Containment What will happen when Barb dies?

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In an effort to makes sure barb really has died Cole will return to branchland court to find out that playing the backstreet boys causes barbs dead body to dance. Weekend at Bernie's will ensue with Chris and Cole
 
Male Idiot said:
Could Cole sell the house if there is no will, even without Chris's permission?

Would Cole simply ask Chris to slowly pay his share out of Barb's hoard from his tugboat and keep the house? I imagine that may be easier than selling the whole Hoard-infested place.
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I don't think that Cole would want to make things difficult for Chris. If Chris has his minimal needs met, then he's less likely to seek out Cole for financial assistance, a place to crash, etc. (which, honestly, Cole is under no obligation to provide).
 
Thetan said:
I don't think that Cole would want to make things difficult for Chris. If Chris has his minimal needs met, then he's less likely to seek out Cole for financial assistance, a place to crash, etc. (which, honestly, Cole is under no obligation to provide).
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Cole may be entitled to half the value of the house. If the only way of getting at that is to sell the house, I don't see why he'd just let Chris sit on tens of thousands of dollars of his money just out of pure altruism.

I have no idea what the situation is, though if I were Barb, I'd take the effort to disinherit Cole entirely.
 
AnOminous said:
Cole may be entitled to half the value of the house. If the only way of getting at that is to sell the house, I don't see why he'd just let Chris sit on tens of thousands of dollars of his money just out of pure altruism.
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Yeah, this. I don't know much about Cole's financial situation, but I understand he's supported by his missus. And it's not like he and Chris have ever been particularly close - they haven't even contacted each other in years. So I don't think it could particularly be held against Cole if he decided not to waive sixty grand for the sake of a relative who he barely even knows. I'd go so far as to say that he'd be doing Chris a favour if he forced him to sell up - a smaller apartment would be much easier for Chris to maintain and much more suited to his sedentary, solitary lifestyle.
 
lipitor said:
The real question is what would Chris say his plan is after Barb dies. No one has asked him as far as I know.
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Sweet and Savoury said:
I'm sure if asked he would say his sweetheart would be taking care of that.
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Yeah, his plan was to have a fuckmommy by that time and carry on as normal. And if that didn't work out, Crystal would shoulder the burden. I wonder if part of the reason he got so into the concept of sperm donation a little while back was the realisation that he might be left on his own. Hoping for a tearful reunion twenty years hence. "Crystal... I'm your daddy! Anyway, this toilet won't unblock itself, if you need me I'll be at Impulse."
 
AnOminous said:
Cole may be entitled to half the value of the house. If the only way of getting at that is to sell the house, I don't see why he'd just let Chris sit on tens of thousands of dollars of his money just out of pure altruism.

I have no idea what the situation is, though if I were Barb, I'd take the effort to disinherit Cole entirely.
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This. Cole's wife may pay the bills, but that doesn't mean that Cole would turn down several thousand dollars for no reason. He could have a car he wants, or maybe upgrade the equipment he uses to make videos. Who knows.

Barbara visited Cole only once in 27 years, whereas Cole had made special effort to visit her several times. Cole's wife's family treats him more like family than his own. Chris has recently complained that Cole is ignoring Barb's attempts to get in touch with him. It would seem that Cole has left his mother to her own devices.
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This doesn't necessarily sound like people ready to write each other out of their wills. The Cole emails make me think Barb considers Cole "confused".

Assuming a situation where they both end up with the house, I believe Cole would move to sell it, and if for some reason Chris stops it, I really don't think it'd be that hard to prove that Chris is incapable of making a decision like that himself, especially if he showed up in his Old Lady Sunday Church Outfit garb. It could even end up with Cole putting Chris in a group home, paid for with Chris' half of the house.
 
This is something I haven't seen talked about (and I doubt it's the case) but what if Barb has a Will but it's so old Cole is listed as the sole beneficiary? She isn't really the type to plan ahead and I'm sure she wouldn't spend useful horde money on a bit of paper that will only benefit some one after she's dead because she won't be there to sort out the mess she created.
 
Ravenor said:
This is something I haven't seen talked about (and I doubt it's the case) but what if Barb has a Will but it's so old Cole is listed as the sole beneficiary? She isn't really the type to plan ahead and I'm sure she wouldn't spend useful horde money on a bit of paper that will only benefit some one after she's dead because she won't be there to sort out the mess she created.
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Bob likely did the estate planning while he was still alive. Remember, if Barb lost a dime to Chris's Half-Siblings, we'd have heard about it. Barb would have complained non-stop and Chris would at least have mentioned it.
 
JFKdestroyer said:
Assuming a situation where they both end up with the house, I believe Cole would move to sell it, and if for some reason Chris stops it, I really don't think it'd be that hard to prove that Chris is incapable of making a decision like that himself, especially if he showed up in his Old Lady Sunday Church Outfit garb. It could even end up with Cole putting Chris in a group home, paid for with Chris' half of the house.
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Getting power of attorney over someone against their will is extremely difficult. It's not that if you just look weird, they'll go "lol, you lose your rights". You actually have to meet pretty stringent standards, and autism as mild as Chris' doesn't qualify. As it stands, Chris is a full adult with all the rights that comes with. He can't be put into a group home against his will.

