💬 Off-Topic When/how will transgenderism end?

[ManInTheBlarms]

no many of know they exist, the issue is that too many are attempting to grift instead of just trying to live. Plus the trans movement isnt some civil rights movement atleast in the normal state, its devolved into pure degeneracy and is heavily involved in politics now drowning out its original "trans lives are human lives" message.

This is the same thing people have always said though. "Gays are different from the blacks, look at nambla! And the blacks are different from women, they have those psycho black panthers!" there's always going to be more extremist political sides, and those are always going to be overblown by the right wing as evidence that everyone in the group needs to be shut down or put in prisons or whatever else. Overwhelmingly the main ask of the trans rights movement is for the government to leave them and their doctors to figure out what's best to treat them without subjecting them to infinite moral panics. And now the right has shaped the narrative to the point where a trillion shrieking commentators insist that anyone who ever does anything bad MUST be a trans lunatic the way they did with satanists in the 80s

 

[General Zoider]

the main ask of the trans rights movement is for the government to leave them and their doctors to figure out what's best to treat them without subjecting them to infinite moral panics.

I honestly wish this was true, because then they could be on the same level as the LGB in terms of "just let me be" but a vast majority throw themselves in front of the metaphorical bus, giving those commenters the fuel. It would be one thing if the commenters are cherry-picking and searching for things to use agenst the trans community, but in many cases they just need to "look out the window". The trans community are usually the front line for any political or social issue. It used to be the feminists like these-

but these days you usually see trans people taking up the mantle. And to add to the fire its usually the "man in a dress" types.

 

[AI_Jolson_2point2]

What does this even mean, do people here really think trans people are just fake or something? Surely you're at least kind of aware of other civil rights movements, they don't really just "go away". Here's what'll happen in America:

1) Republicans will lose (whether a civil war happens or not and whether they win or lose)
2) The retarded moral panic will die down and people will pretend they were just live and let live the whole time
3) All of the annoying xenogender teenagers that piss you off on twitter will grow up
4) the ~1% of people who are trans will be allowed to just live their lives and all the anti-trans complainers will be looked at the way homophobes are.

There is no other path or result, this will be what happens eventually and in the long term, trans people will be a scapegoat every few decades for some other retard movement the way jews and blacks and everyone else is forever.

It is not possible for humans to transition between male and female. It is not possible for any mammal to transion between male and female with current technlogy

 

[libRT]

When being a tranny has no purchase or value that can be exploited. All the degens will likely reappear in another subculture though.

 

[Cloud Somersault]

My understanding is that right now, psychologists agree that there is a mental aspect to sex/gender/whatever that people experience and in some cases, people's minds do not line up with their physical bodies, and right now the best treatment found is through transitioning to alleviate the mental distress that causes them.

This was debunked in pre-War Germany before Trump was even born, so I'm not sure why you decide to wax autistic about the current administration. Psychologists have always been hacks who have at various points recommended electroshock therapy for faggots or lobotomisation for uppity females. But with the benefit of hindsight we can all agree sometimes psychologists are wrong. Or maybe not.

Your "mind" is not separate to your physical body any more than your sense of touch is. It is simply the subjective experience of inhabiting said body and interacting with your external environment. You cannot be born in the wrong body any more than you can be born the wrong species. It just doesn't work that way.

Spoiler: Endocrinology sperging

A male brain and a female brain (or "mind") are different on many levels, but of particular import is androgenic/estrogenic receptor density and its relation to neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin. Giving E to a man or T to a woman is fundamentally going to cause deficiencies in vital neurotransmitters. Hence why depression rates among troons are so sky-high.

Lack of testosterone = shortage of dopamine = anhedonia, listlessness, and depression in the male.
Lack of estrogen = shortage of serotonin = sadness, irritability, and depression in the female.

These are vast oversimplifications but the end result is the same - a worse outcome for the patient. That is the inverse of healthcare. That is institutional harm.

