Culture United Methodist split: changing signs reflect upheaval

  • ⚙️ Performance issue identified and being addressed.
  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
L | A
By Greg Garrison
NFDO2IUECFEXDPC7BZM4Z5QG4I.jpg
The Rev. Carol Gullatt, pastor of the Abundant Grace church plant for United Methodists in Albertville,, accepts a United Methodist cross and flame logo sign from the Rev. Steve West. The sign formerly belonged to Morningstar Methodist Church, which disaffiliated from the United Methodist denomination.

More than half of the United Methodist churches across Alabama have disaffiliated from the denomination, and the signs are becoming obvious – churches are literally changing their signs, reflecting the upheaval that’s happened.

It started in many cases with a swoosh of black paint covering up the “United,” leaving behind “Methodist Church.” Some have since ordered new signs. The signs represent decades of pent-up infighting over theology, bureaucracy and human sexuality that finally brought the split to a climax this year with churches facing an end of the year deadline to seize an opportunity to leave and take their property with them.

It’s happening across America, as more than 7,200 congregations voted to leave, about 24 percent of the congregations in the denomination. It’s more obvious in the South. In the North Alabama Conference of the United Methodist Church, 348 churches left. In South Alabama and the Florida panhandle, 248 churches left and 45 filed a lawsuit saying they were prevented from leaving by the end of the year. Both North Alabama and the Alabama-West Florida Conference previously had more than 600 churches each.

Many towns across Alabama now have two Methodist churches instead of one. Many of those that left had to get rid of their old signs featuring the United Methodist cross and flame logos.

“The cross and flame logo is a trademark of the United Methodist Church,” said the Rev. Steve West, pastor of First United Methodist Church of Jacksonville. West was the founding pastor from 1995-2004 of Morningstar Methodist Church in Chelsea, which left the denomination this year.

“I didn’t meddle in their decision,” West said. “I was personally sad.”

When the church got rid of its red and black metal cross and flame signs, it offered them to West, whose church remained in the denomination.I took them up on it,” West said.

Gift of a cross and flame

He gave one metal cross and flame logo to a new church start called Abundant Grace in Albertville, where people from several congregations who wanted to remain United Methodist started a new fellowship after the Albertville First Methodist Church disaffiliated.

“We don’t have it up yet,” said the Rev. Carol Gullatt, pastor of Abundant Grace. “We’re meeting at the Chamber of Commerce right now.”

That group of about 20 people also has a Wednesday night Bible study at an Albertville bakery, Gullatt said. “It’s been going slow, but it’s been a wonderful time of having meaningful conversations that help us name our values,” she said.

So far, there’s no building to put the cross and flame logo on, but there could be one day. “We haven’t done our mission church application, but we are functioning as a United Methodist church,” Gullatt said.

West gave another cross and flame logo to Pell City First United Methodist Church, where the dynamics of the split were as dramatic as anywhere. The 800-member church, with nearly 300 attending a church meeting a year ago, voted 65 percent to leave the denomination, but fell three votes short of the two-thirds majority needed to disaffiliate.

“That added to the turmoil of the whole process,” said the Rev. Rachel Gonia, who remains as senior pastor of Pell City First United Methodist. “People knew it was a majority that wanted to disaffiliate. There were rumors in town that something nefarious happened. Some people didn’t understand that it required a two-thirds majority.”

About 200 people left and began a new congregation, called New Life, with the Rev. Wes Savage, the former associate minister at Pell City First, as pastor. That group, which has not yet affiliated with another denomination, has already bought property on U.S. 231 with plans for a future church, Gonia said.

The disaffiliation vote not only split the church, it split up some couples on Sunday mornings.

“We have some wives in this church, but the husbands in that church,” Gonia said.
WV4QSYZFFJCRHCUMHVJZMWFN3M.jpg
The Rev. Steve West presents a cross and flame logo to the Rev. Rachel Gonia, pastor of Pell City First United Methodist Church. The cross and flame formerly belonged to Morningstar Methodist in Chelsea, which has disaffiliated from the denomination.

Pell City First previously had two services on Sunday mornings, a traditional and contemporary. It now alternates between those two worship styles on Sunday mornings and just has one service to bring everyone together.

“That’s been well-received,” Gonia said. “It’s kept our congregation as one body. Before, people didn’t know each other as well. Now, they’re all together.”

LGBTQ activists in the denomination have been pushing for greater inclusion since 1972, when the General Conference adopted a phrase in the Book of Discipline taking the stance that the church “does not condone the practice of homosexuality and considers this practice incompatible with Christian teaching.”

While the “presenting issue” of the disaffiliations has been over whether the United Methodist Church will lift its ban on same-sex marriage and ordination of openly gay clergy, it also involves complex theological and church bureaucracy issues.

“There were lots of other reasons people left,” Gonia said. “For many of the people who voted to stay, it was not so much about that issue.”

Many conservatives decided the denomination had become too liberal, so it was better to leave. Others had gripes with the way pastoral appointments are controlled by the bishop’s office, some wanted to have clear ownership of the church property, some wanted to keep their pastors, Gonia said.

