UN White House authorizes lethal force for troops at Mexico border

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https://nypost.com/2018/11/21/white...w&utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter

The White House gave troops stationed at the southern border the OK to use lethal force if necessary — a move that legal experts warn may violate the Posse Comitatus Act, which bars the military from being used for civilian law enforcement.

The “cabinet order” was signed by White House Chief of Staff John Kelly — not President Trump — and authorizes “Department of Defense military personnel” to “perform those military protective activities that the Secretary of Defense determines are reasonably necessary” to protect border agents, the Military Times reported.

That includes “a show or use of force (including lethal force, where necessary), crowd control, temporary detention and cursory search.”

There are about 5,900 active-duty troops and 2,100 National Guard forces deployed to the Mexican border.

Trump had said earlier this month that the troops could “fight back” if the Central American asylum seekers heading to the US border hurled rocks their way.

“They want to throw rocks at our military, our military fights back. I told them to consider it a rifle. When they throw rocks like what they did to the Mexican military and police I say consider it a rifle,” the commander in chief said on Nov. 1.

He later walked back the comment that rocks are the same as rifles after widespread condemnation.

Some of the actions described in Kelly’s late Tuesday order, including crowd control and detention, could violate the 1898 Posse Comitatus Act.

The Congressional Research Service determined “case law indicates that ‘execution of the law’ in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act occurs (a) when the Armed Forces perform tasks assigned to an organ of civil government, or (b) when the Armed Forces perform tasks assigned to them solely for purposes of civilian government,” the website reported.

But the law also allows the president “to use military force to suppress insurrection or to enforce federal authority,” the service found.

Prior to the midterms, the president employed harsh anti-immigrant rhetoric to describe the “caravans” of migrants — many of them women and children — fleeing their homelands.

He repeatedly called the caravan an “invasion” of the US, claiming without evidence that “Middle Easterners,” terrorists and hordes of violent gang members had infiltrated the group in an effort to fire up his nationalist base.

He ordered the troop deployment, and ominously warned that the active duty troops would stop the asylum seekers, though their actual role turned out to be building camps and stringing barbed wire along the border.

Trump barely mentioned the caravans after the midterms, and the Pentagon announced that the border operation, briefly dubbed “Operation Patriot Freedom” before the brass scrapped that moniker, would be wound down and that the troops would be home by Christmas.

Some of the migrants have amassed at the border city of Tijuana, while others remain hundreds of miles away from the US.

Experts eyed the order warily.

Posse Comitatus is “always looming in the background. You never invoke it as such because it is such a background principle,” William Banks, author of “Soldiers on the Home Front: The Domestic Role of the American Military” and the former director of the Institute for National Security and Counterterrorism at Syracuse University, told the website.

Kelly said in the directive that the move was necessary because “credible evidence and intelligence” suggest that the migrants in Tijuana, “may prompt incidents of violence and disorder” that could threaten Border Patrol personnel.

But the White House could still find itself in legal hot water if the authorities in the memo are determined to be counter to the law, Banks said.

Personally im of a neutral opinion. But if the caravan is going to try to force its way across the border like it has been forcing its way through Mexico then they get what they deserve.
 
Or maybe we should just pay a decent wage to people who do these jobs that need to be done. And maybe people who do these jobs should actually be considered good people for doing something that needs to be done.

People who dig ditches, clean toilets, cook hamburgers, and other similar tasks are doing something necessary and should be treated with dignity and paid a living wage.

But how are we going to feel smugly superior to a McDonald's fry cook and briefly forget our crippling student loan debts if we're forced to acknowledge they're people too

In all seriousness, I get the idea that people who do more important work deserve to get paid more by comparison, but we still need ditch diggers and cashiers and fry cooks to make the little fiddly bits of our society run and it's not like we can just impose some "YOU MUST BE THIS TEENAGED TO WORK HERE" rule to stave off the uncomfortable truth that we pay and treat people with genuinely necessary jobs like shit.
 
