Wheel of Time - Discuss the Books and the Canceled TV Show

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I'm not one to be optimistic, so I'll say nothing overall will change, but they did let go of the woman who oversaw Wheel of Time and Rings of Power just a few months ago. I'm sure the replacement will be equally woke and shit, but won't want to be associated with the projects she greenlit.
 
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The current cope I'm seeing is attempts to convince Sony there's enough hype to swap platforms, in the style of a canceled show getting picked up by another network. Yeah, guys, the problem with that is this is a massive budget show that needs to make a return on investment. Unless they reboot, Rafe already burned that bridge. WOT has a built-in fanbase larger than the one Game of Thrones had when HBO started filming that show. It could print money, though live action would need a larger budget than even GoT's considering all of the extra magical CGI it needs. You know how you guarantee it DOESN'T return that investment? Alienating the book fans in the first five minutes of episode one, killing their hype so they stop marketing it to their normie friends for you.

If Sony executives have any sense (now THAT is up for debate), they'll ignore any astroturfing on surveys these dumb slop-consoomers try to drum up to "save" the show. Viewership sharply declined after episode one, and continued to do so. For a reason.
 
It could print money, though live action would need a larger budget than even GoT's considering all of the extra magical CGI it needs. You know how you guarantee it DOESN'T return that investment? Alienating the book fans in the first five minutes of episode one, killing their hype so they stop marketing it to their normie friends for you.
It really astounds me how jaw-droppingly stupid people in the entertainment industry are. They all clearly desperately want to replicate the success of GoT, but can't parse the completely elementary reasons why it succeeded. First season, iirc, did not have great numbers. Because the people watching it were all book fans, which isn't a huge audience. But when those book fans saw great casting and a faithful script that brought those books to life, they got excited because they had a way to introduce their non-literary friends and family to a story and world that they loved. That's what caused the explosion of interest and exponential growth in viewership. Yet every attempt to replicate it starts off with dreadful casting, butchering of the original work's plot and dialogue, and even rank antagonism towards fans of the books. Then they all stand around scratching their heads and tell themselves that 'fantasy is over'. No, you're just retarded. A random homeless dude who actually liked the series could do a much better job as a showrunner than these morons.
 
Then they all stand around scratching their heads and tell themselves that 'fantasy is over'.
I dont think any genre is ever over. Shows are just bad.

You give me the money and time and I would adapt the eye of the world and have it be a massive hit. Everything is there for a hit you just have to commit to the bit and do it right like Peter Jackson did.
 
I dont think any genre is ever over. Shows are just bad
So anyone want to guess what's next, since surely third times a charm for fantasy adaptations
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I actually have three fantasy series left that I dread will get a tv series/movie one day, 2 might get a adaptation in the near future but one might be saved since it was looking like it was gonna get a fucking CW adaptation but through several divine interventions looks dead and the best kind at that, i.e. one where no one knows who technically has the rights and no one is willing to try and find out.

Rangers apprentice: this is my childhood series I read more then anything else and I still think the first book holds up well for a coming of age story, skydance just got the rights last year after WB sat on it for years
Gotex and Felix: I will argue its the best series in both fantasy and 40k, and unfortunately for everyone amazon is still teasing the 40k series and depending on how that goes it'll either be shit and kill that IP as well, or worst be somewhat profitable and encourage them to raid GWs other IPs
The Black Company: Glen Cook's 1984 grimdark fantasy series was this close to being made into a CW teen drama, and this was when the CW was at it's lowest in terms of quality. All anyone knew is it was being developed by Eliza Dushku (who was supposedly going to play The Lady) and David S. Goyer back in 2017. But lucky for me the CW got sold for $0, the new company canceled almost all of its current and planned shows, Dushku herself retired from acting and producing, and I think that script got nailed to a tree with a silver spike.
So one thing I liked dodged a bullet
 
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Saw the news last night and had to resist popping to the Farms since it was already time to sleep. Tellingly it wasn't an article about the cancellation itself but an aside about how good this would be for Rings of Power.

Because Bezos euthanising a show that's doing largely the same things absolutely means Amazon are willing to keep that train rolling. In the position of the showrunner's superiors they'd have entered the office to find Wheel of Time promotional posters lining the walls with "you could easily be next" written on them.

So anyone want to guess what's next, since surely third times a charm for fantasy adaptations
I continue to fear them throwing some of Tamora Pierce's stuff on the pyre. As YA stuff there's a lower ceiling of adaptation and her cast tended to be moderately multicultural since a lot of them were used to show off the setting. The Circle series literally has a four ethnicity ensemble with multiple cannon lesbians by the end. Someone somewhere is masturbating furiously about how much they could ruin that.
 
