UK Why British MPs should vote for assisted dying - Soon British healthcare will be as great as Canadian healthcare!

A long-awaited liberal reform is in jeopardy​

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image: The Economist/Dreamstime

Nov 21st 2024

This newspaper believes in the liberal principle that people should have the right to choose the manner of their own death. So do two-thirds of Britons, who for decades have been in favour of assisted dying for those enduring unbearable suffering. And so do the citizens of many other democracies—18 jurisdictions have passed laws in the past decade.

Despite this, Westminster MPs look as if they could vote down a bill on November 29th that would introduce assisted dying into England and Wales. They would be squandering a rare chance to enrich people’s fundamental liberties.

The proposal—put forward as a private member’s bill by Kim Leadbeater, a Labour backbencher—seeks to set out the safeguards that would govern assisted dying for the terminally ill. This will be a free vote, in which MPs follow their conscience rather than a party line and Ms Leadbeater has received no help from the government, even though the prime minister, Sir Keir Starmer, has said he is in favour. A few weeks ago, it looked as if her bill would pass. Now opposition is growing and Sir Keir has taken up a position on the fence.

You might think the debate over assisted dying would be about principles. But appealing to God or the sanctity of life would no longer succeed in today’s Britain. Such arguments, however sincere, operate in a space that is governed by individual conscience, not the state.

What is more, the principle of assisted dying has already been established. The courts have ruled that doctors can withdraw life support from patients in a vegetative state. And Britons are free to travel to Switzerland for an assisted death. Between 2016 and 2022, about 400 people did so.

Ms Leadbeater’s bill extends this logic. Going to Switzerland to die costs about £15,000 ($19,000); companions risk prosecution. The bill would make assisted dying open to anyone who qualifies, rich or poor, including those who need their family to be with them.

Those who can no longer defeat the bill on principle have therefore joined those who worry about the details. But these arguments do not withstand scrutiny either.

Much of the running is being made by Wes Streeting, who as health secretary has argued that access to palliative care is too hit-and-miss to give terminally ill patients a genuine choice. That is a red herring. The closest analogue to Ms Leadbeater’s proposed system is in the Australian state of Victoria, which passed its law in 2017. It gathers data on palliative care and has found that assisted dying does not happen more often in places where access is patchier.

In any case Mr Streeting could afford to improve access to palliative care. Those in the hospice sector in England believe that an extra £350m-400m of annual statutory funding, around 0.2% of the nhs budget, would allow them to meet demand fully. Even then, the need for assisted dying would remain. One reason is that in around 1% of cases, the best palliative care does not ease physical pain; another is that most people choose assisted dying because they want autonomy.

In a bold piece of ministerial judo, Mr Streeting also argues that the health service, which he runs, is too broken to take on the burden of assisted dying. Yet doctors already routinely make decisions over life and death. Through the principle of “double effect”, doctors can administer painkillers to terminal patients knowing that they will cause death. One salutary consequence of Ms Leadbeater’s bill would be to bring these obscure judgments into the light, and to involve patients in them.

Critics also raise concerns about the risk of coercion. But that is not credible in this case. In Ms Leadbeater’s bill a person with around six months to live must make sustained requests approved by two doctors and a judge. The idea that an evil relative might go to great lengths to kill someone who will shortly be dead makes no sense.

Someone may choose an assisted death for fear of being a burden, which is cited as a reason in four out of ten cases in Oregon, which has had an assisted-dying law for longest. It would be better if people didn’t feel burdensome, obviously, but that does not stop them from making rational choices. Indeed, the option to die may be all the comfort people seek: a fifth of those handed the medication in Victoria never take it.

Even if opponents of the bill are reassured by these arguments, some cannot shake the fear that Ms Leadbeater’s law would be a slippery slope. If they mean that the criteria would sneakily be broadened to include the mentally ill or disabled without further legislation, then the facts are against them. In no case has an assisted-dying law restricted to the terminally ill expanded in this way. In Canada the scope widened, but that was because the courts enforced broad eligibility criteria derived from the country’s existing Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

If they mean that future legislation could extend the right to assisted dying after due debate and consideration, then that is not an argument against, but a recommendation. In the view of The Economist, Ms Leadbeater’s bill is drawn too tightly. Oregon and Victoria have shown that a doctor does not need to be present for the medication to be safe. A High Court judge is unnecessary when two doctors have already given their opinions. A prognosis of six months or less to live is arbitrary and imprecise. A 21-day cooling-off period is too long for people with only a very limited time to live; in 2021 California reduced this period from 15 days to two. None of that is an argument for voting down the current bill—indeed it can improve as it passes through Parliament.

Ms Leadbeater’s bill would have been better if the government had helped her prepare it, or if Sir Keir had set up a citizens’ assembly that weighed up the evidence and presented MPs with an agenda. The fact that he did not is one more example of his passive style of government. But that is not a reason to reject it, either. We would sooner that more Britons benefit from greater freedom, choice and dignity than none does. MPs should reassure themselves about the details of the bill, and then they should vote for it.

