UK Welsh language declared racist - It's horrible, but racist? Come on...

Art council’s use of Welsh language ‘excludes ethnic minorities’, body’s own repor

Leading cultural institutions demonstrating racism in ‘calculated and repetitive’ fashion, report says

www.independent.co.uk

Two leading cultural bodies in Wales are structurally racist and their Welsh language requirements risk excluding minorities, a report commissioned by the organisations themselves has concluded.

The Arts Council of Wales and Amgueddfa Cymru - the National Museum Wales - commissioned research looking into their inclusion efforts.

The Arts Anti-Racist Union, which carried out some of the research, said that neither body had done enough to engage with people from black and ethnic minority backgrounds.

“Black and non-black people of colour are not more present” because of a “concerted structural effort - one that is very much present in the attitudes and behaviours of those in power”, the report said.

It also said the organisations excluded black and minority people not through “willful ignorance”, but as part of a “calculated and repetitive pattern”.

“Some black artists noted that they were only given commissions during Black History Month, despite having applied to work with the Arts Council of Wales and Amgueddfa Cymru - National Museum Wales (ACW and NMW-AC) on numerous occasions throughout the year,” the report added.

Meanwhile, the report said current Welsh language policies in the organisations’ applications processes “can exclude Black and non-Black people of colour”, recommending that marginalised artists and art workers should receive support to learn different languages in addition to Welsh .

It added that a group of people from ethnic minorities consulted on their experiences of the art sector in Wales had called for the organisations to “relax the emphasis” on requirements for staff having to speak Welsh.

Those who were consulted also urged the organisations to offer “job sharing in roles that may require Welsh language proficiency.”

The Arts Council of Wales currently requires the Welsh language skills of staff to be tested annually through a self-assessment.

In a joint statement, Arts Council of Wales and Amgueddfa Cymru, which have also commissioned research into their engagement with poorer communities and those living with disabilities, said they "welcomed the findings" and would take steps to address the concerns outlined in the report.

"The approaches taken by all three organisations focused on collaborating with communities rather than extrapolating from communities, and provide a range of important findings and recommendations," the statement added.

"Arts Council of Wales and Amgueddfa Cymru will publish a joint action plan with a timeframe for taking forward the recommendations in the autumn."
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Oh no! Native languages can be considered racist now guys! Especially if they're already dying minority languages!

 

[WonderWino]

It's true. Dyn is man and du is black. Word order in Welsh is (simplifying) the reverse of English. If you have doubts:
View attachment 2466007

Well that is certainly awkward

I would love to see twitters reaction to that getting around and see a few heads explode over it. You just know they would utterly screech about that one for months

 

[Billy Beer]

I went to Aberystwyth once. There's a decent-sized cliff-face that over-looks the town, on it, spray painted in Welsh was [translated to English] "Fuck off home, English"

I laughed.

 

[Florence]

Yet again, you being autistic and not understanding nuance. Where did I say "culture is bad"? I said making your entire identity brainless worship of a past that never existed, and then letting it control your politics, is psychotic. But thanks for admitting your "culture" is a construction that you use to justify your own personal prejudices and hang ups rather then a thing in and of itself.

Nationalism is for people afraid of themselves.

For someone who’s been here since 2016 you sure are retarded.

My first thought was- ‘Who are these fuckers?’ and it appears they are… nobodies. What a surprise. The Welsh Arts Anti Racist Union‘s email address is fucking gmail, they cant even spend a few quid on a domain and seem to mostly exist as a Twitter account, yet they somehow managed to browbeat enough public sector middle class white arts graduates to get themselves commissioned to do ‘research’ that concluded that more money needed throwing at people who are no doubt members of the WAARU. It’s just yet another race grift.

Ill be interested to see what the Welsh Nationalist response is to this, they have a history of feistiness, and if too many WAARU members are English they’ll be seething so hard you’ll be able to see the steam from Liverpool.

