What does "defund the police" mean? - The Real Story is that Vox Defends the Police!

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Growing calls to “defund the police,” explained

Calls to restrict police funding have grown with protests and GOP-imposed austerity.

By Matthew Yglesias@mattyglesiasmatt@vox.com Jun 3, 2020, 10:30am EDT


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Police detain demonstrators for being in the street during a protest on May 30 in Atlanta, Georgia. Elijah Nouvelage/Getty Images

Amid the anti-police brutality protests across the country, a once-obscure slogan is gaining traction: Defund the police.
The Working Families Party, an institutionalized progressive movement anchored on the left flank of the Democratic Party, especially in New York, and the Sunrise Movement, a climate-focused left-wing youth organization, tweeted the call on May 31.
Defund the police. https://t.co/EHguZFVL2e
— Sunrise Movement (@sunrisemvmt) May 31, 2020
A three-word slogan is not a detailed policy agenda, and not everyone using the slogan agrees on the details. The basic idea, though, is less that policing budgets should be literally zeroed out than that there should be a massive restructuring of public spending priorities.
Brian Highsmith, writing in the American Prospect, calls for “significant, permanent reductions to existing policing and carceral infrastructures.” Sarah Jones in New York magazine says that in the contemporary United States, “the punitive impulse [the police] embody saturates nearly every facet of American life,” where officers “take the place of social workers and emergency medical personnel and welfare caseworkers, and when they kill, we let them replace judges and juries, too.”
This idea in its most grandiose forms seems unlikely to win the day. But as mainstream Democrats try to respond to the protests and the swirl of vandalism and police misconduct that’s surrounded them, they are likely to find themselves confronted with questions about police budgets.
The idea might be dismissed as politically untenable or lacking public policy backing. But it interacts in a potent way with the other crisis of the moment — the Covid-19 pandemic, which has pushed state and local government budgets into crisis.
Before Floyd’s death, Democrats had a clear position on these crises: Congress should appropriate huge sums of money, as provided for in the HEROES Act, to prevent layoffs of teachers, firefighters, cops, librarians, and other local government workers. But with Senate Republicans blocking action on state budget relief, someone is going to get laid off. And many criminal justice reform activists are bold about saying it should be the police.


What “defunding” police means in practice
In congressional budget-speak, to “defund” something normally means to reduce appropriations to zero dollars, thus eliminating it.
And there are people, like Brooklyn College sociologist Alex Vitale, who favor police abolition. In practice, however, while Vitale supports legalizing a wide range of currently illegal activity, he still envisions things like “sex work that’s regulated just like any other business.” At some level, the way business regulation works is that if you’re sufficiently defiant of the rules, the police will lock you up. And under questioning from Mother Jones’s Madison Pauly, Vitale is cagey about questions like how we are going to handle murders in a zero-police society.
Police abolitionists are proposing a scaling-back of the scope of police activities that is far outside the horizon of current political possibility, so they may not articulate the most fine-grained details.
The “defund” slogan dances ambiguously between abolition-type schemes and just saying officials should spend less money on policing at the margins. The Black Lives Matters #DefundThePolice explainer page argues that “law enforcement doesn’t protect or save our lives. They often threaten and take them.” By contrast, a Justin Brooks op-ed at the Appeal titled “Defund the Police Now” is an extended argument for spending somewhat less money on crime control and somewhat more on social services, as a win-win resulting in less crime, less punishment, and less police violence against civilians.
New York state Sen. Julia Salazar, similarly, describes herself as an advocate of defunding the police, by which she means shifting some money into social services:
I think we need to consider a divest/invest model. When we look at their resources, and how they’re deploying them violently and recklessly, it makes the case even stronger for reducing their budget, and then using those funds for social services, and specifically for things that New Yorkers would want the police to do but the police are not currently doing: harm reduction, community-based public safety.
In the day-to-day of politics, there are always arguments about the details of municipal budget priorities. In that sense, “defunding” the police is more of an effort to convince the public and the political system to shift its priorities.
Historically, police are popular
In Gallup’s annual polls of public confidence in institutions, “the police” rank high — below the military and small businesses — with ratings that soar above the Supreme Court, newspapers, Congress, or other entities that might check them.
Confidence in policing appears to be in gradual long-term decline, and Gallup does these polls every June, so we don’t yet know if the most recent unrest will change opinions. But historically, the police have been a potent force politically, which helps explain why police unions are politically powerful even as they take stands that tend to be at odds with the racially progressive views of the big cities where they often work.
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Gallup
Similarly, when Vox and Civis Analytics polled this question in the winter of 2018-2019, large majorities of Americans of all racial groups expressed a favorable opinion of their local police department and were supportive of the idea of appropriating money to hire more police officers and dispatch them to high-crime neighborhoods.
police_charts.png

