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They have a whole trope page about it, called the "Politically Incorrect Villain", and their line of thought is "you can like any villain, but the moment a villain starts making racist statements/mistreating a woman/etc is when YOU OFFICIALLY CROSS THE LINE and can NOT like the character ever".

It's just...I'm just tired of tumblr policing everybody's tastes on fictional characters.
 
It's a strange thing about tumblr and things infected by it. You're not allowed to write "problematic evil" as far as I can tell which includes both sympathetic villains and anti-heroes in addition to villains who commit extra-serious offenses which seem to include things like racism, misgendering, rape, etc. Villains basically need to fall into a narrow "evil for no reason" category but still be at least somewhat sensitive about it.
That never made any sense to me. So we aren't allowed to write villains doing evil things? And we aren't allowed to acknowledge there is an actual morally grey area that some people happen to occupy? It's like we can't do anything that makes anyone uncomfortable, which essentially destroys the whole point of a villain.

If Tumblr were allowed to control actual fiction, all the best stories of the last decade or so wouldn't exist.
 
Don't know if this has been mentioned in the thread, but has anyone read the Transsexual page on TV tropes? Every time I remember it, I want to make an account on there and edit it, but I know it would be changed back in about 5 minutes anyways.
  • AFABnote /FAABnote /CAFABnote , AMABnote /MAABnote /CAMABnote and UABnote refer to the interpretation of a person's genitals by doctors/their parents at birth. These are modern terms used instead of MtF and FtM, since those terms exclude non-binary and intersex people. Calling someone's body a "female body" or "male body" can be misleading - a body has the gender of its owner, regardless of genitals (which unlike gender identity can be changed medically) or chromosomes (which you can't see anyway). It's still rude to ask a transgender person which of those they are, however, as those questions are invasive and privacy-violating ("Anyway, how's your sex life?"). A person can decide to share that, but if they don't, DON'T ASK. Same goes for transition-related questions. If you aren't close enough to someone to ask for their intensely personal medical details (would you ask a cisgender man about his penis size?), don't make an exception for people who are also stigmatized.
Oof. Y'know, I know we like to make fun of forced inclusivity such as this here at the Farms, but honestly what's worse is how it's all worded so... poorly. It's like the troper is preemptively scolding the reader for using microaggressions.

Plus the entire "terminology" section is clunky as hell, especially given that it's on the Transsexual trope page rather than, say, Useful Notes. Speaking of which, the Transgender Useful Notes page is considerably less autistic than it could've been. It's long, sure, but not as aggressive as one might expect.
 
That never made any sense to me. So we aren't allowed to write villains doing evil things? And we aren't allowed to acknowledge there is an actual morally grey area that some people happen to occupy? It's like we can't do anything that makes anyone uncomfortable, which essentially destroys the whole point of a villain.

We're once again going back to that point, but the way I see it, the Tumblr crowd can't have a villain that is not a cookie-cutter imitation of Voldemort (obviously evil, very general brand of "evil", physically unattractive and always gloating about how evil he is) without being labeled as "problematic" and such nonsense. A true Tumblr villian is at the same time the embodiment of pure evil BUT will respect the current social norms (such as gender identity) or be called a shitlord/be updated to respect the feelings of the modern viewers.
 
We're once again going back to that point, but the way I see it, the Tumblr crowd can't have a villain that is not a cookie-cutter imitation of Voldemort (obviously evil, very general brand of "evil", physically unattractive and always gloating about how evil he is) without being labeled as "problematic" and such nonsense. A true Tumblr villian is at the same time the embodiment of pure evil BUT will respect the current social norms (such as gender identity) or be called a shitlord/be updated to respect the feelings of the modern viewers.
basically a tumblr story with a tumblr villain would be
villain is a FUCKING WHITE CIS MALE!
villain does something minor
suddenly 50+ fat dangerhaired proud brave transpoc transwymmyn transpumpkinkin transmission transhelicoptor demihemisemiromantisexualsapioflowerpisssexual (25 of which have lost limbs) suddenly appear
the justice squad yell "RACIST! SEXIST! NAZI! I BET YOU USE PEPE!!"
then white fucking cis male stops everything and goes "you're right, i'm bad, sorry"
then the patreon link pops up
 
Tumblr has a really weird relationship with villains. They've been so caught up in identity politics that they order we must only currently have villains like Trump (evil racist/sexist/whateverist) and they mustn't be liked, or they must be punished by the narrative.

