Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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Borplesnort said:
I had a running theory that the dark worlds show a "truth" of an object to some degree, and Kris turns cyanotic blue because he's essentially a walking corpse animated by a foreign soul. I don't think he's actually a zombie. More conceptually.

He definitely can't survive without us though. In Noelle's house, after he puts the soul back in, he collapses and has to compose himself for a second. Seems like he couldn't handle that level of activity for very long without the soul.
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I saw a theory on Twitter where people were schitzo-posting Deltarune theories.

Somebody pointed out that Kris' Dark World color palette nearly matches Dess' room. I found this picture on Google.
what-does-it-mean-v0-qpsaatmrt2gf1.webp
 
Hey why is nobody talking about how tv world has two dark fountains
Screenshot_20250731-213916.webp
Screenshot_20250731-214049.webp
These are the same room, directly to the left of the Christmas tree and directly to the right. Does Kris's house have a second dark world hidden somewhere?
 
Dr. Ricearoni said:
Hey why is nobody talking about how tv world has two dark fountains
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These are the same room, directly to the left of the Christmas tree and directly to the right. Does Kris's house have a second dark world hidden somewhere?
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I think the end of Chapter 3 was just rushed. I didn't save after the battle with Tenna because I thought there would be at least some travelling segment to reach the fountain, but then the Knight shows up, beats my ass and the chapter ends. Had to beat Tenna again when I reloaded to fight the Knight.
 
Incorrigible Bigotry said:
I think the end of Chapter 3 was just rushed. I didn't save after the battle with Tenna because I thought there would be at least some travelling segment to reach the fountain, but then the Knight shows up, beats my ass and the chapter ends. Had to beat Tenna again when I reloaded to fight the Knight.
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That was kind of intentional. After chapters 1 and 2, you're comfortable with going to close the fountain after the big boss because that's what you've already done twice. And you're genuinely supposed to lose to the Knight the first time, and make the choice on whether or not you want to refight Tenna to try them again.
 
Dr. Ricearoni said:
Hey why is nobody talking about how tv world has two dark fountains
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I was wondering that too. I had assumed maybe it was a theatrical thing, like it was a curved path that led to the fountain. Though that would be interesting if there was a second fountain in the house. Where would it be hidden? The fridge? Under Toriel's bed?
 
Borplesnort said:
I was wondering that too. I had assumed maybe it was a theatrical thing, like it was a curved path that led to the fountain. Though that would be interesting if there was a second fountain in the house. Where would it be hidden? The fridge? Under Toriel's bed?
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There's nowhere it can be hidden in the house. Kris lets us see every room except Toriel's, and I doubt she wouldn't notice one in her room. Is it possible the second fountain in the background was the Bunker? Kris knows about it, and if the scenery wasn't a perspective trick, it could explain the second one being so far away.
 
Dumpster dived waifu said:
There's nowhere it can be hidden in the house. Kris lets us see every room except Toriel's, and I doubt she wouldn't notice one in her room. Is it possible the second fountain in the background was the Bunker? Kris knows about it, and if the scenery wasn't a perspective trick, it could explain the second one being so far away.
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Assuming the orientation of the dark world matches the orientation of the light world, the dark fountain would be north while the bunker and the school are south. It could be somewhere in the backyard maybe, we never see what's behind the house.
Edit: I forgot, the house from the outside is flipped 45 degrees when you enter, meaning the fountain wouldn't be to the north, it'd be to the east. There's plenty of places it could be to the east of the house, but I think the most interesting potential location is around the lake.
 
I don't think there's a second fountain in Kris's house. Ralsei mentions that he saw the abandoned classroom fountain in the east in chapter one, it probably means that you can see other dark fountains from any dark world. We couldn't see the fountain from the library or the sanctuary dark worlds due to them being obscured by the city or being in the interior of a building. I do wonder if that's related to how Ralsei gets around. Maybe every dark world is connected.
 