A 2015 Gallup poll showed that among African Americans, those who feel they’ve been treated unfairly by the police are more likely than those who don’t to favor an increased police presence in their neighborhood.
In 2015, black adults who felt cops treated black people unfairly were more likely to want an increased police presence than those who said they felt they were treated fairly https://t.co/zBfzIN4Ehv pic.twitter.com/w8HmYZXu5e
— Rachel Cohen (@rmc031) May 30, 2020
These views about policing may change in response to recent protests and police violence. But the 2015 poll suggests that many African Americans view inadequate protection and inadequate service levels as part of the larger pattern of mistreatment.
Harvard Law professor Randall Kennedy’s 1998 book Race, Crime, and the Law argues that underpolicing of black neighborhoods and underprotection of black crime victims is a critical but underconsidered dimension of racial inequity in the United States.
Jill Leovy’s more recent book, Ghettoside: A True Story of Murder in America, documents a vicious cycle. Clearance rates for serious crimes like murder are much lower in black neighborhoods, creating a situation in which black civilians don’t feel that it’s safe to cooperate with the police. That frustrates police officers and makes it difficult to clear cases. Black civilians then encounter police presence primarily in the form of aggressive enforcement of small-bore infractions, rather than as protecting people from serious violence.
A strain of thought among black Americans appears to have been more in line with those kinds of narratives than with radical police abolitionism. And that created a terrain in which the clear political safe space for Democrats was to push for better policing, rather than less policing.
Protesters want big change
The current round of demonstrations was set off by the killing of George Floyd, an incident of police misconduct so egregious that most everyone in American politics has denounced it.
But while former officer Derek Chauvin is under arrest, the protests are tackling a wide array of diffuse grievances related to race and policing. Police officers in turn have in many cases responded to the protests by acting less as neutral public servants than as well-equipped counterprotesters, using the cover of law and occasional looting incidents to mount a broad crackdown on public protest.
In the face of both long-simmering anger and the radicalization dynamic set off by abusive police conduct in the face of protest, it’s natural that many people would like to rally behind a big idea and an eschatological vision of change, rather than a laundry list of incremental reforms.
Police officers, police chiefs, and police unions, meanwhile, have been fairly clear that they don’t think there’s any kind of problem that merits any discussion of solutions. Most voters have mixed feelings, and say that while protester grievances are merited, they also like their local police. But those who don’t like their local police want a big gesture of accountability.
Results of new Morning Consult + Monmouth polls: Americans...
-Think protesters have good reason to be angry about racial injustice
-Think police are more likely to use excessive force against Black people
-Like their local police
-Are ok with using military to stop riots
— Kristen Soltis Anderson (@KSoltisAnderson) June 2, 2020
“Defund the police” fits the bill, especially because the Covid-19 pandemic has made some kind of major reworking of budget priorities essentially inevitable.
State and local budgets are in crisis
Economic downturns always hurt state and local government budgets.
But the widespread business closures of this spring were a particularly intense and devastating form of downturn. And certain forms of activity that tend to be particularly highly taxed — in particular, drinking in bars, staying in hotels, and renting cars — is likely to stay depressed for a long time even under very optimistic pandemic scenarios.
The result is that politicians are now facing tough budgetary trade-offs. The decision that mayors in even liberal cities like Los Angeles and New York were making as of early May was to propose deep cuts in essentially every major category except the police.
But it’s not as though huge cuts in youth services, housing, public health, or education are popular, either. Even in a world where broad ideological hostility to spending money on police departments is relatively rare, a situation in which cutting police spending is the only way to save funding for other agencies naturally creates a broader coalition for spending less on the cops.
We don’t yet really know what national opinion thinks of the protests and disorder that have engulfed the country since those initial proposals were made. But we do know that there’s a widespread sentiment in left-of-center circles — see my colleagues Dylan Scott and Ezra Klein for illustrative examples — that police departments’ conduct during the past week has mostly reflected poorly on them.
You might expect big cities whose electorates are well left of center to consider a more equitable distribution of budget cuts. There’s a huge difference between “cut the police budget somewhat because all agencies are facing cuts because of the pandemic” and a broad mandate to “defund the police.” But police abolitionist rhetoric that would have been a total nonstarter in February has some real bite in June.
It is, however, worth emphasizing that the budget crisis is something the federal government could easily avoid.