Have you ever noticed that pooners on T never ever handle it well? They always turn into belligerent, emotionally-stunted psychopaths. Such reactions are only ever seen in natal males with either serious personality disorders or excessive quantities of androgens (i.e. through steroid abuse).

Point being, a woman's "mind" cannot handle the amount of T that a normal man's needs to just maintain baseline function. Our "minds" are as hardwired as our genitals, and no amount of bathtub girl juice is ever going to change that.

 

[ManInTheBlarms]

You cannot be born in the wrong body any more than you can be born the wrong species. It just doesn't work that way.

You can have a philosophical issue with the concept if you want but people feel unhappy and miserable, they report a feeling of wrongness about it. Maybe we aren't talking about the same thing here when we say "mind" but it seems pretty obvious that it is affected by all kinds of things, consciously and unconsciously, all the time. And I'm not familiar with nazi Germany's amazing counter-claim research on the subject, I've heard that they just burned all the stuff they didn't like but if there's something I haven't seen I'll check it out.

 

[ManInTheBlarms]

It is not possible for humans to transition between male and female. It is not possible for any mammal to transion between male and female with current technlogy

I dont think most people really care about their chromosomes. The genital surgeries look pretty bad to me but some people seem happy with them. Overwhelmingly when I see trans people online they're satisfied with facial surgeries, more/less body hair and breast growth or reduction. So idk it seems like they can transition pretty effectively for their standards and I'm not sure why we need a concerted campaign to insist otherwise

 

[Cloud Somersault]

You can have a philosophical issue with the concept if you want but people feel unhappy and miserable

Putting aside the very real "social contagion" issue of LGBT-whatever, I can concede there are some people who feel unhappy and miserable. But where I differ in view is that cutting your cock off and scooping out the matter between your legs with a melon-baller is not, in my view, a viable solution to any psychological malady. I realise that makes me sound like a crazy extremist but bear with me.

I explained in my spergy hormone paragraph above that clinically, introducing the wrong hormones into your body will lead to depression. That is guaranteed. You ever hear a man in his fifties (or his wife) complain he doesn't have it anymore? No drive, vim, vigour? That's what you're consigning these poor MTFs to, times ten, forever.

From the FTM perspective it's even more hideous. Testosterone is a lot easier to get than a hysterectomy, so many of them still have functioning uteruses. And your average pooner is still getting fucked and cummed in, vaginal-style. The impact of exogenous testosterone on pregnant women is very well-studied. The outcome is birth defects. Overwhelmingly so, especially in the first trimester.

What you are proposing is, I reiterate, not healthcare. It is a large-scale medical catastrophe for which, in countries with socialised medicine like mine, I will have to foot the bill.

"Gays are different from the blacks, look at nambla! And the blacks are different from women, they have those psycho black panthers!"

Speaking of philosophy, here I am once again forced to take issue. Being a tranny is different from being fat, short, a sperg, a nigger, etc. Because it is not an individual identity - it is a collective one. To be a faggot you just... suck cocks. I do not have to participate in your faggotry in any way for you to be "affirmed" as a faggot.

For you to be a tranny, I am forced to refer to you in a way that contravenes my understanding of objective reality. I am forced to pretend and participate in your fetish. Without my approval, your identity collapses. You are "deadnamed." You are "dysphoric." Without my/others' input, your tranniness dissolves like fresh estradiol powder in pharma-grade castor oil.

Being a tranny in my vicinity is compelling my speech and response in a way that goes way beyond simple social nicety and crosses into thought policing.

And I'm not familiar with nazi Germany's amazing counter-claim research on the subject, I've heard that they just burned all the stuff they didn't like but if there's something I haven't seen I'll check it out.

Perhaps there was a reason they burnt those books?

 

[Anasa Tristis]

The TQ threatens to discredit the whole damn thing, and that terrifies them.

The LGB aren't any less degenerate than the TQ, they're just better at hiding it. Or rather, the TQ are further along the whole "paraphilia escalation thing" than the LGB are.

“My fetish is less damaging to the future of Homo sapiens than yours” isn’t much of a high ground to stand on. Kek.

