UN US Midterm Elections 2018 Megathread - Blue Wave or Red Tsunami? Because you know we need one.

Alec Benson Leary · Nov 11, 2018

Noncitizens shouldn't vote period. If you live here long enough to get settled and for politics to affect your life, thereby making you deserve a voice? Then become a citizen. Otherwise your time here is temporary and go home.

Of course the democrats will never lift a finger to encourage or facilitate the pursuit of citizenship by longterm immigrants. They benefit too much by having a permanent bloc of second-class, always vulnerable immigrants who are terrified into voting their way because "the republicans will kick you out".

It's HK-47 · Nov 11, 2018

Glad I couldn't help said:
A bit off-topic, but I've heard that Birtherism got its public state as a Clinton smear campaign against Obama. Is this true?

I don't know if her campaign or Hillary herself started the rumour, and I would imagine that would be a bitch-and-a-half to prove now that they want to pin the whole thing on Trump, but it was definitely something that some of her most-ardent supporters--Such as Phillip Berg--were running with in 2008 in a final, last-ditch effort to try and steer support away from Obama once Hillary started losing against him.

Pretty goddamn difficult to prove it, since she doubtlessly wanted to keep her hands clean of the backlash it could cause, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to learn that the idea came from Hillary herself. Either way: "Birtherism" started in the Democratic camp, not the Republican one.

Marvin · Nov 11, 2018

Alec Benson Leary said:
Noncitizens shouldn't vote period. If you live here long enough to get settled and for politics to affect your life, thereby making you deserve a voice? Then become a citizen. Otherwise your time here is temporary and go home.

When it comes to local elections, I'm OK with limited representation for long term residents. If someone is, say, an expat living here with a family, maybe a professor at a university or something like that, and they're paying taxes, I think it's OK for them to have some say in how their taxes are spent.

Citizenship is a lifelong commitment, and I think it's OK for someone to be here for say, five years or ten years, and to still be able to cast a ballot for mayor or city council.

The process should be sanitized though to prevent access to anything that might affect federal elections. So obviously they can't vote for senators, representatives or the president, but more importantly, they can't vote in any election that might affect the redistricting process in their state.

How the votes get used is much bigger of a problem than the raw vote count, I think.

Alec Benson Leary said:
Of course the democrats will never lift a finger to encourage or facilitate the pursuit of citizenship by longterm immigrants. They benefit too much by having a permanent bloc of second-class, always vulnerable immigrants who are terrified into voting their way because "the republicans will kick you out".

The democrats are like Barb, trying to raise a generation of Chris Chans. They want their offspring to be mortally dependent on them, so they make every effort to nuke their independence. Don't worry, mama govt will provide you all with nice tugboats, as long as you swear loyalty to her forever.

But also like Barb, the democrat leadership have gone senile and now the inmates are running the asylum. The Chris Chans are just rambling about how orange bad man / ted bundy-chu are responsible for everything bad, and all Barb can do is nod and say "that's nice dear".

They're not worrying about how they pay the bills, because the blue wave / dimensional merge is coming and by then they'll have access to the coffers of the rich people / cwcville and everything will be fine.

Alec Benson Leary · Nov 11, 2018

Marvin said:
When it comes to local elections, I'm OK with limited representation for long term residents. If someone is, say, an expat living here with a family, maybe a professor at a university or something like that, and they're paying taxes, I think it's OK for them to have some say in how their taxes are spent.

Citizenship is a lifelong commitment, and I think it's OK for someone to be here for say, five years or ten years, and to still be able to cast a ballot for mayor or city council.