We have better choices than this
If you look at expert recommendations for improving policing in the United States, calls for broad-based budget cuts are often not on the list. And by the same token, the evidence that putting more cops on the beat helps reduce crime is fairly overwhelming.
That said, slashing spending on schools or parks or transportation isn’t good policy either.
When the overall labor market is robust, cutting back on wasteful or ineffective government services can be broadly helpful because it helps reallocate resources to more productive sectors of the economy. What’s happening right now, however, is that the unemployment rate is about 20 percent. Anyone furloughed from working in a library or a rec center or a fire department or a school or a police department adds to the ranks of the jobless.
At the same time, the interest rate paid on federal debt is currently less than the overall rate of price inflation — meaning Congress can essentially borrow money for less than nothing.
The obvious economic policy solution would be to follow House Democrats’ proposal to send huge sums of money to state and local governments, allowing them to avoid making big cuts at a sensitive time. Then reforms to police procedures — different training, different enforcement priorities, more transparency and accountability — could be discussed as a life-or-death matter about the security of communities, rather than as a desperate scramble for scarce funding. Senate Republicans, however, insist they don’t want to deliver aid on large scale, which is going to force jurisdictions everywhere into sharp cuts to something — likely including police departments along with everything else.
 
Some day these cities will be out from under control of neo Nazi ReTHUGlicans and they will be able to reform the police and create the urban utopias they dream of. Can we all take a second to imagine what a city like Minneapolis would look like if it had 40-50 years of Democratic administrations?

Now that I have my autism out of the way. The mass exodus of the tax base from inner cities after the '68 riots combined with the economic downturn of the 70s made metropolitan cities the dingy and crime ridden shitholes we know from so many great B movies of the era. Wuflu has already tanked the economy and I'm not sure what kind of person is going to stay and rebuild after the riots in a lot of these places. It's already clear the people looting and burning don't care who you are or what you stand for. All they want is your shit. I don't even know how I could reopen and look customers in the eye without becoming overwhelmed with anger and disgust.

There were the race riots in '68, then Rodney King riots in '92, the BLM riots in '15-16, and now the Floyd riots. I don't see any reason why the riots stop since politicians, companies, celebrities, etc seem to be capitulating to them. What is going to set it off next time? The problems aren't going to get solved otherwise they would have at some point in the last 50 years in these places. Even if the riots don't accelerate, who is going to spend the next 5-10 years rebuilding their destroyed business only to watch it burn again? We're going to get to watch some of these cities go to East St. Louis or Gary, IN tier.
 
Vitale is cagey about questions like how we are going to handle murders in a zero-police society
No shit.

It's always "demand stupid shit, let everyone else deal with the consequences" with these people. They even know the world will never work like their bizarre fever dream of a world works.
 
You forgot the best part:
Support Vox’s explanatory journalism
The article is pure insanity of giving multiple "interpretations" to a very obvious and simple shitty idea, with the interpretations themselves being just as shitty, insanely complex and "backed" by retarded theories.
But a male Vox journo would likely really want to remove the police when he inevitably exposed as a rapist.
 
This is just a neoliberal spin on the “defund the police” slogan. You can literally ask them and they’ll tell you they want no police at all, not just new training and less but still some funding.
It’s going to be the same thing as occupy Wall Street. The insane fringe is going to make insane demands, be all over the place what they want, then everyone else gets bored and goes home.
 
What does "end all incarceration immediately" really mean?

No shit.

It's always "demand stupid shit, let everyone else deal with the consequences" with these people. They even know the world will never work like their bizarre fever dream of a world works.
There are no murders in the new utopia, comrade. Murder is the fault of capitalism, and now that capitalism is gone, there can be no murder.
 
Daily reminder that crime will literally disappear if we get rid of the police and give everyone welfare and free finger painting classes.

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These people are insane.
 
Daily reminder that crime will literally disappear if we get rid of the police and give everyone welfare and free finger painting classes.

View attachment 1353874

These people are insane.
:story:

I love how they boil down everything to infantile linear logic "A leads to B, B leads to C" whereas in real life a chart of cause and effect detailing basic civic problems looks more like a web woven by an OCD spider.

Also, let's magically handwave away social constants like greed, corruption, nepotism, tribalism, etc.
 
Daily reminder that crime will literally disappear if we get rid of the police and give everyone welfare and free finger painting classes.

View attachment 1353874

These people are insane.
These niggers dont even know their comics either. Lots of supervillains do their shit even though they're wealthy as fuck. Free gibs aint gonna stop Lex Luthor.
 
