Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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(she thinks it's a dream)
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"It is ok, I was going to throw you into the garbage can in that alley tomorrow"
It always fucking kills me when I see people say shit like this, because what you're unintentionally implying is that literally the only appeal these games have is validating your worldview. Not the music, not the gameplay, not the humor, not the visuals, not the characters, no, the fucking gender politics.
You've cracked the code. This is how most people interact with media they consume nowadays, be it books, video games, movies, music, etc. They only view it through the narrow scope of "The author is a good guy, like me, who votes for the good guys, so the main character must be a good guy like us if we aren't meant to hate him." For Deltarune, it is gender politics only because the opportunity arose for it to be viewed that way. In their mind, it's not enough that you could think of Kris as nonbinary, you have to view him as such because Toby Fox explicitly used a gender neutral pronoun, and that's the way they read the usage of "they."

The other interpretation, that Kris's gender is up for the player to decide, is always met with disgust because the people who would think of it that way generally don't share the same political views as those who don't think of it that way. People confuse preconceived notions for pattern recognition, so they're not likely to actually engage with your opinion because they've already marked you down in their mind as their enemy. You can apply this line of thinking to practically everyone in America, Canada, Britain, I guess any primarily English speaking nation and maybe a few English-adjacent speaking nations too.
 
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He knows his place in the racial hierarchy but then he gets angry and turns into incredible gasterry.
You will never be W.D. Gaster. You have no time powers, you have no holes in your hands, you didn’t fall into the Core. You are a comic relief skeleton twisted by puns and hoodies into a crude mockery of the underground’s perfection.
 
It always fucking kills me when I see people say shit like this, because what you're unintentionally implying is that literally the only appeal these games have is validating your worldview. Not the music, not the gameplay, not the humor, not the visuals, not the characters, no, the fucking gender politics.
Tumbl runs on an exaggerated version of this mentality. Occasionally, a post about something random, say, watercolours, would have the Tumblrina yell 'BACK OFF TERFS!!!!!' Never mind tha this assumes that everyone accused of being a TERF is a Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist… or that actual TERFs only think about hating transgender people and recruiting others.


If I think lesbian couples are annoying and cringe does that suddenly mean Undertale is unplayable dreck because Undyne and Alphys exist? Of fucking course not. It's a fun game with good music and a neat cast.

Not everything needs to validate whatever random opinions I have 24/7 for me to be able to enjoy it, I'm not 12 or mentally retarded.
Th is the reason why we have a thread about dewokin games.
 
Whenever the knight's true and honest identity is revealed, I'm going to collapse into giggles if it turns out to be Carol instead of Dess. It would be even funnier if it was Rudy somehow. Everyone's fan theories and fanart just getting absolutely shafted by Tobertus would really make my day.

Carol being the Knight would also be pretty funny considering how straightlaced she is in the light world, while being a chuuni sword wielding maniac in the dark world.
 
Ye olde shooter games never forced you to commit warcrimes then called you a hero for it,
This was in the aftermath of MW2 having you shoot up an airport, Black Ops has you doing pretty excessively fucked up shit in all mainline entries, I agree that they weren't exactly having you punt Afghani babies over fences or anything but there was room for critique.
The fact that a massive chunk of Toby's fanbase cannot say the same makes me sad. For him.
Why do you think he only ever seems to embrace the Japanese half of the fandom? I am sure some part of him regrets attaining such a disgustingly huge base of lunatics, but he also keeps indulging them with the they/them bullshit, so...
 
Whenever the knight's true and honest identity is revealed, I'm going to collapse into giggles if it turns out to be Carol instead of Dess. It would be even funnier if it was Rudy somehow. Everyone's fan theories and fanart just getting absolutely shafted by Tobertus would really make my day.

Carol being the Knight would also be pretty funny considering how straightlaced she is in the light world, while being a chuuni sword wielding maniac in the dark world.
i feel like no matter who the knight ends up being, its gonna be a wild day online
 
Whenever the knight's true and honest identity is revealed, I'm going to collapse into giggles if it turns out to be Carol instead of Dess. It would be even funnier if it was Rudy somehow. Everyone's fan theories and fanart just getting absolutely shafted by Tobertus would really make my day.

Carol being the Knight would also be pretty funny considering how straightlaced she is in the light world, while being a chuuni sword wielding maniac in the dark world.
Carol being the night is the main theory I've seen anyway. It wouldn't be a shock
 
I might just be overreading Flowey as a character. My first interpretation was just "oh boy here we go, gotta get the avatar to tell me I'm a bad person", but maybe that's just me having Kojima fatigue at the time.
While this is pretty late, since I know where you're coming from now I can give my own answer to your original question. Deltarune doesn't really have any character who comes close to breaking the fourth wall like the Flowey or Sans do, but the game's writing does have a meta element to it, but it's different from Undertale. In Deltarune it gets a little meta with how it plays with the idea of freedom that's present through out the plot.