Source (Archive)
 
This newspaper believes in the liberal principle that people should have the right to choose the manner of their own death.
You already do. You’re welcome to top yourself any time you like in any manner you can manage.
What you don’t have a right to do is demand someone else kill you. You do not have a right to make killers out of others, or an industry of killing.
 
Remember when "death panels" was just a funny thing that a milf from Alaska said?

Complain all you want about the american healthcare system, it is a mess. However they have an incentive ($$$$$$$) to keep you living. With the NHS they will have an incentive to hasten your death.

I believe in Death with Dignity, but this isn't it. This is Death by Budget.
 
Are there circumstances in which assisted suicide would be beneficial to people with terminal illnesses? Yes. Do I trust the government to put sufficient safeguards in place to prevent the scope of assisted suicide being widened, or for the safeguards that are put in place to not gradually fall away? Fuck no. It's too much of a can of worms for me to be comfortable opening.

"But that's a slippery slope fallacy! No one is saying people will be encouraged to have themselves euthanized!". Slight problem with that argument, the advocates for this are already pushing for that:
Let’s acknowledge and confront the strongest argument against assisted dying. As (objectors say) the practice spreads, social and cultural pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths so as “not to be a burden” on others or themselves.

I believe this will indeed come to pass. And I would welcome it.
 
They always try to present it as some nice thing, "die with dignity", then you find out some elderly Canadian lady asked for a stair-lift and was told by the Canadian government, "too expensive, but we have another offer: we can kill you".

I could see allowing assisted dying in very limited and specific circumstances but this shit is the fastest slippery slope in existence, it immediately results in the government just killing off anyone that would be even a little bit more expensive to keep alive as well as some random depressed autistic's.
 
How interesting that a paper titled "the Economist" is in favour of assisted dying.

Either way despite being in favour of it Canada has poisoned the debate to a ludicrous degree. Kier trying to cram this through via a back bencher is an insult to the populace too.
 
No one asked for this, there's no call for this, this isn't a pressing issue, no one wants this. Why the fuck is this even up for a debate? This is such an out there and radical, and needlessly morally heavy thing for the subhuman spastic retards in government to try and talk about. No MP has more empathy than a cockroach; unironically. None of them are qualified to try and discuss this as a concept; they are not intellectually or emotionally equipped for it. It'd be like asking a 9 year old to try and legislate on it. Absolutely fucking insane.
 
This newspaper believes in the liberal principle that people should have the right to choose the manner of their own death.
So you looked at Canada and saw homeless people, depressed people, and veterans being actively encouraged to choose the government's preferred manner of death and yet you still wrote this article.

If they mean that future legislation could extend the right to assisted dying after due debate and consideration, then that is not an argument against, but a recommendation.
Making scope creep easier is a feature, not a bug.

Don't worry bongs, in a few short years you can be like the leafs and proudly proclaim that your own government is the second most common cause of death of your fellow countrymen.
 
Starmer thinks he can use his huge majority to force this through, despite it being a deeply unpopular policy that wasn't even mentioned in the Labour election manifesto. I'm drowning myself in rainbows to hope that it's the first defeat he faces, because that would mean things are becoming unglued behind the scenes faster than I'd expected.
 
then you find out some elderly Canadian lady asked for a stair-lift and was told by the Canadian government, "too expensive, but we have another offer: we can kill you".
The latest one wasn't even elderly or a economic burden in any way, she probably pays more in taxes per year than the lift costs. They just wanted to murder her.
 
The "Days of NHS spending" Xitter channel is always attacking them. https://ghostarchive.org/archive/pKtH3
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The British public worships the NHS despite it being both highly inefficient and offering mediocre healthcare. I'm also convinced it's why British culture has taken a sharp turn towards petty authoritarianism. "We need to stop people eating fast food/smoking/etc. to relieve the burden on the NHS!". It's as if the public exists for the benefit of the NHS rather than the other way around.
 
The British public worships the NHS despite it being both highly inefficient and offering mediocre healthcare. I'm also convinced it's why British culture has taken a sharp turn towards petty authoritarianism. "We need to stop people eating fast food/smoking/etc. to relieve the burden on the NHS!". It's as if the public exists for the benefit of the NHS rather than the other way around.
The NHS propaganda is primarily meant to keep you content with being poor. Every normie copes with “well we have free healthcare” when they’re told that Americans earn multiple times as much as them for the same job. If Europeans actually knew how much money and benefits American workers actually have, they’d riot.
 
The NHS propaganda is primarily meant to keep you content with being poor. Every normie copes with “well we have free healthcare” when they’re told that Americans earn multiple times as much as them for the same job. If Europeans actually knew how much money and benefits American workers actually have, they’d riot.
The UK is will be the new Prussia but far more gay. A run down healthcare service with a country attached.
 
If Europeans actually knew how much money and benefits American workers actually have, they’d riot.
I do. They earn roughly 2.5-4x what I do for the same job or even slightly less senior.
And ironically, when I joke about it with American colleagues THEY start with the free healthcare stuff.
 
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