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I bought WinRAR.
Weightlifting for Kiwis - Discussion and support regarding the art of swole
- Thread starter Judge Holden
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- Feb 5, 2021
Many years ago, when I first started training, I bought Jason Ferrugia's book, "Muscle Gaining Secrets". It had a beginner strength training program in it, and it was very helpful. I put on a lot of muscle in a very short amount of time - so much that my coworkers were convinced I was using steroids.
FYI, that book was the first time I had ever read anyone explain how to truly build muscle (even with the obvious caveat that a lot of people using his methods are on PEDs).
whatsupwthat
kiwifarms.net
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- Jan 30, 2025
Either you work with blind people, are delusional or just straight up made it up to shill the book, this didn't happen.
It's a bit of a shame that 99% of things a fitness "influencer" will try to sell you is straight up a scam, or a shitty overpriced product made just to capitalize off of fans.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2021
It did happen. I put on 11kg of muscle in about 3 months. By about 7 months I had put on 20kg. I also worked with a lot of guys who did use steroids, and they simply could not believe that anyone else could put on muscle without also using them.
"Shill the book". Ok, faggot. You are now on Ignore.
KillaSmoke
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2025
You almost certainly didn't gain 11 kg of muscle. You may well have gained 11 kg. Without knowing tons of specifics, its impossible to give an exact breakdown
Realistically, if you're a beginner, whos never lifted before, with amazing genetics, who did absolutely everything 110℅ right, you might have gained somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 kg of actual contractile muscle tissue. I'm not trying to take anything away from you, by saying you "only" gained 6 kg of muscle in 3 months, that's fucking great. 95℅ of guys at your gym would probably suck a dick for that kind of progress.
But that's basically the cap for how quickly a human body can physically synthesize muscle protein. It doesn't really matter how good your training/nutrition/genetics are, or how much gear you use. You just can't push past that limit, at least not by any meaningful amount.
Then you've got maybe another 2 kg of additional glycogen and associated water, maybe more if you were undereating carbs before you started to put on weight.
On top of that, if you've got a lot of inflammation from training, which is not uncommon in a beginner who's not used to working out, you might be holding another kilo of water from that.
If you're bulking, that means you're eating more. Let's say you've got an extra 500 g of stuff working its way through your GI tract.
Which leaves us with 1.5 kg fat gain
Again, these are made up numbers, but I've tried to be pretty damn charitable in my assumptions. You can rejigger them however you'd like, if you feel it would be more accurate. I'm just trying to illustrate the point that 11 kg does not mean 11 kg of muscle.
In the future, you can say "I gained 11 kg, while maintaining similar body comp", which is still really fucking impressive, while not being a transparent falsehood to anyone who isn't retarded
There's a few possibilities here. Maybe they were just trying to be nice, and hype you up. Maybe you misconstrued what they said. Or maybe, they train/eat like shit, and legitimately the only reason they've ever grown is by using steroids. If its the last one, congrats on doing a better job than someone who does literally everything wrong.
Or maybe I'm wrong, and you really gained 11 kg of contractile muscle tissue in 3 months, and 9 more in the next 4 months. If that's the case, it sounds like you're about 2-3 years out from being the next Mr. Olympia. Make sure to shout out the farms when you win
I get the mentality though. You see someone huge and you wanna do what they're doing 'cause if you do that and don't get huge, you know it's not the program that's the problem, right?
lmao
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2022
I didn’t pay but probably the quickest way to learn how to structure a program is to run a well structured one from someone else
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2021
These are both valid viewpoints. The advice I always give is "Find someone who looks like you want to, and ask what they do." If that person is a professional trainer, they will definitely have a program or may even create one just for you. There's nothing wrong with that.
I can certainly understand why someone would look askance at the average social media fitness guru trying to flog programs, but there are legitimate tools out there that can give good results. PL I didn't get over 76kg until I was 30, then I got up to 97kg within several months. At my peak, when I was powerlifting, I was 104kg.
@KillaSmoke Yes, you are technically correct that it wasn't 100% muscle but the majority was and for the sake of brevity, it's just easier to say "I put on X amount of muscle".
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whatsupwthat
kiwifarms.net
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- Jan 30, 2025
I'd buy that it was for the sake of brevity if you didn't in the same post boast about how guys on gear were amazed that you were getting so big as a natty.
KillaSmoke
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2025
Let's say that I told you that I grew my dick by 4 inches, and you called me out by saying that actually I just got an erection. If I responded by saying "yeah, technically you're right, but, like, whatever, dood..." I imagine you would accuse me of coping.