And although the pendulum doesn’t swing in the exact same way every single time, humanity has been in licentious places like this before and corrections do manifest on their own. It’s gonna be interesting to see how it all shakes out this time. Already there are “The Sexual Revolution was a mistake” and other “anti progress” type musings coming from various corners.

 

[ManInTheBlarms]

You can bring up infinite negative side effects to HRT or surgeries but if people actually feel so despondent with their situation that they accept them, they're clearly making a choice. Never once have I seen anyone claim they actually weren't told about these side effects without having to admit later that they just didn't listen to the doctor when they were told or something, it's very infantilizing to imply that they're just unaware.

Perhaps there was a reason they burnt those books?

Damn the gay little nazi apology routine gets more and more convincing every time it's reposted

For you to be a tranny, I am forced to refer to you in a way that contravenes my understanding of objective reality. I am forced to pretend and participate in your fetish. Without my approval, your identity collapses. You are "deadnamed." You are "dysphoric." Without my/others' input, your tranniness dissolves like fresh estradiol powder in pharma-grade castor oil.

You in particular do not. I think you can probably understand why having a million weirdos obsess over your cock at all hours of the day and go out of their way to demoralize and humiliate you would be pretty miserable though, idk. What I see from trans people, actual ones who aren't just that one "its ma'am" video or the whiny tiktoks, is that they put an ungodly amount of effort into just passing so they dont have people flip their shit on them. If you take issue with saying she to a masculine person then idk why the first option is to talk about how nazis were right actually instead of just not talking to them.

 

[Cloud Somersault]

You can bring up infinite negative side effects to HRT or surgeries but if people actually feel so despondent with their situation that they accept them, they're clearly making a choice. Never once have I seen anyone claim they actually weren't told about these side effects without having to admit later that they just didn't listen to the doctor when they were told or something, it's very infantilizing to imply that they're just unaware.

You vastly overestimate two points:

A) The general state of medical literacy among transgender people. I would urge you to go on YouTube and search out MTFs describing what estrogen did for them. You will find all sorts of interesting claims from "my penis now gets wet like a cis vagina" to "my iris colour literally changed." These are not fringe beliefs either - this is mainstream trans ideology. They really truly suffer from magical thinking.

B) The appropriateness of "infantilisation," given the preponderance of focus on "protect trans youth," "trans kids matter", and the whole debate about puberty blockers, which are just an objectively evil thing and barely even used in conventional medicine anymore. Why this obsession regarding transing young people from the various tranny lobby groups?

Are you proposing that it is sensible to tell a young girl to cut off her barely-budding breasts, but warning her against it is "infantilising?" Some consistency would be nice.

If you take issue with saying she to a masculine person then idk why the first option is to talk about how nazis were right actually instead of just not talking to them.

Because in many spaces that simply is not a possibility, especially white-collar and professional work. It is frequently demanded of us that we refer to Nigel the bouncer as Lilith (for it is always Lilith) and anything short of that is literal genocide. It is compelled speech, which contravenes basic principles of human rights (at least here in Europe).

Damn the gay little nazi apology routine gets more and more convincing every time it's reposted

Not sure if that was directed at me, since I'm obviously not apologising for anything.

 

[ManInTheBlarms]

Why this obsession regarding transing young people from the various tranny lobby groups?

I imagine a lot of older trans people had really miserable childhoods because of it and want to do what they can to help others have better lives. Maybe puberty blockers are actually terrible, the research seems divided on it last I checked.

Are you proposing that it is sensible to tell a young girl to cut off her barely-budding breasts, but warning her against it is "infantilising?" Some consistency would be nice.

You people vastly overestimate how often this happens, the number of surgeries before 18 is in the double digits. It's just not a huge epidemic problem.

Because in many spaces that simply is not a possibility, especially white-collar and professional work. It is frequently demanded of us that we refer to Nigel the bouncer as Lilith (for it is always Lilith) and anything short of that is literal genocide. It is compelled speech, which contravenes basic principles of human rights (at least here in Europe).