"Acceptable" villains are characters like Loki, who will murder and deceive anyone nearby, but give him a tragic backstory and make him "hot", and tumblr will cry for him to be redeemed. OTOH, the Joker is a shitlord not for killing and torturing so many innocent people, but for only abusing women (crippling Batgirl, his abuse of Harley). And obviously, anyone who likes the Joker is an evil misogynist who should be doxxed.

IDK if this post makes any sense but I guess that's a correct statement of the whole deals with morality in tumblr regarding fictional characters. I just think the trope page has always been rather dumb and childish and TVTropes would be better off without it.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PoliticallyIncorrectVillain
 
They have a whole trope page about it, called the "Politically Incorrect Villain", and their line of thought is "you can like any villain, but the moment a villain starts making racist statements/mistreating a woman/etc is when YOU OFFICIALLY CROSS THE LINE and can NOT like the character ever".

It's just...I'm just tired of tumblr policing everybody's tastes on fictional characters.
I'm just tired of Tumblr policing everybody. Fiction or otherwise.
 
Tumblr has a really weird relationship with villains. They've been so caught up in identity politics that they order we must only currently have villains like Trump (evil racist/sexist/whateverist) and they mustn't be liked, or they must be punished by the narrative.

"Acceptable" villains are characters like Loki, who will murder and deceive anyone nearby, but give him a tragic backstory and make him "hot", and tumblr will cry for him to be redeemed. OTOH, the Joker is a shitlord not for killing and torturing so many innocent people, but for only abusing women (crippling Batgirl, his abuse of Harley). And obviously, anyone who likes the Joker is an evil misogynist who should be doxxed.

IDK if this post makes any sense but I guess that's a correct statement of the whole deals with morality in tumblr regarding fictional characters. I just think the trope page has always been rather dumb and childish and TVTropes would be better off without it.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PoliticallyIncorrectVillain

I checked, we at ATT have this page too, and while I'd still argue it deserves to exist, since it is a valid type of villain in media, Tumblr is ironically asking for the Hays Code to make its revival in media, where if a villain was this type, they would be punished for it and could not escape negative consequences no matter what, which, if you want to be realistic, doesn't always happen. Sometimes these sorts of villains succeed and are never punished, that's true in reality, and for fiction to be realistic when depicting plausible villains, it must do likewise on occasion.

If anything, the feels over reals crowd is actually justifying the existence of this character archetype by their complaining, because if the villain triggered your political sensitivity, they did their job in making the audience mad, which is the point. The fact that hurts their feelings is irrelevant, that's the raison d'etre for the villain existing, whining about it is like griping that people have to breathe air.

And persecuting people for liking the villain is just idiotic. Fictional people are like real people, they can have their virtues and their horrors, sometimes in equal measure. The Joker is hilarious, but he's also abusive. I can laugh at his funny moments, but be disgusted by the abusive moments, and Tumblr is infantile if they can't accept fictional people, to be realistic in depiction, need to be like people in real life, with both redeemable (or at least neutral) qualities as well as despicable ones.

At the same time, fiction can be boring if these are the only villains you want, especially if you want a fictional strawman to stand in for real life people you hate. Fiction is not solely propaganda to make you feel better, nor should it always be, otherwise it will not challenge your feelings and emotions and make you think, and Tumblr is a hive of close minded fools if they believe otherwise.

And the trend of lionizing monsters if they look good and have tragic pasts is really stupid, and suggests to me a lot of Tumblr users have a twisted sense of morality if all it takes to accept a genocidal lunatic is a pretty face and a sob story.
 
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So is Kefka in that list for being mad as hell at Celes for stabbing him in the gut to the point where he practically calls her a bitch?

