Were Native Americans basically cavemen?

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Sparkletor 2.0

Sparkletor 2.0

Some people call me Spakletor
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Were Indians stone age primitive savages who believed in magic and didn't even have the wheel, or were they a highly advanced culturally rich society that was unjustly colonized by white Europeans?
 
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Party Hat Wurmple said:
Basically?? Nigga the Pueblos literally lived in cliff alcoves.
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gildersleeve said:
The peoples inhabiting the southwest during a wet period actually built stone dwellings. Alongside the carved cliff dwellings associated with the Anasazi.
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If you both were talking about Mesa verde you should show off photos because it looks really cool. Like something from Indiana Jones.
DB3AA61D-FEA9-4062-8AFF-136FDD87994C.jpeg 5C2FAD5B-7D0E-446D-B28B-01FC40334AD2.jpeg 0FD8DFEE-69DF-41A5-8C46-551F92BABFA9.jpeg
 
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Both and internally diverse?

Firstly, while I do not agree with the libtard thing of arguing that all cultures are special snowflakes who just value different things, they legitimately were much more advanced in certain ways (agriculture), or at least on par (Mayan astronomy), and there were valid reasons they didn't implement things like wheels. The Mesoamericans lived in a filthy swamp/jungle and the Andeans in very hilly terrain. It wasn't that helpful.

As for what they did, Iroquoians and Muscogeans (so, Iroquois, Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, Seminole) were notably more advanced and open to technological development than most of the people around them, were civilized people when Hernando de Soto came across them and quickly rebuilt and modernized under White pressure. The Cherokee straight up pulled a Meiji Restoration, minus the military success part, which has something to do with being outnumbered over 100 to 1.

The Mesoamericans and Andeas were impressive. Many Southwestern peoples were impressive.

The Indians that were the biggest savages were also the ones that people are most enamored by, which is how retarded questions like OP's come about. Plains Indians were cavemen with horses.

Metal is also overrated. Obviously you won't get real far down the IRL tech tree without developing it, but it too is one of those things that's a lot more situational than people realize. Mesoamericans made clubs studded with obsidian that were reportedly sharp like a sword. Mesoamericans and Incas both wore cotton gambesons that the Spanish (like Americans ditching their M16s in Vietnam) switched to when they realized that they were thick enough and - importantly - so much more lightweight and comfortable that it made more sense to wear those.

The "steel" aspect of Guns, Germs and Steel is overrated. So is the "guns" aspect at the start, when guns still meant clunky arquebuses for punching through metal armor. Arquebuses and cannons they never developed because they never had any steel armor they needed to punch through.

The most damning thing to me about Indians is that they never seemed to bother, on a large scale, to learn the crafts of making things like firearms for themselves. They'd either remain part of European proxy wars and global politics, or they'd reject it all and go full millennarian retard mode and try to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Making a dedicated effort to create native industries in these things seemed to be beyond them, only comes up when Whites (like the American civilization program) actively promoted it.
 
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The Mississippi culture were also a centralized agricultural society that built built dirt mounds which presumably served similar purposes to the pyramids of the mesoamericans. "Dirt mounds" sounds unimpressive but these were large construction projects made using wooden shovels and woven baskets. It takes a large amount of non-subsistence farming labor to get that done. Here's an artist's rendition of what the largest of these cities, Cahokia just east of modern day St. Louis, looked like at its' peak:
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1491 by Charles C. Mann is a book you may enjoy. Cahokia, the rapid depopulation caused by disease in NA, and alternate agriculture (which brings us all the nightshades, corn, controlled prairie burns, and the Amazonian rainforest) all appear therein. I also kind of dig it that in a steep environment, wheels were for children's toys but not for wagons on roads, because Andean camelids were good at climbing.
 
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Aren't they supposedly partly descended from nomadic Cro-Magnon types (Ice Age hunter-gatherer types, that weren't Neanderthals)?
 
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TheShrike said:
1491 by Charles C. Mann is a book you may enjoy. Cahokia, the rapid depopulation caused by disease in NA, and alternate agriculture (which brings us all the nightshades, corn, controlled prairie burns, and the Amazonian rainforest) all appear therein. I also kind of dig it that in a steep environment, wheels were for children's toys but not for wagons on roads, because Andean camelids were good at climbing.
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This one is excellent, I've been reading through it.
 
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This would be a cool thread to branch off and just talk about historical was of living from Native Americans.
 
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Injuns had varying levels of technological sophistication and varying levels of technological breadth

Some had very primitive stuff and only very primitive stuff

Some had very sophisticated stuff in niches like fishing or surviving in the frigid north or making leather or whatever

Some had very sophisticated stuff across broad technological areas like the human sacrificers building pyramids and big road networks and sheeeit
 
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SpergioLeonne said:
Comanches were dicks. They didn’t build anything of their own, they were just essentially Dothraki raiders who stole what they wanted from their neighbors.

Anyways idk how much they were into wheels but mesoamericans seemed pretty into carving stone spheres for some reason. View attachment 5797874
Oraibi, a Hopi village in Arizona, has been continually inhabited since like 1100 ad
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I think the Sioux weren't that much better, either. Or perhaps they had more of a Barbarian/Viking type mentality, and way of life.

parsnip said:
The ones around here were pretty cool, imo. They figured out how to reduce maple sap into sugar, process wild rice and corn, survive the bullshit winters etc, which I admire. I wish I had half the knowledge of plants and survival in the wilderness that the average native back then would have had.
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Watching Ray Mears gives me all the knowledge I need.
 
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Sparkletor 2.0 said:
Wow guys, I never knew how advanced the natives were. They grew grain and made clothes out of animal skins and ate plants for medicine. Totally better than when humans discovered how to do those things 10,000 years ago.
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Ones still has some people walking among us while Neanderthals were bread out ages ago. Does this answer your question?
 
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