So anyone want to guess what's next, since surely third times a charm for fantasy adaptations
Does it have to be Fantasy?

Cause we got James Bond, Warhammer40K...and wasn't Sanderson licking Amazons boots about Wheel of Time because he was trying to get them to make Stormlight Archive?
 
The Black Company: Glen Cook's 1984 grimdark fantasy series was this close to being made into a CW teen drama, and this was when the CW was at it's lowest in terms of quality.
How would the Black Company be a teen drama? It's literally a war story. I never read the sequels so maybe they veer more into typical fantasy fare with what happens at the end of the original trilogy, but nothing there would work with a typical drama.
 
nd wasn't Sanderson licking Amazons boots about Wheel of Time because he was trying to get them to make Stormlight Archive?
Sanderson actually got pretty grumpy about the way WoT was done, or as grumpy as his niceboi persona allows him to be, at any rate. He was particularly appalled about the PerrinWife debacle in episode 1, I remember that much. (I think Perrin is his favorite character?)

In other news, this article reminded me why it is not small minded or cruel to applaud the show's cancellation.

The Tragic Reason Why ‘The Wheel of Time’ Was Cancelled

Moiraine believes that one of five youths from a small village could be the reincarnation of their world’s most powerful wielder of the “One Power.”
Sentences like this, the whole damn article. Bizarre fetishizing of Jennifer Salke as well.

I'm guessing the author isn't a troon, but those are some weird features of her in the picture that popped on the archive version, for some reason. Definitely did a doubletake.
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Sanderson actually got pretty grumpy about the way WoT was done, or as grumpy as his niceboi persona allows him to be, at any rate. He was particularly appalled about the PerrinWife debacle in episode 1, I remember that much. (I think Perrin is his favorite character?)
As someone who helped finish the series and supposedly loved it from a child he was not Grumpy enough.

He should be Hollering like Ethan Ralph at just the first episode.
 
How would the Black Company be a teen drama? It's literally a war story. I never read the sequels so maybe they veer more into typical fantasy fare with what happens at the end of the original trilogy, but nothing there would work with a typical drama.
The WoT adaptation is a testament that you can always twist the original story and shoehorn your own fan fiction into any work.
Also look at Rangs of Powah, that got turned into a Galadriel x Sauron shipping fan fiction, and has nothing of what Tolkien ever wanted.
I've read all the Black Company books, including Silver Spike, and I can definitely see them focusing on some characters and dynamics and making it a teen drama, and that's without even getting to Lady's daughter or Arcana in the latter books.

Never wish for an adaptation of a book you love. They will always rape it to death and with it's corpse do a danse macabre, all the while admonishing the book fans if they don't clap hard enough.
You can never hate these people hard enough.
 
"The one thing I do try to keep an eye out for is /slash/ or KS fiction using my characters. If you want to write erotica, fine. I like reading erotica, sometimes. But if you write erotica using my characters and post it, I WILL find you, and I will come down on you like the Hammer of God. I've found some very raunchy, and very badly written, examples of that, and I don't like it one bit."
-Robert Jordan

Rest in piss, Rafe "Scissorin' Moiraine" "Clam slammin' Aviendha" "Nipple tweaking warders" "Alanna the Slutt" Judkins.
 
The Tragic Reason Why ‘The Wheel of Time’ Was Cancelled
I'm not letting a mere archive stand in tribute to this one, I'm quoting Meghan O'Keefe, who I am astounded to find is not on this site even half a dozen times, in full.

The Wheel of Time was unceremoniously canceled by Prime Video by way of a Friday newsdump, mere hours before a three day holiday weekend. For ardent fans of rebellious and expansive genre storytelling (like me), this was utterly tragic news. In its three season run, The Wheel of Time had managed the unthinkable: remixing Robert Jordan’s behemoth of book series into an enchanting action adventure series that championed queer and female characters alongside its tortured “Dragon Reborn.”

If, like me, you’re also a grizzled veteran of the “streaming wars,” a decade-plus era in which various tech giants dipped their toes into the entertainment world, prompting Hollywood studios to throw money into streaming with the rabid energy of the California gold rush, this also wasn’t a surprise. The Wheel of Time was one of many expensive projects ordered by former Amazon MGM Studios head Jennifer Salke. Two months ago, Salke was ousted from her role after a series of expensive misfires, Amazon pulled the plug on their (expensive) adaptation. Coincidence? Of course not.