Or maybe we should just pay a decent wage to people who do these jobs that need to be done. And maybe people who do these jobs should actually be considered good people for doing something that needs to be done.

People who dig ditches, clean toilets, cook hamburgers, and other similar tasks are doing something necessary and should be treated with dignity and paid a living wage.

The wage paid for those jobs is exactly enough to get people to do those jobs. That's capitalism for you. If they didn't pay enough, they wouldn't have anyone doing the job.

There's always going to be a need for unskilled labor, but guess what. There's always going to be a big group of unskilled laborers too, they're called teenagers and retirees. When there aren't enough people willing to work for what they're paying, they'll have to pay more. Illegal immigration and the illegally low wages of course completely undercut this idea, illegal immigrants inflate the supply of cheap labor, and don't create any demand, so they make cheap labor cheaper.

I don't pay anyone to do jobs that "need to be done", so I don't know who "We" are. Each company individually determines what it will pay. If "We" means the government, it already pays more than labor is worth thanks to "Prevailing wage".

All this is separate from the idea of dignity. I don't treat fast food workers or janitorial staff poorly, and if you do, you're right, stop doing that. At the same time, some 25 year old that's still working at a gas station isn't going to get a hell of a lot of sympathy for me when he complains he doesn't make much money.
 
lol, as mentioned in another thread I worked janitorial in the medical setting for $17/hr and full benefits. People in the same department would STILL bitch it isn't enough. Go ahead and give everyone $15/hr, the bitching still won't end and people will still be lazy.
 
The wage paid for those jobs is exactly enough to get people to do those jobs. That's capitalism for you. If they didn't pay enough, they wouldn't have anyone doing the job.

And it (mostly) works. There's a reason fast food places in a lot of areas have to pay significantly more than minimum wage to get workers.

I don't treat fast food workers or janitorial staff poorly, and if you do, you're right, stop doing that.

I treat fast food workers and restaurant workers well, and amazingly, I get great service wherever I go.

Whenever I hear someone complain about how terrible the service they get is, my first thought is they probably treat the people serving them like shit.
 
And it (mostly) works. There's a reason fast food places in a lot of areas have to pay significantly more than minimum wage to get workers.
The Wally World nearby offers $11/hr straight away. A few years ago or so it was only $8.25. In fact a lot of retailers have stepped up their base pay since then. If they don't, well good luck getting any new employees.
 
People who dig ditches, clean toilets, cook hamburgers, and other similar tasks are doing something necessary and should be treated with dignity and paid a living wage.
Not most of the ones I've seen. But not because they're doing those jobs.
 
The Wally World nearby offers $11/hr straight away. A few years ago or so it was only $8.25. In fact a lot of retailers have stepped up their base pay since then. If they don't, well good luck getting any new employees.

That's the great thing about super low unemployment. Labor is in short supply. Along with a strong economy, creating high demand for labor, it's a labor seller's marker. That's the workers. In a strong economy, minimum wage is much less of an important issue than it is in a weak economy, because people would work for less if they could in a weak economy(The economic problem with illegal immigration). People aren't going to leave a job to take a lower paying one.

This is also a good time for the rights of workers. Businesses don't want to piss off their good employees when they know there are 3 other businesses out there waiting to snatch them up. When they know you're likely to be unemployed for 6 months if you leave they know you're less likely to make trouble, or to complain.

But as I've been told, the policies Trump has implemented of giving tax breaks to everyone including the rich and stuff like that just don't work. So I guess it's actually just a huge coincidence that what trickle down theory says would happen is pretty much exactly what's happening. (Of course, it worked under Reagan too, but nobody likes to admit that). Doesn't everyone hate getting more money in their paychecks?
 
I treat fast food workers and restaurant workers well, and amazingly, I get great service wherever I go.

Whenever I hear someone complain about how terrible the service they get is, my first thought is they probably treat the people serving them like shit.


This. When you're pleasant to the staff, they'll usually bend over backwards to please you. And you'll probably get a lot less spit in your food. This goes for retail workers too.

If you're nice to people, they'll usually be nice right back. Amazing concept!
 
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