Cole could try to force a sale or something. Or I think he might be able to take out a mortgage on the property (if there isn't one there already), get his share of the money, and then let Chris have what's left.
 
Marvin said:
Or I think he might be able to take out a mortgage on the property (if there isn't one there already), get his share of the money, and then let Chris have what's left.
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Chris would agree to that. "You want to get some money, but I get to keep living here? And I don't have to deal with this 'more guage' thing in the immediate future? You got a deal, bro!"
 
Marvin said:
Cole could try to force a sale or something. Or I think he might be able to take out a mortgage on the property (if there isn't one there already), get his share of the money, and then let Chris have what's left.
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Chris would have to agree to that.

Alec Benson Leary said:
Chris would agree to that. "You want to get some money, but I get to keep living here? And I don't have to deal with this 'more guage' thing in the immediate future? You got a deal, bro!"
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Well, if that were done, Chris would have to pay the mortgage. It's basically Chris buying Cole out. If Chris doesn't have half the value of the house on hand, what they could do is this: they take out a mortgage, borrowing half the equity in the house. Cole receives the borrowed money. He then signs his ownership of the house over to Chris. Chris then owns the house and is responsible for the mortgage.

The tricky part is that they both need to agree to it. If they can't agree on exactly how much money Cole walks away with, they can't do it. The next thing they could try is to sell it.

If there is a sale, Chris could take out a mortgage and pay Cole half of the sale price and buy the house. The upshot of it would be similar, as he would only have to buy half of it. But it makes agreeing on Cole's share of the money a little easier, since the house's value would be determined on the open market. But there would be the costs associated with preparing and listing a property.

Of course that also could be complicated. Mostly by Chris being ornery. For one thing, Chris could refuse to put the house up for sale, or do any cleaning or maintenance for the sale. Both parties have to agree to any sale. So if someone else comes in and offers $150,000, Chris could just say "nope, not interested".

Basically, if Chris owns half the house, he can live there, unless Cole gets a court to say otherwise. If they can't agree on either of those two options, Cole almost certainly could get that order. He owns an asset which he is unable to use or divest himself from because it is entangled with an asset that Chris owns. The court will force a sale to disentangle them. The main problem with that is that this is expensive. Not only are there the court costs, but the sale has to be managed from start to finish by someone the court appoints. This person is usually a lawyer, who is paid out of the proceeds of the sale before Chris and Cole get anything.

Basically, the more easily they agree, the larger the total pot is they splity. If one of them, probably Chris, is really ornery, there are recourses. But they are costly.

*this is based on my experience in a somewhat related situation in Canada. I am assuming that US/Virginia law operates somewhat similarly. A preliminary google search suggests my assumption is correct.
 
timtommy said:
Of course that also could be complicated. Mostly by Chris being ornery. For one thing, Chris could refuse to put the house up for sale, or do any cleaning or maintenance for the sale. Both parties have to agree to any sale. So if someone else comes in and offers $150,000, Chris could just say "nope, not interested".
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Actually, he couldn't. Even someone who owns a very small interest in a property can force the sale of the entire property. This often happens in families who don't have wills, where some distant relative swoops in and forces a sale. It's not like you can just get 1/16 of a house. You either live in it or rent it out or it's useless to you. People don't want to wait for 30 years (or until after they're dead) to get to their money.

It is also rarely practical simply to split the actual property itself. Even in the rare case where you have something like a perfectly rectangular property, usually part of it is worth more than the other part. Maybe it has standing water on it. Maybe it floods in the spring.

So no, Chris can't just indefinitely sit on Cole's money for the rest of his life. Sure, things like this can be slowed down, but if Cole has any ownership interest in the property he can eventually force a sale. The fact that the decaying barbage hoard is damaging the house's value would justify speeding it up, for that matter.

What he can't do is have Chris locked up. He's considered a competent adult for those purposes and could easily demonstrate that level of competence if called upon to do so. It doesn't take much.
 
AnOminous said:
Actually, he couldn't. Even someone who owns a very small interest in a property can force the sale of the entire property. This often happens in families who don't have wills, where some distant relative swoops in and forces a sale. It's not like you can just get 1/16 of a house. You either live in it or rent it out or it's useless to you. People don't want to wait for 30 years (or until after they're dead) to get to their money.

It is also rarely practical simply to split the actual property itself. Even in the rare case where you have something like a perfectly rectangular property, usually part of it is worth more than the other part. Maybe it has standing water on it. Maybe it floods in the spring.

So no, Chris can't just indefinitely sit on Cole's money for the rest of his life. Sure, things like this can be slowed down, but if Cole has any ownership interest in the property he can eventually force a sale. The fact that the decaying barbage hoard is damaging the house's value would justify speeding it up, for that matter.

What he can't do is have Chris locked up. He's considered a competent adult for those purposes and could easily demonstrate that level of competence if called upon to do so. It doesn't take much.
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Right. What I was trying to say is that to force a sale, Cole has to use the court system. And that is costly. Chris has the ability to make things a real pain in the ass for Cole, and really cut into Cole's inheritance.

Of course, he would be costing himself at the same time.
 
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