That's something for me to think about. I suppose my grand thought on everything is just a big revamp of citizenship as a concept, I kind of believe there should be sharper divides between temporary and permanent residents, and that permanent residency should be effectively synonymous with citizenship and therefore require the steps necessary to obtain it be taken by the immigrant. I admit it may be simplistic to say but if your life plan involves going back to your home country then I don't really think you should be given a say in politics because your unwillingness to commit to fully joining this country should be taken as a de jure admission that you are not invested enough to vote. Maybe you're right that it should be grayer when talking about smaller/local elections though. But even there, I'm resistant. For example, my local city politics panders to Somali immigrants enough as is. I'm kind of opposed to anything that incentivizes a party (the democrats, but hypothetically any party) to pursue an agenda that seeks out more immigrants for its bloc - particularly in a situation like the US is in now, where the dichotomy of some areas that are less friendly to immigrants and some that are more have effectively created an economy of "sanctuary cities" that lavish praise and benefits on immigrants above what more conservative areas do, and functionally encourage immigrants to act like customers shopping for a better deal and derive personal benefit from perks and handouts - the opposite of what immigrants should be doing, which is offering to make their host nation a better place and derive personal benefit just from being in a better country. Maybe you could provide another benefit to your idea but at the moment I disagree with it.

Marvin said:
The democrats are like Barb, trying to raise a generation of Chris Chans. They want their offspring to be mortally dependent on them, so they make every effort to nuke their independence. Don't worry, mama govt will provide you all with nice tugboats, as long as you swear loyalty to her forever.

But also like Barb, the democrat leadership have gone senile and now the inmates are running the asylum. The Chris Chans are just rambling about how orange bad man / ted bundy-chu are responsible for everything bad, and all Barb can do is nod and say "that's nice dear".

They're not worrying about how they pay the bills, because the blue wave / dimensional merge is coming and by then they'll have access to the coffers of the rich people / cwcville and everything will be fine.

And just like Chris, they've also become a bunch of degenerate made-up gender tomgirls!

PantsFreeZone · Nov 11, 2018

I've refrained from posting here because the rage within me is growing and I don't want to suggest that killing Democratic authoritarians is the only way to save the Republic, but I'm beginning to think that America is well and truly fucked.

This election and the corruption utilized is going to lead to more gun control and that is always the first step before they start building gulags.

Non-citizens voting, falsified records, burnt ballots, forged signatures, recounts and vote flipping are going to completely undermine the democratic process and when negotiation and conversation fail humans, the last option is conflict.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

Marvin · Nov 11, 2018

Alec Benson Leary said:
That's something for me to think about. I suppose my grand thought on everything is just a big revamp of citizenship as a concept, I kind of believe there should be sharper divides between temporary and permanent residents, and that permanent residency should be effectively synonymous with citizenship and therefore require the steps necessary to obtain it be taken by the immigrant. I admit it may be simplistic to say but if your life plan involves going back to your home country then I don't really think you should be given a say in politics because your unwillingness to commit to fully joining this country should be taken as a de jure admission that you are not invested enough to vote. Maybe you're right that it should be grayer when talking about smaller/local elections though. But even there, I'm resistant. For example, my local city politics panders to Somali immigrants enough as is. I'm kind of opposed to anything that incentivizes a party (the democrats, but hypothetically any party) to pursue an agenda that seeks out more immigrants for its bloc - particularly in a situation like the US is in now, where the dichotomy of some areas that are less friendly to immigrants and some that are more have effectively created an economy of "sanctuary cities" that lavish praise and benefits on immigrants above what more conservative areas do, and functionally encourage immigrants to act like customers shopping for a better deal and derive personal benefit from perks and handouts - the opposite of what immigrants should be doing, which is offering to make their host nation a better place and derive personal benefit just from being in a better country. Maybe you could provide another benefit to your idea but at the moment I disagree with it.

I suppose there's lots of interconnected systems here.

Like, the somalis can't vote in more immigrants, because that's a federal issue. They also couldn't vote away essential rights, because those are constitutional and court enforced.

But they could definitely vote themselves more entitlements. They could also make the general tone of the city more conservative. Enforced public modesty. Bars must close at 10PM and cannot be open on any muslim holidays. Shit like that. And the dems would 100% praise all of that nonsense, right up until the gay pride parade is on the chopping block.

And even then, I bet they'd still just pull the "asian vs muslim" shtick they do in Britain. (I know different historical origins of the term, but yeah.) They'd probably just write a piece about how the awful conservative city council shut down the gay pride parade, and conveniently forget to mention how it's 80% muslim immigrants.

I don't know, I guess I've had a different experience with long term immigrants. We don't have too many muslims here. The mexicans here don't vote to fuck anything up. They're not shutting down the bars. They're just opening up more taco joints, and I have zero problem with that.