The only instance where we see two fountains in the same shot is Ch1 at the end of ralsei's monologue, in the light world the dark fountain happened to be in the next room (unused classroom). So if we want to go with that theory it must be a place which is nextdoor to the Dreemurrs, could it be in the Holiday/Catti residence? (Neighbors)

As much as I love the "two fountains" theory, I'm gonna go with the new tranny/tumblr art team fucked up theory
 
Borplesnort said:
I don't think there's a second fountain in Kris's house. Ralsei mentions that he saw the abandoned classroom fountain in the east in chapter one, it probably means that you can see other dark fountains from any dark world. We couldn't see the fountain from the library or the sanctuary dark worlds due to them being obscured by the city or being in the interior of a building. I do wonder if that's related to how Ralsei gets around. Maybe every dark world is connected.
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Then Lancer, Rouxls, starwalker etc wouldn't need to be moved around by lightners. Unless they just aren't powerful enough to leave darkworlds on their own?
 
Two Dollars said:
The girl from Ralsei’s version of the prophecy is clearly Susie, but the actual prophecy is more vague. But as for points against it being Susie:
  • The “big barney nose” is much higher up and looks more like the lip of a cloak, like Noelle’s dark world cloak.
  • The girl has a sword. Susie can’t equip swords, but Noelle can.
  • The way the prophecy talks about the female hero followed by “at last was the girl” (complete with Rude Buster symbol) implies they’re two different people.
  • “LOVE FINDS ITS WAY TO THE GIRL” could mean the girl from the prophecy falls in love… or it could mean LOVE (Level of Violence) takes control of the girl, which fits perfectly with us taking control of Noelle in the weird route. The picture even shows a heart on the girl, like the soul inside Noelle.
There’s some other stuff like how we can always order Noelle around but Susie is able to disobey us and defy the prophecy, but those are the main points.
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I do get the feeling that Susie has altered the prophecy in some way simply by nature of being in a place where she shouldn't have been at the right moment, but not dramatically enough where Ralsei has noticed any kind of actual change. The same big events still happen, Susie has more or less just filled in a role meant for someone else.

She burst in at the last second at school and got partnered up with Kris, whereas in the intended original prophesied timeline Kris would've tripled up with Noelle and Birdly then Alphys would've sent Noelle and Kris to get the chalk where they'd be sucked in and meet Ralsei.

There's simply too many hints towards Noelle being part of the prophecy for it to be a coincidence, especially since she's never mentioned as a separate entity once despite being directly involved with events that the prophecy DOES mention. It directly speaks about the events of the city and Queen but never mentions a fourth hero or other person tagging along, despite Noelle being central to the plot of Ch 2. Why? Simple, because if Susie didn't exist then Kris would've been studying with Berdly and Noelle to begin with when the fountain was opened. The same events would've happened as prophesied but Noelle wouldn't be a random hostage, she'd be the girl.
 
Big Shot said:
The only instance where we see two fountains in the same shot is Ch1 at the end of ralsei's monologue, in the light world the dark fountain happened to be in the next room (unused classroom). So if we want to go with that theory it must be a place which is nextdoor to the Dreemurrs, could it be in the Holiday/Catti residence? (Neighbors)

As much as I love the "two fountains" theory, I'm gonna go with the new tranny/tumblr art team fucked up theory
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I thought that at first too, but then Tricky Tony would've fixed it by now. If he was willing to edit the rape scene he's willing to edit a background. It just feels very deliberate how it's set up. You can't even argue it's a perspective thing either. I've crudely edited together a wide shot of the room to show both dark fountains to put it into perspective.

trickytony.webp
It just feels shockingly deliberate when you look at it like this.
 
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Dr. Ricearoni said:
If he was willing to edit the rape scene he's willing to edit a background.
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I mean the difference being that people got assmad over the rape scene but I'm pretty sure 99.9% of people never noticed that a background at the end of ch3 doesn't make sense. Toby could genuinely have just missed this.


If you want to get into theorizing it could just be the Grand Fountain in the distance or something. Given the CH3 dark world was created by Kris it'd make some level of sense that his world would be able to see another fountain he has a deep emotional connection with on the horizon.
 
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Raisincrest said:
Somebody pointed out that Kris' Dark World color palette nearly matches Dess' room.
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The pallete may just be restricted, for whatever reason. Some colours are from the default Microsoft roaster, while others are more modern.


You know, while the art isn't that great in my opinion, I figured it could've improved if the devs used a 256-colour pallete - this is the same one that Earthbound used, which ideas are stolen inspiration is taken from in this case. Maybe they utilise it to an extent, but most of the game has a very small colour pool, the environments look bland after you see them more than once.
 
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