Hopefully a few WAARU members will be coming home to a real fire soon.

 

[No. 7 cat]

It sounds like someone being strangled so whatever.

 

[Tree]

Yeah that's a pretty shit analysis OP. They aren't saying the language is racist, they're saying requirements to speak it in government funded cultural projects basically means everybody who doesn't never gets a job. Which is just objectively true, whether you think it's "worth it" or not

See now this is when the headlines should end with "And That's a Good Thing." Managing collectives by various methods of gatekeeping is successful political strategy. It's no coincidence the right isn't allowed to have any collectivist machinations that are validated by the narrative affirmers. A language is a great means of keeping out outsiders, or at least those without commitment.

 

[DoNotReadTheFinePrint]

So, they're saying immigrants are too stupid/lazy to learn another language. I‘m not surprised.
Perhaps they should stay in their nations if they don’t want to learn another language, still many can’t read and/or write even their own language.

Imagine someone white going into one of those nations the immigrants come from and complaining about their language. This would create such a shitstorm and cancel the person forever.

 

[Adjacent Jerboa]

If I move to an African nation, do I have the right to demand that accommodations be made to allow me to take a job which requires knowledge of the native language when I don't speak it? After all, I'd be a minority in an African nation. What if it was one of those African click languages that hardly anyone uses? Couldn't a white person make the case that hiring a minority who couldn't speak the language was more important than preserving a dying language? I bet that would be considered "white supremacy" to demand other people change their language so you don't have to be bothered to learn it.

We're talking about Welsh here. You dont need a degree in Latin to get a job in Italy for fuck's sake.

Take it from someone who has been to wales a lot: we're talking about a language that takes 13 years for people to agree on the spelling of a street name, only for the new sign to be immediately vandalised because nobody even likes the revised 'authentic' version.

 

[Mealy Mouth Spittle]

We're talking about Welsh here. You dont need a degree in Latin to get a job in Italy for fuck's sake.

Take it from someone who has been to wales a lot: we're talking about a language that takes 13 years for people to agree on the spelling of a street name, only for the new sign to be immediately vandalised because nobody even likes the revised 'authentic' version.

If the job itself can be done without needing to know Welsh, then I guess it is an arbitrary rule that doesn't make much sense and can be discarded easily. But, if the language isn't necessary, why are people only now caring about it and only because it affects non-white people? Surely there are white people who were denied jobs because they couldn't speak Welsh, either. It's a pity no one cared enough to speak up for them.

 

[feedtheoctopus]

What do you mean by fantastic and mythologized? To borrow my previous example of Greek Symposiums; they were real events which I didn't make up. Symposiums without the other elements of ancient Greek culture are possible. There's no mythology of fantasy involved unless you hold that you can't have a banquet with entertainment and deep discussion without you and your friends also being Mediterranean child fuckers. Now onto the whole street preacher sounding line about idolatry.

Idol worship would suggest subordination and worship. Its ironic that you say in your next comment that nobody is getting your nuance when you insist that you can't desire to preserve any part of culture without becoming a slave to it. You can hold different cultural elements to different values. For instance, if I was asked to die to preserve my cultural cuisine I would probably say no. Conversely, to preserve my cultural values on freedom I would gladly give my life. On other hand, even If I wouldn't subordinate myself to my culture's cuisine I would still want to preserve it. You don't need to worship culture to want to retain elements which you think are good. At the same time you don't need to be revolutionary and tear everything down if you want to introduce something new or change a part of your culture that you find bad.

Bonus Round: Why are you using fantastic and mythologized as pejoratives? The historical basis for Gautama Buddha is pretty shaky. I would say respecting the sanctity of all life is nonetheless a reasonable principle. Even if later Buddhist societies were mistaken and mythologizing why would that make them wrong?

