What has American conservatism accomplished? - What specifically has been conserved and what are the successful conservative holdouts?

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American conservatives have accomplished the impressive feat of consistently losing almost every major political battle for the past century or so. Which is to be expected, the political paradigm of democratic societies favor left/progressive political formulas over conservative ones. But the term is something of an oxymoron as American "conservatives" are liberals themselves. They fight to preserve the fundamentally anti-hierarchical (read: anti-conservative) traditions of what is a fundamentally liberal nation.
 
The Blue Morpho said:
American conservatives have accomplished the impressive feat of consistently losing almost every major political battle for the past century or so. Which is to be expected, the political paradigm of democratic societies favor left/progressive political formulas over conservative ones. But the term is something of an oxymoron as American "conservatives" are liberals themselves. They fight to preserve the fundamentally anti-hierarchical (read: anti-conservative) traditions of what is a fundamentally liberal nation.
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The terms are relative in regards to what society you're in. But people often like to say "Washington was a liberal" but people don't understand that classical liberalism and Enlightenment values are anathema to modern day progressive policies, which seem to put the state and lack of personal responsibility above all else.
 
Duke Nukem said:
The terms are relative in regards to what society you're in. But people often like to say "Washington was a liberal" but people don't understand that classical liberalism and Enlightenment values are anathema to modern day progressive policies, which seem to put the state and lack of personal responsibility above all else.
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I would argue that classical liberalism and Enlightenment values inevitably lead to modern day progressive values, and as classical liberal/Enlightenment values are fundamentally disruptive to social order any attempt to preserve them as a sort of conservative status quo is self-defeating as they always drift left over time.
 
The Blue Morpho said:
I would argue that classical liberalism and Enlightenment values inevitably lead to modern day progressive values, and as classical liberal/Enlightenment values are fundamentally disruptive to social order any attempt to preserve them as a sort of conservative status quo is self-defeating as they always drift left over time.
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What values do modern day progressives even have? Other than wiping their asses with the Bill of Rights at every given opportunity, of course.
 
Duke Nukem said:
What values do modern day progressives even have? Other than wiping their asses with the Bill of Rights at every given opportunity, of course.
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Whig history. The notion that history moves in a straight, linear fashion upwards and onward from barbarity and ignorance into civilization and enlightenment. Which is why, despite always changing and evolving in the particulars, progressivism always maintains a similar character of deconstruction and critique. Which is also why the retrograde conservatives who act as speed bumps on this trajectory are to be detested and marginalized.
 
Sexy Senior Citizen said:
Progressives make the status quo progressively worse.

Conservatives constantly conserve the shitty status quo.
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The modern American Republican party only exists to ever so slightly slow down the progressives, and yearns for the progressive policies of 5 years ago.

They "conserve" nothing of value.
 
Well see here ...

They successfully concentrated and defended the power of corporations, and those corporations turned on them.

Now they are the counter culture, but all the culture is strange and alienating to them.
 
Lately it seems that all the conservatives have managed to do is merely slow down America sliding into Clown World.

The Blue Morpho said:
Whig history.
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It's why the woke think anything new is always better, and why it seems SJWs are trying to "cancel" the world before Current Year.

It's also why they may call themselves "progressives", and why I call the woke cult "The Cult of Progress"* as well.

*(after "The Cult of Reason" from the French Revolution)
 
I am not even blaming conservatism as an ideology trying to preserve the "rights" of the rich and their corporate tools to accumulate immense wealth at any costs while lying to the plebe that there might be changes in the social realm too.
I blame the -pedes and chuds for being absolute retards that buy the story.
What's the alternative, even?
"Are you some sort of librul?!? Worse, are you some sort of a glowie? Why you no fat? How much did that Garmin cost? Why are you exercising? Have you looked at conservative gatherings? You're not a real American!"
 
The Blue Morpho said:
I would argue that classical liberalism and Enlightenment values inevitably lead to modern day progressive values, and as classical liberal/Enlightenment values are fundamentally disruptive to social order any attempt to preserve them as a sort of conservative status quo is self-defeating as they always drift left over time.
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Classical liberal values in and of themselves aren't disruptive at all, they were the norm for human societies prior to the Industrial Revolution. The presence of the church and state in people's lives was minimal with most matters settled either personally or at the level of the local community.

