care about life, the gay community doesn't respect marriage, and so on. We can even see it in claims that young people are snowflake whiners.
Just like all priests are child molesters, #YesAllMen, refusing to allot taxpayer money for abortion on demand and birth control makes you the White Taliban, and so on.

They are what they accuse you of being, which leads to the conclusion that progressives have no principles, and therefore, arguing with them, because they will try to shift the grounds when they start losing, has no meaning, unless you just enjoy pissing them off.
 
Obligatory "both sides have radicals", but the difference is that a right-winger calling you names and a left-winger calling you names is that the right-winger needs to actually win people over in the court of public opinion, while the lefty can just say "haha you're stupid" and they're still gonna have their establishment power.

Both sides have legions of morons that can't argue to save their lives; but it's a lot more dangerous from the Left because they're well aware that they don't need to debate or argue when they could just use force or institutional power. A right-winger acting like a moron gets shunned and mocked; a left-winger acting like a moron gets defended and has their ideas championed by the power.

Right. These political arguments "end" when the right-winger is fired, banned, deplatformed, and censored.

Think of something like "super straight" as being one large, albeit short-lived "argument" against trans tyranny. Leftists never had to "win" this argument in the court of public opinion, nor did they try to. They simply bawled to their corporate masters until the wrongthink was nuked. Same thing with the election fraud. Not even the nerdiest of "I love science" shitlibs ever felt compelled to analyze Biden's "victory" -- they simply censored all dissent.
 
No, I was dead-on before. You're conflating an impression and its application with a re-representation of the argument itself. They didn't hear "go door to door to spread awareness" as "they're gonna take away your stuff"-- they heard "go door to door to spread awareness", and then proposed a slippery slope to "they're gonna use this to take away your stuff sooner or later". They recognize what you're proposing at that moment, but they don't trust you to do that and then leave the mechanisms you built or otherwise used to not do something else in the future... like take guns away.
It’s like arguing with a child. They say “you‘re not listening to me” or “you don’t understand me” when what they really mean is “you’re not agreeing with me and doing what I want!”
 
"She has received grant funding totaling over $4.5 million from the National Endowment for the Humanities, the Social Science Research Council, Fulbright, the Department of Education, the Tinker Foundation, the World University Network, and other funding agencies."

Follow the money trail if you want to know who's behind this bitch.
 
Professors are trying to brainwash students to become socialists, feminists think all men are rapists, abortion rights defenders don't care about life, the gay community doesn't respect marriage, and so on. We can even see it in claims that young people are snowflake whiners.
These are all true more or less. I'm sure there are some gays that respect the institution of marriage, but the gay community, as a whole, isn't really known to practice monogamy. Gay men think threesomes are prudish.
 
This, of course, is why irony and satire do a better job of diving into the fray than reasoned critical discourse. Satire can take the absurdity of these right-wing faux debates and expose their spectacle. Think, for example, of how Desi Lydic Foxsplains for "The Daily Show." Even better, check out her takedown of the fake debates staged on cable news. Or consider how Samantha Bee drives home Kendi's point in her bit, " What Are Conservatives Screaming About today?" where she dissects the irrationality of the critical race theory backlash. Trevor Noah underscores the point the right has manufactured their version of CRT with a segment called, "Do Any Republicans Know What Critical Race Theory Actually Is?"

What this critical satire does is both refuse to debate with someone incoherent and irrational, while also refusing to let their claims remain unchallenged. Using irony is often the only way to fight the illogically absurd.
"Don't debate, just watch propaganda"
I feel like this is how the CCP instructs its citizens to deal with dangerous thought. "Don't debate these people who say that Taiwan is an independent country, just watch tv and ignore any contrary voices"

Edit:
The rub, as Kendi makes clear, is that one simply can't argue with someone who won't even listen. "How should thinkers respond to monstrous lies?" he asks. "[T]alking with people who have created a monologue with two points of view, theirs and what they impute to you, gets old."
This is a good one, with absolutely no sense of the irony of the statement, despite the closing of the article being about irony.
 
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