Let me use ISIS as an example here. They were willing to commit genocide, butcher thousands of people, and destroy the middle east so that they could force the Muslim world back to what they thought it "used to be". Thing is it was never like that, they're just violent assholes. Nationalism is built on a bullshit view of the world, a simplistic and fundamentally idiotic idealized vision of history (never mind the present) that ignores the actual complexity of the world.

If you make "muh culture!" the central element of a political system you are not "preserving" anything, you're just finding new reasons to be a violent dickhead afraid of change. There is a world of difference between what you do in your private life and what you force on others. Any political system built around fighting change and evolution is naturally going to be a complete and total disaster. History always marches, you'll just end up fighting the world over simplified nonsense.

You mentioned Buddhists. It's one thing to like a story, to see something meaningful in it. Another thing when Buddhist militants in Burma round up Muslim civilians and shoot them in the head because they think the story is more important than people.

 

[Akashic Retard]

>welsh requirements risk excluding minorities

Yeah because all white people speak fucking Welsh

 

[Ow The Edge]

Let me use ISIS as an example here. They were willing to commit genocide, butcher thousands of people, and destroy the middle east so that they could force the Muslim world back to what they thought it "used to be". Thing is it was never like that, they're just violent assholes. Nationalism is built on a bullshit view of the world, a simplistic and fundamentally idiotic idealized vision of history (never mind the present) that ignores the actual complexity of the world.

If you make "muh culture!" the central element of a political system you are not "preserving" anything, you're just finding new reasons to be a violent dickhead afraid of change. There is a world of difference between what you do in your private life and what you force on others. Any political system built around fighting change and evolution is naturally going to be a complete and total disaster. History always marches, you'll just end up fighting the world over simplified nonsense.

You mentioned Buddhists. It's one thing to like a story, to see something meaningful in it. Another thing when Buddhist militants in Burma round up Muslim civilians and shoot them in the head because they think the story is more important than people.

Why shouldn’t a story be more important than people, except insofar as you have uncritically accepted a cultural tenet regarding the individual value of a human life which has no particular basis outside of that? All people die sometime. Stories can live a good deal longer.

 

[feedtheoctopus]

Why shouldn’t a story be more important than people, except insofar as you have uncritically accepted a cultural tenet regarding the individual value of a human life which has no particular basis outside of that? All people die sometime. Stories can live a good deal longer.

Okay edgelord

 

[Ow The Edge]

Okay edgelord

The value of an individual human life is a cultural. What other basis do you have for it?

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

I’ve heard some authorative sources state that the welsh language puts sheep on edge.

 

[Corpun]

At what point do you think the many native groups of Europe will realize there is a war on there Race, culture, history, and there future, That there ruling class absolutely hates them and wants nothing more then there destruction, Will any of them wake up and do something?

Too late. So long as retards have bread and circus they are content.

 

[Nuke the Whales]

Let me use ISIS as an example here. They were willing to commit genocide, butcher thousands of people, and destroy the middle east so that they could force the Muslim world back to what they thought it "used to be". Thing is it was never like that, they're just violent assholes.

Quick historical correction. ISIS is right in what it claims at least according to the earliest and best Muslim sources. I could quote you literally hundreds of verses from the Quran and the Hadith of Muhammed engaging in and advocating the brutal and violent subjugation of his enemies. Muhammed was a violent murderer and a pedophile who raped a 9 year old as well as torturing and killing his own brother-in-law with fire for a sack of coins. Not only did he encourage the rape of female captives but also claimed it was effectively blasphemy to not cum inside them. His followers weren't much better. The Hadith record Muhammed congratulating one of his lieutenants for murdering a woman and her child after she made fun of the "prophet." His successor Uthman crushed a man's pelvis for disagreeing with his interpretation of the Quran and put thousands of innocents to the sword. At least read the sources before you speak out of ignorance to defend a horrible religion founded by a mass-murdering pedophile. I would recommend you read the Quran and the Hadiths of Sahih Muslim and Sahih al-Bukhari; the three most authoritative sources according to Muslims themselves. I would even commend Sahih Muslim for his historic method that puts even some modern academics to shame. If you want a wider historic overview then you can find atrocities predicated on orthodox Muslim beliefs from Muhammed's first caravan robbery to the Taliban today.