Got back home from travelling like a week ago, and promptly got covid (again). Haven't been tracking food, since I'm too tired to care. What was planned as a week back at maintenance is probably going to end up as a week and a half to two weeks at a minor surplus.
To recap, started slightly under 84 kg, dieted for 4 weeks, got down to 76. After a week at "maintenance", I'm back up to 79.7 kg. Presumably I'm topped back up on glycogen by now, which means I've lost about 4 kg of actual tissue. I'm sure some amount of that was muscle loss, but at least visually, it certainly doesn't look like that.
Was really expecting it to be much harder, with far worse muscle retention, especially since I was travelling and living off of a diet of street food, but I can't really complain. Even with covid throwing a wrench into my plan, I still think I'm on track to hit 70kg by august. Once I start eating again, I'l regain a few kilos in the first week, but even so, I should have a nice long buffer to bulk without getting too fat. Its looking like I'll be able to bulk for twice as long as last time, and end it with roughly the body comp I have 1/3 the way through the diet... Assuming everything goes well
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2022
If he put on ~25 pounds of what looked mostly like muscle as a beginner that's fantastic. Some people actually have good genetics for strength sports I guess.
some questions and thoughts:
1) What are some exercises you've wanted to incorporate, but haven't quite found the time and space for them in your routine? For me, box jumps, step-ups, and lunges (standing lunges w/barbell). I've been able to incorporate GHD rotating back extensions and GHD situp twists. After seeing a 110 pound woman in my gym deadlifting 315 for reps I started imitating a lot of her support movements--single leg 45 degree back extensions, the aforementioned rotational-antirotational work.
2) How do you guys set up programs for women? I have gotten my wife into lifting, and she's hitting the weight room with me about 2 to 3 times a week. I've designed a simple full body routine for her, just doing double progression until she is familiar with the lifts, autonomous in the gym, and out of easy gains. I chose full body to make adherence a bit simpler, just go when you can and do any of the 3 workouts and you'll be fine more or less, don't have to remember so much. My main considerations were focusing generally on lower body particularly via isolations, and keeping the 'strength-focused' rep ranges to the heavy lower body compounds. I'm focusing on moderate rep ranges, and getting fairly even distribution of squatting, pressing, pulling, and hinging pattern movements. By my counts the major areas of the body are getting 9-12 sets a week. I'm focusing on back in part to help her with her squat and deadlift, she has to be able to shoulder weight with a tiny frame.
So far the workouts take about an hour or so for her (cardio and changing adds another half hour tho), but she's making progress, up to 100+ pounds on DL, Squat, and RDL. DOMS is now manageable since she's not such a potato anymore, but I'm curious if there's any variation or tips for planning progression for a woman, or other things I should know about besides the general lower body dominance.
Here's the routine for reference. I'm open to making substitutions or restructuring it if any of you guys have bright ideas.
Day 1:
1. Squat (4x3-5 reps),
2. Dumbbell OHP (4x5-10 reps)
3. Pulldowns (3x 5-10),
4. Curls (3x 5-10),
5. Hip Abduction/Adduction superset, (2x15+),
6. Abs (3x15+)
7. Leg Curl (2x10-15)
Day 2:
1. Deadlift (4x3-5)
2. Dumbbell Bench (4x5-10)
3. Pulldowns (4x5-10)
4. Pullthrough (3x10-15)
5. Facepulls (3x10-15)
6. Triceps (3x10-15)
7. Abs (3x15+)
Day 3:
1. RDL (3x5-10)
2. Leg Press (3x5-10)
3. Dumbbell Incline Press (3x5-10)
4. Chest Flye (3x 10-15)
5. Leg Extension (3x10-15)
6. Abs (3x 15+)
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2017
I pirated some programs from some dudes I follow on YouTube and it's all just recycled content from their free, public, guide videos. Just the dude sitting on webcam, recommending a generic weekly routine like it's some proprietary information with 1/50th of the production quality compared to their free content.
My favorite is the 1 on 1 online training sessions. What genuine burning question do you have to ask? "hur durr how 2 lift more". The excuse I hear is it's about "accountability". Nigga be accountable to yourself. Imagine paypigging because you can't find the willpower to do the thing you think you want to do. Maybe just stop at that point.
edit: I think I'm realizing there's actually nothing to talk about when it comes to strength training.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2023
Some people have just won the genetic lottery. Dude is probably super lucky and well disciplined.
