UN UK Snap election 8th June 2017 - Oh boy another U turn.

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Ponderous Pillock said:
And now the fun begins:

Survation (Mail on Sunday) Puts the standings at:

CON 40%
LAB 29%
LD 11%
UKIP 11%
SNP 4%
GRE 2%
Other 3%

Comres (Sunday Mirror):

Conservatives 50% (+4)

Lab 25% (NC)

Liberal Democrats 11% (NC)

UKIP 7% (-2)

SNP 4% (NC)

Green 3% (-1)

Other 1% (-1)

Survation will give a majority of 48, which is decent enough and workable.

Comres would give a majority of 186 which is larger than even Blair's 1997 landslide.
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I'm kind of baffled by recent british politics, I don't know how the conservatives stay in power, it seemed to me the UK was going to be going left after Cameron, I get that giving labour the keys to the treasury and country are the last thing most people want...but wtf happened?

Am I just underestimating how much people don't like Corbyn?

And why did labour decide to go so so so far left. Isn't labours sweet spot the tony blair kind of labour?
 
I don't know why no party is currently pushing for a different voting system, this general election is a good example of how FPTP promotes tactical voting.

Also with the local elections on Thursday will we'll See if the new polling methods are more accurate!
 
Darndirty said:
I'm kind of baffled by recent british politics, I don't know how the conservatives stay in power, it seemed to me the UK was going to be going left after Cameron, I get that giving labour the keys to the treasury and country are the last thing most people want...but wtf happened?

Am I just underestimating how much people don't like Corbyn?

And why did labour decide to go so so so far left. Isn't labours sweet spot the tony blair kind of labour?
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Best of a bad bunch.

It's the British way.

Labour went so so so far left because of the unions by the way.
 
Darndirty said:
And why did labour decide to go so so so far left. Isn't labours sweet spot the tony blair kind of labour?
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qPMoaka.png
 
Darndirty said:
I'm kind of baffled by recent british politics, I don't know how the conservatives stay in power, it seemed to me the UK was going to be going left after Cameron, I get that giving labour the keys to the treasury and country are the last thing most people want...but wtf happened?

Am I just underestimating how much people don't like Corbyn?

And why did labour decide to go so so so far left. Isn't labours sweet spot the tony blair kind of labour?
Click to expand...

Tony Blair's labour was basically "nice thatcherism" buuuuuut it got the priorities wrong for what Brits actually like.

Brits are all generally small c conservatives, economically they like it when the state intervenes to save jobs but don't want them meddling too much in people's private lives.

The other thing you have to bare in mind the Conservative Party is the oldest established political party in the world. It's been kicking around in its modern form since 1826 (yeah, really, just 11 years after Waterloo) and has its origins as far back as the early 1700s. Its a bizarrely smart beast which evolves when it needs to and this is why its held most political power for the past two centuries.

Right now under May its evolving into a patriotic, but economically open, political force which has quite the appeal to the general british public. It may in time become more "protectionist" but only to safe guard jobs here like the recent issues surrounding Port Talbot, which are headline winners.

Its the only one of the three major parties which seem to have actually come to terms internally and externally about Brexit and its process. Which is appealing.

Any Tory remainers who are still staunch in their support are saying they publically accept the result, while both Labour and the Lib Dems seem to keep hinting at wanting neverendums until we give the "correct" answer.

Even May has managed to get away with calling herself a "reluctant remainer" and drape herself in the Union Jack as quickly as she could once she realised how the wind is blowing. She's the only stable looking leader out of the lot.

Meanwhile, Team Corbyn continue to wheel out car crashes like Dianne Abbot who gave this wonderful interview:

 
Darndirty said:
I'm kind of baffled by recent british politics, I don't know how the conservatives stay in power, it seemed to me the UK was going to be going left after Cameron, I get that giving labour the keys to the treasury and country are the last thing most people want...but wtf happened?

Am I just underestimating how much people don't like Corbyn?

And why did labour decide to go so so so far left. Isn't labours sweet spot the tony blair kind of labour?
Click to expand...
A lot of the current General Election is to do with Brexit, also Corbyn really isn't very popular outside of his fanatical support base and Corbyn and his supporters (Momentum) HATE Blair/Blairites, it's as if they'd rather the party burn to the ground than let in another Labour leader like Blair or Brown.

Anyway Corbyn got in (With his more leftist views) because of a 2015 leadership voting change where the party now has a one member one vote system, there was a large member increase at the time and ever since the party haven't been able to get rid of him despite trying.

But Corbyn's support base isn't what you might think (They're not traditional working class Labour supporters) they are mostly rich people living in wealthy inner city areas which for a party that's meant to be about helping the working class is quite strange.
 