I worked a remote job with a polish guy living in Britain and he was the type of person I had in mind. Long term resident, good civic attitudes, but still might return to Poland some day with his family. I wouldn't care if he had a say in what the local education council was teaching his kids.

I guess I just haven't had the displeasure of dealing with an aggressively adversarial voting block.

Perhaps the visa system could be restructured to be extremely very careful about who we give long term visas to. (And only the long term ones would get the vote.) In fact, I'd say we should be explicitly... maybe political is the wrong word, but at the very least, very picky about who we let in. You don't get the first amendment treatment of "all views are equally valid" until you're actually in the country.

Until then, I'd be perfectly fine with grilling long term visa applicants about if they believe in morality codes or temperance or any other sort of bullshit like that.

You don't have the right to those backwards beliefs until you're actually a resident or an american.

Edit: And while they could always lie, I don't think many of them do. I think they just think that the west is some cushy paradise where they can just lounge all over the place, oppressing women and gays because the locals in the west honor their culture. (When it's more that they merely tolerate their culture. But I suppose the distinction is lost on many of these people.)

I bet they'd just outright blurt out their beliefs.

whatever I feel like · Nov 11, 2018

misterduckford said:
Yeah, totally. Destroying legitimate ballots isn't fraud.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=VKAQUXOa8uI

Non-Laura Loomer source?

misterduckford · Nov 11, 2018

PantsFreeZone said:
I've refrained from posting here because the rage within me is growing and I don't want to suggest that killing Democratic authoritarians is the only way to save the Republic, but I'm beginning to think that America is well and truly fucked.

This election and the corruption utilized is going to lead to more gun control and that is always the first step before they start building gulags.

Non-citizens voting, falsified records, burnt ballots, forged signatures, recounts and vote flipping are going to completely undermine the democratic process and when negotiation and conversation fail humans, the last option is conflict.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

I'm pretty worried. Been doing my best to just jack out when I stop laughing.
Giggling at lunatics failing to destroy the country is one thing.
Watching them succeed is another.

Non-Laura Loomer source?

Oh, come on. You can ignore how nuts she is and just listen to the content. Arguments stand or fall on their own merit.

Alec Benson Leary · Nov 11, 2018

Marvin said:
But they could definitely vote themselves more entitlements. They could also make the general tone of the city more conservative. Enforced public modesty. Bars must close at 10PM and cannot be open on any muslim holidays. Shit like that. And the dems would 100% praise all of that nonsense, right up until the gay pride parade is on the chopping block.

And even then, I bet they'd still just pull the "asian vs muslim" shtick they do in Britain. (I know different historical origins of the term, but yeah.) They'd probably just write a piece about how the awful conservative city council shut down the gay pride parade, and conveniently forget to mention how it's 80% muslim immigrants.

It's funny you mention Pride because I think it holds special significance in Minneapolis - ours is one of the biggest in the country. I want to say that harming Pride would be crossing a special line that they wouldn't dare cross. I want to say that... but this summer fucking BLM obstructed the parade from beginning for over an hour and even in local news and discussion it barely caused a ripple. Any local democrat who doesn't make a big appearance at the parade is effectively committing career suicide, that's how big it is, but they still don't mind BLM obstructing it because those darn fags are part of the privileged patriarchy now I guess. So I wish I could say Minneapolis of all places wouldn't tolerate a muslim bloc getting too demanding and being the prime force in setting back gay rights without being challenged but even here it's not out of the question.

Marvin said:
I don't know, I guess I've had a different experience with long term immigrants. We don't have too many muslims here. The mexicans here don't vote to fuck anything up. They're not shutting down the bars. They're just opening up more taco joints, and I have zero problem with that.

We also have a lot of Mexicans, we have for a long time. Mexicans are fine, they work hard, they're polite and friendly, they want to mix with and support their American-born neighbors. They also aren't very open to lgbt people, but since it's okay for BLM to shit on gays openly I guess the leftists won't mind that part either. It's not gangs of Mexican kids throwing fucking rocks at each other at every train station I ride by in the morning. The giant highrise towers full of welfare recipients in Minneapolis don't have Mexicans in them. Those towers are there for Somalis.