Some hardcore Wheel of Time fans might not know the inside baseball of Hollywood boardrooms, but they’re definitely familiar with regime changes. The third season of the Prime Video show even ends with the scheming Red sister Elaida (Shohreh Aghdashloo) toppling the Amyrlin Seat, Siuan Sanche (Sophie Okonedo), in the White Tower of the Aes Sedai. Naturally, Siuan’s allies will be deposed, replaced with Elaida’s cronies. Similarly, after Salke’s exit, comes the natural pruning of her projects. The Wheel of Time is a victim of the streaming wars.


What makes The Wheel of Time so special also is sadly what made its cancellation inevitable. The Wheel of Time was one of many expensive fantasy adaptations ordered by streamers looking to have their own “Game of Thrones” in the 2010s. When Salke took charge of Amazon’s streaming slate in early 2018, she inherited the company’s billion dollar deal with the Tolkien estate to produce five seasons of a Lord of the Rings prequel show. As that project took shape, she also picked up Sony’s nascent Wheel of Time adaptation.


The Wheel of Time finally premiered on Prime Video in late 2021 and told the story of Moiraine Damodred (Rosamund Pike), a magically-powered sister of the Blue Ajah of the Aes Sedai on the hunt for the “Dragon Reborn.” Moiraine believes that one of five youths from a small village could be the reincarnation of their world’s most powerful wielder of the “One Power.” She takes them under her wing, dragging them on a dangerous journey across a vast fantasy landscape.

Like Robert Jordan’s own work, Prime Video’s The Wheel of Time opens as a loving Tolkien pastiche, but soon twists, expands, and morphs into a strange, detail-laden, character-driven saga. The show reached a creative zenith in Season 3, devoting full episodes to Rand al’Thor (Josha Stradowski) and Moiraine’s trippy journeys to the mystic Aiel city of Rhuidean and Perrin Aybarra’s (Marcus Rutherford) defense of the Two Rivers.


The Wheel of Time also took massive creative risks that maybe wouldn’t fly on other paint-by-numbers fantasy productions. Showrunner Rafe Judkins lifted countless bits of queer subtext from Jordan’s novels and pushed them into the forefront of his adaptation. The Aes Sedai were represented by a diverse cast of actresses of all ages, ethnic backgrounds, and body types. Finally, Judkins recognized that it would be literally impossible to adapt all fourteen doorstoppers in the series, so he shuffled the narrative order of some events, combined certain characters, and invented others. Naturally, some book readers rejected this approach, but the show soon nurtured an ardent fanbase all its own.

The Wheel of Time never became the mega hit that some other shows developed under Salke did. It never broke into the zeitgeist like The Boys, Reacher, Fallout, or even The Summer I Turned Pretty. It did, however, create an online fanbase that was welcoming, positive, and inclusive. Every part of the show was infectiously fun, from its exquisite costume and set design to diegetic musical numbers about the “Hills of Tanchico.” (The “hills” are boobs.)

The current head of Prime Video & Amazon MGM Studios, Mike Hopkins, used the word “streamlining” when explaining Salke’s exit in March. A quirky fantasy show that costs a lot of money isn’t going to survive that process. Especially not when Prime Video is already legally obligated to make three more seasons of The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power. The Wheel of Time‘s fate was thus sealed.


Naturally, fans are already launching campaigns for another studio or streamer to pick the show up. The Wheel of Time Season 3 ends on a sour cliffhanger, with Siuan’s non-canonical death and Rand proclaiming himself the Dragon Reborn. Vampy villains Moghedian (Laia Costa) and Liandrin (Kate Fleetwood) have joined forces. The Aiel are torn asunder. There’s still a sword in Tear that Rand needs to get! We haven’t even met Cadsuane!!! THE STORY MUST GO ON!!!

The story might not go on. If The Wheel of Time doesn’t get a miraculous pick up, it will be just the latest example of a creatively exciting show that emerged from the streaming wars only to be cancelled.


Still, it’s not a total wash. The Wheel of Time might have only lasted three seasons, but in those seasons, fans got to hear “Weep for Manetheren” and the “Hills of Tanchico.” We got to witness Mat Cauthon’s (Dónal Finn) blow the Horn of Valere and best cocky princes Galad (Callum Kerr) and Gawyn (Luke Fetherston). We got to see Aviendha (Ayoola Smart) and Elayne make out! Most importantly, though, The Wheel of Time birthed a truly warm online fandom that feels like an oasis of joy amid the internet’s hellscape.

The Wheel of Time‘s time might be up, but there is no beginning or end to that community.
Reading through that makes me think the show was a fantasy version of Doom Patrol. Which I would enjoy quite a bit but is very much not what the books were.
 
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