Pickle Inspector said:
A lot of the current General Election is to do with Brexit, also Corbyn really isn't very popular outside of his fanatical support base and Corbyn and his supporters (Momentum) HATE Blair/Blairites, it's as if they'd rather the party burn to the ground than let in another Labour leader like Blair or Brown.

Anyway Corbyn got in (With his more leftist views) because of a 2015 leadership voting change where the party now has a one member one vote system, there was a large member increase at the time and ever since the party haven't been able to get rid of him despite trying.

But Corbyn's support base isn't what you might think (They're not traditional working class Labour supporters) they are mostly rich people living in wealthy inner city areas which for a party that's meant to be about helping the working class is quite strange.
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Well I'll take this time to ask a couple more questions if you guys don't mind.

Do you tthink Scotland will want another chance at separation post brexit? I know the Scots love their euro masters. I don't think if they knew you guys were gonna leave the EU they would have voted ton remain.

This may be a dumb question but brexit is a certainty at this point right? Or are the opposition trying to fight it in courts still.

And lastly wtf is with boris johnsons face?
 
Darndirty said:
Well I'll take this time to ask a couple more questions if you guys don't mind.

Do you tthink Scotland will want another chance at separation post brexit? I know the Scots love their euro masters. I don't think if they knew you guys were gonna leave the EU they would have voted ton remain.

This may be a dumb question but brexit is a certainty at this point right? Or are the opposition trying to fight it in courts still.

And lastly wtf is with boris johnsons face?
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Scotland will probably have another referendum between 2017 and 2022, its just a matter of when.

Brexit is a certainty. Article 50 has been triggered, there is no going back. The only question is what deal we'll get from the EU.

Presumably Boris' face was created while he was being buggered in Eton by his good friend David Cameron.
 
Darndirty said:
Well I'll take this time to ask a couple more questions if you guys don't mind.

Do you tthink Scotland will want another chance at separation post brexit? I know the Scots love their euro masters. I don't think if they knew you guys were gonna leave the EU they would have voted ton remain.

This may be a dumb question but brexit is a certainty at this point right? Or are the opposition trying to fight it in courts still.

And lastly wtf is with boris johnsons face?
Click to expand...

The SNP wants another crack at it, but they're sounding increasingly desperate due to their slowly worsening poll positions (The tories might even be on course to capture nearly 30 seats in the scottish parliaments wonky voting system, and maybe 4-5 seats in Westminster) which'd make them the only party with a strong presence in nearly all of the UK.

While the SNP bitches and whines about it non-stop, some polling suggests about 60%-70% are not in favour of yet another referendum and while Scotland did vote to stay in the EU... that number was about 900,000 less than those who voted to stay with the UK as a whole.

As to Brexit being a certainty by this point... well there's a quote which I've managed to misplace which is about how you don't get in the way of the will of the british people because they will fucking steamroller you. The Tories know this and are busy capitalizing on it (hence the high polling) while the Lib Dems and Labour... are not.

Also nobody knows, but we love him all the same. The press love him because he will cheerfully humiliate himself for a photo op and the public love him because of the "anti-politician" that he is, which is the polar opposite of most politicians which is a veneer of incompetence hiding a terrifying intellect.
 
Pickle Inspector said:
But Corbyn's support base isn't what you might think (They're not traditional working class Labour supporters) they are mostly rich people living in wealthy inner city areas which for a party that's meant to be about helping the working class is quite strange.
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That Gruniad piece talks about the new £3 members but completely ignores those like me who have been Labour members since before Blair, never trusted the bugger and would like an actual socialist as leader.

Unfortunately, because of the purges of the left of the party during the Blair years and the parachuting in of "core Labour supporters" like Tristram Hunt, the current PLP is made up of PLU SpAds who Old Labour don't trust, or the Old Labour barnacles who Blair et al couldnt winkle out of their seats like Corbyn, Abbott and Skinner, who nobody is going to vote for outside of their constituency.

The Labour Party is going to be screwed for at least 5 years and probably closer to 10 before they sort this mess out.
Which doesn't particularly bother me right now, as May is a One Nation Tory, which is kinda Socialism Lite anyway, and the pragmatist in me trusts the Tories with Brexit negotiations more than I would trust the other parties.
 
Ponderous Pillock said:
The SNP wants another crack at it, but they're sounding increasingly desperate due to their slowly worsening poll positions (The tories might even be on course to capture nearly 30 seats in the scottish parliaments wonky voting system, and maybe 4-5 seats in Westminster) which'd make them the only party with a strong presence in nearly all of the UK.

While the SNP bitches and whines about it non-stop, some polling suggests about 60%-70% are not in favour of yet another referendum and while Scotland did vote to stay in the EU... that number was about 900,000 less than those who voted to stay with the UK as a whole.