:story:

I love how they boil down everything to infantile linear logic "A leads to B, B leads to C" whereas in real life a chart of cause and effect detailing basic civic problems looks more like a web woven by an OCD spider.

Also, let's magically handwave away social constants like greed, corruption, nepotism, tribalism, etc.
Personally I'd like to see these people who think it'd be a great idea to get rid of cops explain how their cop free world would handle rape. Right now it's the cops with guns, rape kits, and forensic experts, and the prisons with the bars that are deterring rapists. They do an imperfect job, but I'd be curious to see these people explain how things would be better if all rapists currently behind bars were released and there was no one even attempting to track down and incarcerate rapists to prevent them from victimizing additional people. Additionally if any of these people who want no cops or prisons also call people incel; I'd like to see them explain what will stop all those "incels" they hate from going out and remedying their celibacy with unwilling women if there are no longer cops to be feared.
 
Personally I'd like to see these people who think it'd be a great idea to get rid of cops explain how their cop free world would handle rape. Right now it's the cops with guns, rape kits, and forensic experts, and the prisons with the bars that are deterring rapists. They do an imperfect job, but I'd be curious to see these people explain how things would be better if all rapists currently behind bars were released and there was no one even attempting to track down and incarcerate rapists to prevent them from victimizing additional people.
If rapists took extra ap classes when they were in high school maybe they wouldn't have gotten so rapey.
 
Yglesias apparently had a bit of a meltdown on this topic on Twitter - possibly fighting with others at Vox. Certain things he's said here and there indicate his progressive programming is incomplete, and he has doubts about the cause. Which isn't to say he's not a shill for the left at one of the most objectionable major sites out there, but there are signs one day he might finally find himself unable to keep up the pretence anymore.
 
Yglesias apparently had a bit of a meltdown on this topic on Twitter - possibly fighting with others at Vox. Certain things he's said here and there indicate his progressive programming is incomplete, and he has doubts about the cause. Which isn't to say he's not a shill for the left at one of the most objectionable major sites out there, but there are signs one day he might finally find himself unable to keep up the pretence anymore.

Its gotta be exhausting being a progressive lefty. You have to keep up appearances 24/7, and one slip up gets you excommunicated from the church.
 
The mental gymnastics needed to try and make abolishing the cops palatable are kind of impressive. I almost feel bad for the spin doctors that have to try and sell every fresh spore of exceptionalism academia and the mob come up with and tone it down enough for consumption.
 
Personally I'd like to see these people who think it'd be a great idea to get rid of cops explain how their cop free world would handle rape. Right now it's the cops with guns, rape kits, and forensic experts, and the prisons with the bars that are deterring rapists. They do an imperfect job, but I'd be curious to see these people explain how things would be better if all rapists currently behind bars were released and there was no one even attempting to track down and incarcerate rapists to prevent them from victimizing additional people. Additionally if any of these people who want no cops or prisons also call people incel; I'd like to see them explain what will stop all those "incels" they hate from going out and remedying their celibacy with unwilling women if there are no longer cops to be feared.
Not to mention those "alt-right" figures who would like to make a modern Holocaust. Just tell them that all the "angry white men" in the world would have nothing really stopping them from the glorious 1488 world they talk about as they systematically round up and execute blacks, Latinos, and Jews.
 
Daily reminder that crime will literally disappear if we get rid of the police and give everyone welfare and free finger painting classes.
All just neo-maoist bullshit to get enough support to take power.

Once in control you can bet their red guards will be more brutal than any police.
 
Daily reminder that crime will literally disappear if we get rid of the police and give everyone welfare and free finger painting classes.

View attachment 1353874

These people are insane.


@A_throwaway_name62919

I saw a post by a commitard saying that RAPE isn't really a crime, it's something that can be settled by arbitration after the fact, by teaching women better "de-escalation" techniques and better "community health".
*I forgot to add : that de-stigmatizing rape, de-stigmatizing STDs and de-stigmatizing women's sexual agency will all help the issue of rape. It will cease to exist.

If we just teach women that their bodies NEED to be raped, RAPE WILL DISAPPEAR!

That murders and assaults can be better dealt with with rehabilitation than prison. Did you know that art therapy helps potential murderers more than prison does?

But that bigger crimes that deserve punishment in their eyes was - I'm not even kidding - bigotry, racist micro aggressions and anti-transness. These deserve prison and re-education.

Literally, a woman refusing to fuck a troon was "violence". Did you also know that children aren't molested? They just aren't legally able to consent under these bigoted Western laws. Molestation and child abuse didn't ever occur until whitey and capitalism came along.

I wish I was kidding but this is shit they actually believe.
 
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