The game starts with an unknown person talking to you, the player, directly to guide you through a character creation process, but after making your "vessel" the voice is interrupted by another voice telling you your vessel has been thrown out because no one can choose who they are, at which point the game shifts to you controlling the game's pre-set protagonist Kris. The rest of chapter 1 just seems normal as far as you controlling Kris like he's a silent JRPG protagonist with some minor dialogue choices, but starting with chapter 1's end scene and into later chapters it becomes clear that the soul inside him (it pops up as a heart in battle or dialogue options like in Undertale) is not his own soul. So far, it's implied the soul was meant to go in the body you created at the start, but was redirected somehow to go into Kris.

You, the player, aren't actually controlling Kris directly, you're controlling the soul, which can influence what Kris does and says. So this leads into a sort of meta conflict, as what you and Kris want isn't necessarily the same, and Kris will sometimes subvert the actions you choose to do, like taking a choice literally in way that doesn't have its intended effect (like you choose to open a door so you can look into a room, but Kris opens it with his eyes closed so the narration can't actually describe what's in the room), or if he really doesn't want to say a dialogue choice he'll do something like muffle it under a fake cough or quietly mumble it with his mouth closed. It also causes some character who know Kris already to occasionally comment he's acting strange, because of the player having him do things he wouldn't normally do.

This ends up tying into the freedom idea. There's a prophecy that ends in some kind of tragedy that several characters want to avoid, which is talked about times ("I want to believe there's not just one ending!") in way that brings to mind a player not wanting to be stuck following the game's plot to a pre-set bad ending. Some characters have a fatalistic view on things, sometimes leaning on the fourth wall with telling you your choices don't matter, and on the other hand there's some characters that do crazy things in the hopes of attaining some kind of sought-after freedom. One major character in chapter 2 talks to Kris about this want for freedom in a way that comes off as layered, as it can refer to Kris wanting to be free from the soul's (your) influence, but can also be taken as referring to how you, the player, want the freedom change how the story goes. It seems to want to give the sense that you, the player, likely want your game choices to matter and allow you to break out of the prophecy along with your party members, but you're constantly frustrated by things happening in ways that negate or preempt your choices so you have no major affect on the plot, ie. the prophecy keeps going, with the antagonists (including Kris it seems subverting your choices) wanting to keep things on track. And addtionally, the game does have a secret alternate route you can enter in chapter 2 that so far has major changes to that chapter and chapter 4, but it's kind of an evil route that comes with the implication that's it's possibly breaking the prophecy for the worse rather than the better, but it's so far the only way you can achieve the "freedom" to change how things go.
 
Double-post, but Toby put out the Winter newsletter.

tl;dr the Japanese translation for Chapter 5 has just started, and while that's happening the chapter still needs to some more polish on the visuals and some bullet patterns, and be bugtested, so he expects the chapter will be out in a few months, by which point the team will be working fully on Chapter 6.

As a preview, he dropped a video of an optional scene in the Mike room if you still have Tenna in your town, and the new shop music for Chapter 5.

Also shows off a couple shirt designs and front album cover from the Square Enix merch collaboration that's happening.
 

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Double-post, but Toby put out the Winter newsletter.

tl;dr the Japanese translation for Chapter 5 has just started, and while that's happening the chapter still needs to some more polish on the visuals and some bullet patterns, and be bugtested, so he expects the chapter will be out in a few months, by which point the team will be working fully on Chapter 6.

As a preview, he dropped a video of an optional scene in the Mike room if you still have Tenna in your town, and the new shop music for Chapter 5.

Also shows off a couple shirt designs and front album cover from the Square Enix merch collaboration that's happening.
>the entire game including chapters 6 and 7 is done but you can't play it until i translate it into japanese and port it to consoles (but not xbox because that is filthy american console)
>this is my revenge on you gaijins for hiroshima. for the glory of the emperor!


damn toby, tone it down a bit.
 
>the entire game including chapters 6 and 7 is done but you can't play it until i translate it into japanese and port it to consoles (but not xbox because that is filthy american console)
>this is my revenge on you gaijins for hiroshima. for the glory of the emperor!


damn toby, tone it down a bit.
it hasn't been put through testing yet, either
 
Why do you think he only ever seems to embrace the Japanese half of the fandom? I am sure some part of him regrets attaining such a disgustingly huge base of lunatics, but he also keeps indulging them with the they/them bullshit, so...
I don’t understand this one. Toby could easily let the discourse quietly die out in favor of Kris’s gender being up to interpretation, but he keeps adding fuel to the fire by revealing that some random NPC uses they/them pronouns every five minutes. Would anything be lost by saying Seam is male when he’s very clearly supposed to be male?
Spamtenna shippers on suicide watch
 
but he keeps adding fuel to the fire by revealing that some random NPC uses they/them pronouns every five minutes
And yet he says nothing about the main character of the game. It's like a subtly way of saying "Kris has no set gender," except subtlety is useless
 
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