As to Brexit being a certainty by this point... well there's a quote which I've managed to misplace which is about how you don't get in the way of the will of the british people because they will fucking steamroller you. The Tories know this and are busy capitalizing on it (hence the high polling) while the Lib Dems and Labour... are not.

Also nobody knows, but we love him all the same. The press love him because he will cheerfully humiliate himself for a photo op and the public love him because of the "anti-politician" that he is, which is the polar opposite of most politicians which is a veneer of incompetence hiding a terrifying intellect.
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Lib Dems are doing as well as they could be, they basically made themselves the official protest party for Remainers and nobody is talking about the Libdem/Tory coalition or the student fee u-turn which is just as well with their typical student voter base.
 
Chemical snorfare said:
That Gruniad piece talks about the new £3 members but completely ignores those like me who have been Labour members since before Blair, never trusted the bugger and would like an actual socialist as leader.
Click to expand...

Have to bare in mind as well is a lot of those purges were actually conducted under Kinnock and John Smith who'd have probably gone on to be PM had he not died so young.

This was the big problem Militant actually posed and Smith really was the last leader who likely could've created proper compromise before the guts "had" to be ripped out by Blair and Brown's cabal, he was old labour enough that he didn't have to endlessly justify he tactics under the monicker of "modernization and republicanism" which proceeded to infest the Blair govt to the point of absurdity and an outright diplomatic incident with Ireland.
 
Enclave Supremacy said:
Fuck me it looks awful.

Scottish_Parliament_building%2C_Holyrood.jpg

Who seriously thinks that these things look good? Kinda reminds me of Middlesbrough College:

JS22314434.jpg
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Do you see that vaguely neo classical building in the top left? That is the royal high school and was originally built as a home for the proposed scottish assembly.

The iberian abomination they built after 99 is an absolute travesty.
 
Darndirty said:
I'm kind of baffled by recent british politics, I don't know how the conservatives stay in power, it seemed to me the UK was going to be going left after Cameron, I get that giving labour the keys to the treasury and country are the last thing most people want...but wtf happened?

Am I just underestimating how much people don't like Corbyn?

And why did labour decide to go so so so far left. Isn't labours sweet spot the tony blair kind of labour?
Click to expand...

With Cameron's attacks on education, healthcare and worker's rights, the UK started shifting right from 2010. Up until then Labour were basically centrists who put lots of money into welfare. The rescession made a lot of people very worried, and as history has proven time and time again, the right wing rises when people are scared about the future.

The Conservatives are in power largely because they have no significant opposition. Under Blair, Labour became more and more similar to the Conservatives, and they apparently still don't understand how this allows the tories to steal votes from them.

When Miliband lost the 2015 election, Labour were content to put up another Red Tory candidate. They didn't expect Corbyn to have massive public support though. His platform was essentially "Hey guys, what if the party of the Left...was actually left-wing?" Ever since then he's been attacked constantly by the media (which is mostly right-wing) and his own Blairite MP's.

But having completely trashed his opposition in TWO elections, it's clear he's well supported by party members. Most of the Corbyn-hate is just a forced meme, sure the elites and rivals have a reason not to like him, but the worst anybody seems to be able to come up with is "B-b-but he won't win!".

Simply electing a lefty leader doesn't make a party left-wing though. They're still over there on the right, just not as far as the rabid Tories.

(Also concerning your query on Brexit, the opposition was never fighting it in the court. The court battle was to prevent the government from illegally invoking Article 50, in the UK you require the parliment to pass laws because that is why it exists, the PM can't just say 'This is law now', that's not allowed. She apparently thought it would be alright just this one time though, don't ask us why)

Ponderous Pillock said:
Its the only one of the three major parties which seem to have actually come to terms internally and externally about Brexit and its process
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The recent meeting with Juncker would imply otherwise, our government was apparently surprised by the most predictable of reactions, which really doesn't bode well considering they're going to be negotiating on behalf of the nation.
Also it's been nearly a year and there literally is no plan which hardly qualifies as "coming to terms".

Lorento said:
Mrs May has decided to take the plunge.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39787353

I think she has several points.
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I mean since the election is now underway, on one hand you can see the logic behind this. It's a similar tactic you see in tabloid headlines, it evokes a bit of sensationalism and patriotism and it's a tried and tested way to get people to buy your newspaper/vote for your party. "Those foreign Brussels Bureaucrats are meddling in OUR democracy! Also, can coconuts cure cancer??? Page 13 will SHOCK you!"

But on the other hand...this is our Prime Minister. Who is going to be negotiating our future relationship with the EU. We don't have to stay in their club, we don't need to be best friends, but we do need European trade on some level. And she just basically accused them all of sabotage. To score points in an election she already knows she's going to win.
Either Juncker got her legit buttmad or she actually thinks the risk is worth it. Either way, her influence in the EU negotiations must be kept to an absolute minimum if we want any silver linings.
 
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