Marvin said:
In fact, I'd say we should be explicitly... maybe political is the wrong word, but at the very least, very picky about who we let in. You don't get the first amendment treatment of "all views are equally valid" until you're actually in the country.

Until then, I'd be perfectly fine with grilling long term visa applicants about if they believe in morality codes or temperance or any other sort of bullshit like that.

You don't have the right to those backwards beliefs until you're actually a resident or an american.

It's very important to emphasize this fact. A lot of bleeding hearts are under the impression that our civil rights naturally apply to every human on earth, and that we have some obligation to extend them to everyone who asks us for a handout. The Honduran caravan threatening to sue over civil rights violations is a perfect example: these people are fooled into thinking they can sue for being kicked out of the US illegally before they even enter in the first place. @AnOminous worded it well in another post, he basically said you can't claim your right has been violated when you have not even had the opportunity to exercise such a right yet. To give their threat any credence effectively suggests that all 7.5 billion humans on earth are entitled to the protections of the US government despite the fact they all have their own sovereign governments they can sue for grievances. It's ridiculous. (And flies in the face of the left's usual complaints that the US shouldn't be policing the world.)

Ditto for free speech. I would argue that the US shouldn't attempt to punish any foreign individuals for speech because it really is a natural, negative right, the US shouldn't go punish speech in a Honduran national outside of our territory any more than we should go steal his property. That's just ethical. But this has nothing to do with the alleged "right" to enter and occupy our land. That right belongs naturally to people born here, and we choose to extend it to those who come to live here. (I do believe everyone who lives here is entitled to full civil rights and to address crimes/grievances through public courts even if they are here illegally because the alternative is too vulnerable to abuse. Of course, I don't consider deportation of an illegal alien to be a violation of rights if it occurs through legitimate justice. The point is we need to demonstrate it happens aboveboard.)

So you can believe and say anything you want. But immigration is not a right. Native-born Americans are entitled to stay here even if I don't like their religious beliefs because it is presumed cruel and unusual to exile a person from his homeland. But we did not deny you your life by blocking your entry because you never had a life here to begin with, therefore immigration restriction is not equitable to exile. Leftists who are mad they can't get rid of gay-hating christians need to realize that blocking foreign born gay-hating muslims is still in the interest of their home country.

Maxliam · Nov 11, 2018

PantsFreeZone said:
I've refrained from posting here because the rage within me is growing and I don't want to suggest that killing Democratic authoritarians is the only way to save the Republic, but I'm beginning to think that America is well and truly fucked.

This election and the corruption utilized is going to lead to more gun control and that is always the first step before they start building gulags.

Non-citizens voting, falsified records, burnt ballots, forged signatures, recounts and vote flipping are going to completely undermine the democratic process and when negotiation and conversation fail humans, the last option is conflict.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

Oh I think we will see a civil war sometime in the near future. My guess is maybe another 10 years or so. Balkanization is happening and I don't see it being reverted any time soon. I'm just wondering what event will spark it. What will cause all fucking hell to break loose and people to let slip the iPods of war.

Your Weird Fetish · Nov 11, 2018

PantsFreeZone said:
I've refrained from posting here because the rage within me is growing and I don't want to suggest that killing Democratic authoritarians is the only way to save the Republic, but I'm beginning to think that America is well and truly fucked.

This election and the corruption utilized is going to lead to more gun control and that is always the first step before they start building gulags.

Non-citizens voting, falsified records, burnt ballots, forged signatures, recounts and vote flipping are going to completely undermine the democratic process and when negotiation and conversation fail humans, the last option is conflict.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

These are the last desperate attempts of political blocs facing extinction via realignment. I think this is the brightest the future has looked for America in my lifetime.

It's HK-47 · Nov 11, 2018

Gotta' admit, the Steam news ticker for Stardew Valley is probably the last place I really expected to see some rambling about the midterm elections. I didn't even notice it was sitting there until just now. Those are some pretty nice farms, though.

1Tonka_Truck · Nov 11, 2018

It's HK-47 said:
Those are some pretty nice farms, though.

Be a shame if they were to be expropriated.