The Industrial Revolution, urbanization, and the concept of limited liability played a bigger role than anything. The hellish conditions of these mines, factories and cities and exploitation of workers by monopolies and oligopolies laid the foundations for socialist policies and an interventionist role for the government.

It could even just be urbanization and high population density that causes it. A lot of similar things happened during the Roman era on an even more serious scale.
 
Agamemnon Busmalis said:
Classical liberal values in and of themselves aren't disruptive at all, they were the norm for human societies prior to the Industrial Revolution. The presence of the church and state in people's lives was minimal with most matters settled either personally or at the level of the local community.

The Industrial Revolution, urbanization, and the concept of limited liability played a bigger role than anything. The hellish conditions of these mines, factories and cities and exploitation of workers by monopolies and oligopolies laid the foundations for socialist policies and an interventionist role for the government.

It could even just be urbanization and high population density that causes it. A lot of similar things happened during the Roman era on an even more serious scale.
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Classical liberal values are individualistic in their orientation. This is inherently disruptive to social order and is the root of the sort of subversive, solipsistic self-worship that we see in modern day progressive liberalism. This is true even if these sorts of values are desirable when properly reigned in.

Obviously the Industrial Revolution and urbanization played a large role in making people more unsuitable to thrive under liberal institutions. By Classical Liberalism's own presuppositions it requires economically independent, rational individuals who largely agree on most cultural and ethical issues to function correctly. Urbanization and Industrialization wreak havoc on the conditions which would create a people with these characteristics, and liberalism ceases to be the fruit of a vibrant civilization and instead becomes an albatross on a withering vine.
 
The Blue Morpho said:
Classical liberal values are individualistic in their orientation. This is inherently disruptive to social order and is the root of the sort of subversive, solipsistic self-worship that we see in modern day progressive liberalism. This is true even if these sorts of values are desirable when properly reigned in.
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I agree. It's impossible to have these values work without the concept of human dignity in itself, i.e. each person loved by and created in the image of God irrespective of their abilities or wealth. That balances individualism and self-interest with the responsibilities to act morally and use our resources and abilities to help others.

If you take that away, it becomes myopic selfishness and trust breaks down quickly leading to a broken society. Great examples of this in action are how people nearly drove the bald eagle and American bison to extinction through pollution and ruthless exploitation for profit.
The Blue Morpho said:
Obviously the Industrial Revolution and urbanization played a large role in making people more unsuitable to thrive under liberal institutions. By Classical Liberalism's own presuppositions it requires economically independent, rational individuals who largely agree on most cultural and ethical issues to function correctly. Urbanization and Industrialization wreak havoc on the conditions which would create a people with these characteristics, and liberalism ceases to be the fruit of a vibrant civilization and instead becomes an albatross on a withering vine.
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Exactly. These things can only work in small communities where nobody is truly a stranger. I think that's a sign this is the most natural way of human existence...how we can get back to that, I don't know, but even now people do it to a degree by moving to or always living in suburban and rural areas.

I also think this plays a role in why birth rates have dropped so much in these developed countries.
 
Conservatives have never accomplished anything, this is not a barb against them, its in the name. Other ideologies come up with new ideas and conservatives pick the most pragmatic ones and "conserve" these ideas for years to come, even if they will never admit that the ideas came from other ideological groups current and past.

Every other ideological camp that I have ever heard about has lots of ideas that are batshit insane and/or impractical. So if a conservative agrees with you, that means it is something that can be codified into law realistically and not bring the entire nation to its knees.

Thus, we need liberals to come up with the ideas, and we need conservatives to weed out the good ideas from the bad. Both are important, there is nothing worse than one party rule, and the US founders have done all they can to prevent any one group from seizing government, Precautions that the other founders of the current western countries have never taken seriously.

Also, Israel?, who the fuck cares about Israel? They claim to be superior to the sandniggers, so let them prove it.
 
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