“We’re just focused now on being welcoming, and being able to disagree,” she said.

New sign in Trussville

In Trussville, there’s a brand new sign out in front of Trussville First Methodist Church, replacing the one where the “United” was painted over for awhile. The new sign cost several thousand dollars and overall, the church spent more than $100,000 to make its transition to a new denomination, with much of that going to pay off its obligations to the North Alabama Conference to buy the property and pay off annual dues called apportionments, plus paying for pensions for previous pastors.

“What we didn’t take into consideration is how many things have a cross and flame on it,” said the Rev. Steve Strange, pastor of First Methodist Trussville, which is now affiliated with the Global Methodist Church, a new conservative-leaning denomination. “We changed the back awning, all the lettering on all the buses. We had to file for a new tax exemption, re-write bylaws and re-file those. We also had to change out our hymnals. We did go to a hymnal that returns to our roots.”

More than 3,800 churches have affiliated with the Global Methodist Church since it launched last year, including most but not all of the churches that disaffiliated in Alabama, Strange said. Many have remained independent or joined the Free Methodist Church or the Foundry network of churches.

The new sign at Trussville First features the words, “A Global Congregation,” to indicate its new affiliation, but that part of the sign is an easily removable piece, just in case. “I think we’ll stay Global,” Strange said. “You just never know down the road.”

Even road signs that say, “United Methodist Church two miles ahead,” had to be changed, Strange said.

Church linens that line the altar and robes worn by clergy had to be given away to United Methodist clergy and churches, he said. “Half of ours had cross and flame on them,” Strange said.

Strange said that 83 people left the congregation after the disaffiliation vote. They took on the name All Saints’ United Methodist and moved east on U.S. 11, with services at an Episcopal church, Church of the Holy Cross, led by the Rev. David Teel, former associate at Trussville First.

But Trussville First Methodist has also attracted new members from other congregations that didn’t disaffiliate and wanted to be part of the Global Methodist Church, so attendance has remained at about 300, Strange said.

“We’re probably 50 members less out of 400,” said Strange, who was previously pastor at Riverchase United Methodist Church for nine years. Riverchase fell seven votes short of disaffiliation in its vote, so some who wanted to leave now attend Trussville, he said.

“We’ve picked people up from Riverchase, and Asbury, Huffman, Trinity, a lot of churches that didn’t vote,” Strange said.

Calm after storm?

At First United Methodist Church of Jacksonville, which avoided a disaffiliation vote, a calm has settled in, West said. Several families left anyway and started a new church that meets at the Hampton Inn in Jacksonville on Sunday evenings.

“The people who remained are having a fresh start and finding renewal, because the decision’s over,” West said. “A lot of churches are experiencing renewal and a refreshing openness. It’s painful, but then you move forward, and there’s renewal and refreshment.”

The signs now point to the future.

“I have a lot of hope,” West said. “These can become times of refreshing when you get back to basics. We’ll move forward.”
5L7NYQOMMNBQVBITG6YI72NAOE.jpg
First Methodist Church of Trussville, now associated with the Global Methodist Church, has a new sign.
 
That group of about 20 people also has a Wednesday night Bible study at an Albertville bakery, Gullatt said. “It’s been going slow, but it’s been a wonderful time of having meaningful conversations that help us name our values,” she said.
lol the ones that want to stay with the gay supporting fake church can't even get two dozen people.

So far, there’s no building to put the cross and flame logo on, but there could be one day.
Spoilers: No, no there won't.

The "united" methodist church will quickly go the way of the Episcopalians.
 
Funny thing is, the cross and flame logo is now unpopular in the leadership of the denomination, since they're afraid people will associate it with cross burning and the klan. So there's every chance the logo will be abandoned in the near future.
 
Who wouldn't want to worship the "holy and queer one" and your Methodist service?
Was it one of the Wesley brothers or George Whitfield who called God that? Truly, it has somehow slipped my mind.

Edit:
In South Alabama and the Florida panhandle, 248 churches left and 45 filed a lawsuit saying they were prevented from leaving by the end of the year.
Georgia has a fat black lady as the UMC bishop. She held up "disaffiliations" until last month, under threat of lawsuits.
 
Last edited:
lol the ones that want to stay with the gay supporting fake church can't even get two dozen people.


Spoilers: No, no there won't.

The "united" methodist church will quickly go the way of the Episcopalians.
Exactly as I suspected. Woke churches are sick jokes that go extinct in 10-20 years after being established.
Funny thing is, the cross and flame logo is now unpopular in the leadership of the denomination, since they're afraid people will associate it with cross burning and the klan. So there's every chance the logo will be abandoned in the near future.
Lol... Holy shit they are so woke they went full retard.

Best of luck to the real churches
 
I don't get why churches have to be inclusive.
The church was at its most powerful when it was unwavering in its principles and excommunicated those who deviated from them.