Mistress of the Night Sky · Nov 12, 2018

PantsFreeZone said:
I've refrained from posting here because the rage within me is growing and I don't want to suggest that killing Democratic authoritarians is the only way to save the Republic, but I'm beginning to think that America is well and truly fucked.

This election and the corruption utilized is going to lead to more gun control and that is always the first step before they start building gulags.

Non-citizens voting, falsified records, burnt ballots, forged signatures, recounts and vote flipping are going to completely undermine the democratic process and when negotiation and conversation fail humans, the last option is conflict.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

Reminder that it's only going to get worse in the 2020 elections. Dear lord that will be a shitshow.

Ponderous Pillock · Nov 12, 2018

Just to point out in the UK if you are a long term resident you can vote in council elections but not national ones. Seems like a sensible trade-off a lot of people are espousing as local issues are far more likely to effect your day to day than the MPs which seem to only appear every election year.

Orange//Net · Nov 12, 2018

melty said:
Anyone who thinks California needs a much bigger voice in politics is clearly insane and not worth paying attention to, nothing new to see here really.

Political illiteracy is rampent.

Corbin Dallas Multipass · Nov 12, 2018

Orange//Net said:
Political illiteracy is rampent.

As is literal illiteracy (It's spelled rampant).

So wow huh? The dem's pet vote fraud agent is fraudulently finding votes again, huh? And refusing to comply with court orders. Weird that this isn't being blasted by the media 24/7. Trying to steal elections is like... the worst thing you can do. That changes us from a democracy to a dictatorship. That's what ACTUAL FASCISTS do.

The whole thing about the US being controlled by the coasts under a direct democracy misses something important. The other states wouldn't like this at all. The other states grow the food, supply the people to the military, make the guns, make pretty much everything...

There'd be no need for a civil war. After a couple years of this the democrats in those places would be drawn and quartered by the starving citizenry.

Super-Chevy454 · Nov 12, 2018

Styx posted a vlog about the legacy media who close their eyes about the fraud in Broward county.

Orange//Net · Nov 12, 2018

Corbin Dallas Multipass said:
As is literal illiteracy (It's spelled rampant).

I'm full of irony.

Corbin Dallas Multipass said:
That changes us from a democracy to a dictatorship. That's what ACTUAL FASCISTS do.

B-but Trump is fascist orange Hitler, MSNBC told me.

Bob's Fries · Nov 12, 2018

Corbin Dallas Multipass said:
As is literal illiteracy (It's spelled rampant).

So wow huh? The dem's pet vote fraud agent is fraudulently finding votes again, huh? And refusing to comply with court orders. Weird that this isn't being blasted by the media 24/7. Trying to steal elections is like... the worst thing you can do. That changes us from a democracy to a dictatorship. That's what ACTUAL FASCISTS do.

The whole thing about the US being controlled by the coasts under a direct democracy misses something important. The other states wouldn't like this at all. The other states grow the food, supply the people to the military, make the guns, make pretty much everything...

There'd be no need for a civil war. After a couple years of this the democrats in those places would be drawn and quartered by the starving citizenry.

That's assuming they don't weasel out in time. Rats always find a way to escape. Watch what happened and is happening to Colorado and Texas.

UN US Midterm Elections 2018 Megathread - Blue Wave or Red Tsunami? Because you know we need one.

Alec Benson Leary

Creator of Asperchu

It's HK-47

Meatbag's Bounty of Bodies

Marvin

Alec Benson Leary

Creator of Asperchu

PantsFreeZone

Smartest monkey on the spinning space rock

Marvin

whatever I feel like

Koopa Lives Matter

misterduckford

Fine day for tacos.

Alec Benson Leary

Creator of Asperchu

Maxliam

You all disgust me.

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist

It's HK-47

Meatbag's Bounty of Bodies

1Tonka_Truck

Loaded Like A Boxcar Moving Like A Racecar

Mistress of the Night Sky

Ponderous Pillock

Welcome to Triple T, Tards, Troons and Trolls!

Orange//Net

Offically doxxed by the Antifa Furry Army

Corbin Dallas Multipass

Super-Chevy454

Orange//Net

Offically doxxed by the Antifa Furry Army

Bob's Fries