whatsupwthat
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2025
There really isn't, that's why I have a beef with almost every fitness channel that's around nowadays trying to peddle you bullshit. You could cover everything there is to be covered in around 10-15 videos, but some of these guys post daily so a lot ends up being goyslop. For example, the Renaissance Periodization channel used to be a really good source of info about 4-5 years ago, but after tryharding for the Youtube algo they just put out mediocre and sometimes completely wrong info out there just because to pump out more vids. I have a gripe with them especially since they shill their app in all of their content, yet there's been times where that fat kike Mike Israetel will tell you not to do an exercise in a video, and then the app will tell you to do said exercise in your routine. Fucking lunacy.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2023
What you don’t realise is how I work out is the right way and everyone else is wrong. I can teach you that way if you like, subscribe, and leave a comment.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2022
I think a lot of the people who paypig for it are genuinely overthinking it and unwilling to do the things that let you lift more, like gaining some weight, controlling out-of-gym variables, trying really fucking hard, not being afraid of heavy weight or lifting to failure, and doing it until the heavier weight moves as much as you want.
The idea that you can significantly optimize the process without drugs is really, really tempting and seems like a realistic promise somehow. But no, every huge guy is either on drugs, a fucking freak, or has been doing it for 5+ years, hard and consistent.
turns out pumping a fat ugly midwit potato narc full of gear turns the potato into a fat ugly bitchy midwit potato narc with insane body dysmorphia. Mike may be fuckhuge, but the man just can't into the shitty and hard part of bodybuilding. In all of his videos he comes across like a dishonest closet case, right down to the constant gigamanlet angle frauding with his close-up-to-the-table sit-down style of video. Also, the whole drama around israetel is hilarious, Solomon Nelson comes across like Lyle's new lover, and they've both decided to be catty to an ex they decided to HATE. They're at like 10+ hours of calling him a fat baby, which is a lot of calling him a fat baby.
KillaSmoke
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2025
Coming from a cycling background, doing primarily interval training, I've been really surprised by how much "easier" lifting is. I imagine its a different story if you were a competitor, trying to force your body into lifting every ounce its capable of. But at least in terms of training, how long do those last few reps, the really difficult unpleasant ones take? 10 seconds? 15? 20? If you're really grinding, maybe 30 seconds? On the bike, you might hit the point where your brain is screaming at you to tap out, then have to hold that same power for 3 more minutes. Then you "rest" (still working, just at a lighter load) for 90 seconds, and do it 5 more fucking times. Personally, I've found that if I'm doing a lot of higher power intervals, I can't handle music, its actually too stressful to have it distracting me, while I try to maintain focus on pedaling
Regarding the "optimization" point, I agree with what you're saying, but I also feel like people misuse that word. In my mind, you don't optimize everything... You optimize for one thing, at the expense of everything else. If you're an equipped powerlifter, who only benches, you can optimize the fuck out of that training, because there's one single outcome you care about : bench pressing the most weight possible, in your goofy little suit. If you want to specifically grow your rear left delt, because you're an autistic bodybuilder, and everything is plenty big, except for that one muscle that's making you the laughingstock of the gym, you can optimize for that. Hell, if you wanted to spend as little time lifting as possible, while still progressing, you could even optimize for that.
But if you're a beginner, who has really general goals (get everything stronger, get all your muscles bigger, get more endurance, be less fat), there are plenty of retarded ways you could structure training, but there's also a lot of reasonably intelligent ways to do it. Once you're on the reasonably intelligent side of the spectrum, for the most part, all of the different approaches are going to have pretty similar outcomes the majority of the time
Possible exceptions being if you have weird proportions, so a lift that "should" use one muscle is using something different, or if you really enjoy one particular style of training, so work harder doing that than another style that you hate, etc... But I feel like generally when people in the lifting world talk about "optimal" training, they're talking about a universal "best", for all people, at all times, regardless of context. Not finding what works best for you personally, at one point in time, with these goals, and this training history. And honestly, that's one of those ideas which is so self-evidently nonsensical, that it kind of makes it more difficult to argue against
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2021
Incredibly stupid response, but very typical of your Gamma need to prove what a Smart Boy you are. Congratulations for outing yourself, Redditor.
Also now on Ignore.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2025
Anyone have experience experimenting with different barbell holds for back squats? I sometimes get this painful pulling in my triceps during a difficult squat workout (especially if my triceps are still recovering from yesterday's shoulder day). Usually I just suck it up, but I've been trying to focus down quads lately and want to improve my form. Some of the guys at the gym hold the bar super low on their back with their arms spread far apart.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2021
Having had surgery on both shoulders, I can't get my arms into position for squats. I found two workarounds:
1) Use lifting loops so you keep your hands in front of your clavicles, with the loops extending over your traps to the bar,
or
2) Use a Manta Ray. These are excellent, although a doubled-up towel underneath it for comfort is a good idea.