Nationalism is built on a bullshit view of the world, a simplistic and fundamentally idiotic idealized vision of history (never mind the present) that ignores the actual complexity of the world.

Preserving culture doesn't equal nationalism, that is itself simplistic. Many cultures even value their anti-nationalism like the Belgians and the Swiss. You're the one ignoring the complexities of the world. Why must preserving culture equal nationalism? There were plenty of people eager to hold on to their provincial cultures in Italy despite Fascist attempts to create a unified national culture, Sicily being the poster child to the point of becoming autonomous after the war. I could give you a hundred more examples but the basic point is that despite your insistence to the contrary, Nationalism and preserving culture aren't equal. You also rule out cultures within nations like, for instance the Welsh or Scottish in the UK. The majority of both are content to remain in the UK but many would also like their culture preserved. Would you claim that people who don't even want their own nation are Nationalists? It seems like you might be ignoring the actual complexity of the world which you yourself claim to be a bad thing.

Any political system built around fighting change and evolution is naturally going to be a complete and total disaster. History always marches, you'll just end up fighting the world over simplified nonsense.

Its kinda funny, You keep using word like "simplified" and accuse others of lacking nuance while speaking in nothing but broad absolute statements yourself. Anyway, I find it interesting that you think history has some end point to be marched towards. What is this endpoint and how do you in particular know what history should be marching towards? I can't really argue without knowing how you think history marches and to what its marching towards as well as what basis (other than your subjective opinion) you have for that belief.

You mentioned Buddhists. It's one thing to like a story, to see something meaningful in it. Another thing when Buddhist militants in Burma round up Muslim civilians and shoot them in the head because they think the story is more important than people.

Keep focused. I'm talking about the belief of Buddhists that all life is sacred. In your ISIS example you acknowledge that a group can claim to represent one set of values without actually representing them. I'm talking about the Buddhist principle of respecting all life. Would you claim that a group that kills civilians actually embodies this principle? Let me ask you straight, even if it were predicated on a mythologized view of the past, should the cultural principle of respecting all life be preserved?

Okay edgelord

They're reacting to your argument. As you've said earlier the only thing certain in life is whether you die sooner or later. However, all your arguments hinge on death being an evil. However, you also deny anything that could be a basis for that belief. What's your argument against societies that murder innocents are objectively wrong? If you're only argument is that such a society conflicts with your subjective personal morality then you will lose every moral argument. All your opponent two words to beat you: "I disagree."

 

[Freesia]

Identity? They've all failed, world sucks. Build a new one. A better one.

What the fuck does this mean?

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

We're talking about Welsh here. You dont need a degree in Latin to get a job in Italy for fuck's sake.

Take it from someone who has been to wales a lot: we're talking about a language that takes 13 years for people to agree on the spelling of a street name, only for the new sign to be immediately vandalised because nobody even likes the revised 'authentic' version.

While you are correct they do have a bee in their bonnet about preserving the language much like the Irish do and I can understand articles being ticked about it being dismissed even if the title is pure click bait.

I’ve heard some authorative sources state that the welsh language puts sheep on edge.

French is the language of love. Welsh however is the language of rampant sheep sex.

 

[General Disarray]

Next thing you know writing in cursive will be outlawed as a white supremacist cypher or some shit,

 

[White Trash Motorsport]

Is this done now? It looks done to me, so great, let’s get back to the Welsh.

There‘s less than a million native Welsh speakers, it’s not a dead language but it’s required medical help in the form of government subsidy and legislation. So you have public money paying on the one hand to preserve an endangered minority native language, and on the other public money paying to be told how unspeakably beastly it is to expect incomers to learn Welsh if they live in Wales.
Amazing.