Welcome to having a job. Is it 'compelled speech' when a waiter has to call a guy sir no matter how disheveled and gross he is on a given day? There are expectations for how you talk to people when you're working and a lot of them are built just to keep things running smoothly.

Not sure if that was directed at me, since I'm obviously not apologising for anything.

Why should anyone ever take you seriously or value your thoughts? I get that it's a cute bit or whatever but generally when someone sneaks a snide little hint that they think the most abhorrent and evil things ever are good actually into a conversation, they're just some depraved shitheel who shouldn't be respected.

 

[Cloud Somersault]

Why should anyone ever take you seriously or value your thoughts? I get that it's a cute bit or whatever but generally when someone sneaks a snide little hint that they think the most abhorrent and evil things ever are good actually into a conversation, they're just some depraved shitheel who shouldn't be respected.

I think cutting off perfectly functioning genitals and injecting children with bone-breaking drugs is abhorrent and evil. You evidently believe they are good.

Why should anyone ever take you seriously or value your thoughts?

Spoiler: Tl;dr: you are a faggot

Quickfire answers as you're boring me:

Welcome to having a job. Is it 'compelled speech' when a waiter has to call a guy sir no matter how disheveled and gross he is on a given day?

No. Because no matter how gross or dishevelled a man may be, he remains a man and deserving of the proper honorific.

You people vastly overestimate how often this happens, the number of surgeries before 18 is in the double digits. It's just not a huge epidemic problem.

Irrelevant. It happens, trannies want more of it to happen, and it should not happen at all.

I imagine a lot of older trans people had really miserable childhoods because of it and want to do what they can to help others have better lives.

This view is beyond charitable to the point of being straight-up parody. God bless the trannies for being so selfless about protecting other people's children from growing up normal.

Maybe puberty blockers are actually terrible, the research seems divided on it last I checked.

The research is very clear that they stunt peak bone mass accrual. Having working bones is one of the easiest things to take for granted as a child; less so when you're in your thirties and every movement is agony, forever.

More to the point - why give a drug to literal children on which opinion is "divided" at best?

 

[卐卐卐]

if people actually feel so despondent with their situation that they accept them

Welcome to having a job. Is it 'compelled speech' when a waiter has to call a guy sir

So it's having a job to call bouncers Ma'am (I'm paying to get into the club, I guess I'm employed there too?) , And the answer to CHILDRENS' despondence (depression, dejection, discouragement) is to indulge in a Adult-created sexual power fantasy where they become the pretty prince(ess) they always wanted to be? Que ack ack ack when the self-imposed malaise never ends

 

[ManInTheBlarms]

So it's having a job to call bouncers Ma'am (I'm paying to get into the club, I guess I'm employed there too?)

Clubs aren't obligated to have you in, go patronize chudclub instead if ma'aming a bouncer is out of the question.

And the answer to CHILDRENS' despondence (depression, dejection, discouragement) is to indulge in a Adult-created sexual power fantasy where they become the pretty prince(ess) they always wanted to be?

You're right, actually we need the retarded geriatric president to decide treatment guidelines for psychologists and doctors based on the opinions of even bigger retards

 

[█████████]

I wonder how fat @ManInTheBlarms is in real-life that he feels like he has to resort to fucking trannies instead of real women.

 

[Wot Zit Too Yah0996]

When Rupaul becomes US President, maybe?

 

[ManInTheBlarms]

I wonder how fat @ManInTheBlarms is in real-life that he feels like he has to resort to fucking trannies instead of real women.

"Real women" in my generation are apparently dykie cunts who bitch and cry and spam all over degenerate internet forums

 

[█████████]

"Real women" in my generation are apparently dykie cunts who bitch and cry and spam all over degenerate internet forums

What is the definition of a woman?

 

[Ihasingbibisea1988]

"Real women" in my generation are apparently dykie cunts who bitch and cry and spam all over degenerate internet forums

That still sounds leagues better than troons, also

degenerate

Whats more degenerate, a shitposting site or cutting your dick off for a fetish?