The faith version of "nothing of value is free"

Woke churches are sick jokes that go extinct in 10-20 years after being established.
Put the LCMS on that list.
media_F-Q-LJ1WQAA3SbM.jpg
 
I love America’s religiosity. Don‘t like the teachings of your church? Just schlep around until you find one that’s comfy. And everyone acts like this is normal and fine.

“This is religion, boy! Not comparison bloody shopping! Thou Shalt Not Subject Thy God To Market Forces!”
 
Georgia has a fat black lady as the UMC bishop. She held up "disaffiliations" until last month, under threat of lawsuits.
The temporary agreement established only gave churches until the end of 2023 to disaffiliate with their property intact, after that it becomes ugly. They still had to have the local bishop's approval, which is why they're all jumping ship now. The next General Conference is going to be stacked with progressive types and not even the non-American churches will be able to push back this time. It's going to get ugly for any church that waits.

I love America’s religiosity. Don‘t like the teachings of your church? Just schlep around until you find one that’s comfy. And everyone acts like this is normal and fine.

“This is religion, boy! Not comparison bloody shopping! Thou Shalt Not Subject Thy God To Market Forces!”
This one's a bit different, since it's rooted in the "Traditionalist" side being pissed about the "progressive" side of the church doing their own thing, violating the Book of Discipline and Progressive bishops not enforcing it, at least on the subject of openly active homosexuals in church leadership and gay marriage. Instead of waiting to try and change the Book of Discipline, the Progs just started gay marrying people and the like, because surprisingly, the Progs got smacked down at the last General Conference. We were supposed to have an official thing to start the process of splitting the church back in 2020, but COVID happened, so now it's a mess. To add to that, the number of delegates for each region is determined at the end of each General Conference, so even though the various regions in America are losing non-Progressive churches, those regions will still get the same number of delegates. Who will likely be more progressives.

It's a huge fucking mess, but who would have guessed the Methodists would be the mainline American Protestant denomination that would have beaten their progtards? COVID fucked up a lot.
 
The "united" methodist church will quickly go the way of the Episcopalians.
In fairness to the Episcopalians, they went through the same thing, but unlike the Methodists when faced with similar schismatism, the Episcopalian church refused to relinquish property rights. The end result being the official Episcopal church ended up empty on Sunday, while the "Actual" church met at the American Legion hall or a hotel ball room. It didn't end well unfortunately as most of the Episcopal churches died on the vine after that. So now the Episcopal Church is a strictly Urban and Elite institution with alot of empty lots owned all across America. They go through the motions to preserve ownership, usually assigning a Deacon to the empty building who will go there every Sunday to conduct morning prayer to an empty room before leaving and making sure a vagrant wasn't squatting in the vestry.

It was increadibly petty and self destructive in retrospect. None of those old Churches will survive in the coming decades, since nobody is using them. And its not like the Episcopal Church actually will derive any value from them either.
 
LGBTQ activists in the denomination have been pushing for greater inclusion since 1972, when the General Conference adopted a phrase in the Book of Discipline taking the stance that the church “does not condone the practice of homosexuality and considers this practice incompatible with Christian teaching.”

While the “presenting issue” of the disaffiliations has been over whether the United Methodist Church will lift its ban on same-sex marriage and ordination of openly gay clergy, it also involves complex theological and church bureaucracy issues.

“There were lots of other reasons people left,” Gonia said. “For many of the people who voted to stay, it was not so much about that issue.”
Why don't 'LGBTQ activists' leave and join the Episcopagans or the Jewnitarians?
 
I love America’s religiosity. Don‘t like the teachings of your church? Just schlep around until you find one that’s comfy. And everyone acts like this is normal and fine.
That is normal in a pluralistic society. People pick and choose among cults, selecting whichever one fulfills their emotional needs or answers their existential questions or gives them higher social standing. This happens even in nominally unitary religions: first century Jews had Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes; various Christian movements now considered schismatic or heretical coexisted with what would become orthodox Christianity for a while; Buddhists have Therevada and Mahayana schools; Muslims have Sunni and Shia and Sufi; etc. The alignment of religion and state in pre-modern Europe (cuius regio, eius religio) suppressed this tendency, often with extreme violence. Some states still do this. I like our way better.
 
I love America’s religiosity. Don‘t like the teachings of your church? Just schlep around until you find one that’s comfy. And everyone acts like this is normal and fine.

“This is religion, boy! Not comparison bloody shopping! Thou Shalt Not Subject Thy God To Market Forces!”
Isn't finding a Church where you're happy more important and conducive to peaceful neighborhoods and content citizenry than dogmatic one-size-fits-all (and possibly forced by state or gunpoint) monotheism?

I would argue it is.

It seems like a lot of people just aren't happy no matter what you do vis-a-vis personal faith.

Never question it? Follow it to the letter? You're a brainwashed fundie who still thinks the world is flat and that eating shellfish dooms you to Hell.

Deciding the teachings of your faith are counter-productive and contradictory? - You never had any faith to begin with you absolute hypocrite! Might as well become an agnostic.
 
Back
Top Bottom