Well, I mean, there's a lot that could land him on there...I mean there's

Mind Controlling Terra
Killing a majority of Espers, Terra's mom, and kidnapping Baby Terra before the fucking game started
Attacking and burning Castle Figaro (admittedly, the Gesthal Kingdom is already at war with Figaro, so this is like the weakest of his crimes)
Poisoning Castle Doma
Killing General Leo, the coolest motherfucker ever in an FF game
Killing the rest of the Espers
Betraying and murdering the fuck out of Emperor Gesthal
Blowing up the goddamn world
Several repeated biblical metaphors in his final boss fight

But you know what, knowing TvTropes, you're probably right, and it's because he called Celes a bitch that he's "politically incorrect". Nevermind in the original Japanese he also calls Prince Edgar a "son of a bitch" (which was translated to "son of a submariner!" in the English sub). I mean, Kefka just has a filthy mouth.

TvTropes: We will protect the women with our Autism.
 
Well, I mean, there's a lot that could land him on there...I mean there's

Mind Controlling Terra
Killing a majority of Espers, Terra's mom, and kidnapping Baby Terra before the fucking game started
Attacking and burning Castle Figaro (admittedly, the Gesthal Kingdom is already at war with Figaro, so this is like the weakest of his crimes)
Poisoning Castle Doma
Killing General Leo, the coolest motherfucker ever in an FF game
Killing the rest of the Espers
Betraying and murdering the fuck out of Emperor Gesthal
Blowing up the goddamn world
Several repeated biblical metaphors in his final boss fight

But you know what, knowing TvTropes, you're probably right, and it's because he called Celes a bitch that he's "politically incorrect". Nevermind in the original Japanese he also calls Prince Edgar a "son of a bitch" (which was translated to "son of a submariner!" in the English sub). I mean, Kefka just has a filthy mouth.

TvTropes: We will protect the women with our Autism.

Actually, it's worse than that.

Instead of being just unable to see the forest for the trees, they can't see the forest because they fixate on irrelevant leaves instead.

He was shanked in the gut and called the woman who shanked him a bitch, which, considering he got a knife to the gut, is a pretty understandable reaction. I'd be disturbed if he took getting shanked in the gut without showing some form of outrage, but instead acted like anyone would when someone they didn't expect inflicted a possibly mortal wound, especially if that person was a woman.

The idiots who got triggered over him calling a woman a bitch ignore the context because they don't care. As soon as they see a man called a woman a gendered insult, nuance is ignored and they decided to flip out over something that perfect sense in context, just because it triggered their white knight reflex.

And their fixating on him using a gendered slur is rather sad when we are talking about a mass murderer on a scale that would horrify every 20th century dictator due to his sheer cruelty and brutality, and the fact he has a body count that could damn the souls of countless people is what should really make a guy out to be a villain, not the fact he said something mean about a woman who had every reason to shank his entrails out of his gut and he had every reason to be more than a little pissed at her over getting a knife lodged in his abdomen.
 
We've finally found a Japanese-English translator worse than Michael Cohen.
No, that's what happens when you localize a game but have to keep things kid-friendly.

It's actually funny because Kefka in the original version wasn't liked very much by Japanese fans, but is a very popular character overseas.
 
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No, that's what happens when you localize a game but have to keep things kid-friendly.

It's actually funny because Kafka in the original version wasn't liked very much by Japanese fans, but is a very popular character overseas.

Kafka is a venerated author in most parts of the world.
 
Ted Woolsey was somewhat unfortunate in having to throw away so much plot because there was no space left for extra text boxes. So we had to get a hilarious Kefka going "I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate HATE YOU!".
 
We've finally found a Japanese-English translator worse than Michael Cohen.

I'm gonna go to bat to Ted Woolsey here, guy was screwed because of Nintendo's utter insistence on keeping stuff family friendly, which meant any religious references had to go, and references to death had to be cut out, and lots of other things that should have butchered the story of the game.

Regardless, he managed to get most of all that across anyway despite the limitations, and given the restrictions he was under, it was a good effort. Also, the original Kefka wasn't half as entertaining as the one we Americans originally got, which turned out to be good, because he better conveyed just how The Joker-esque insane Kefka was implied to be in the backstory even better, to the point later re-translations actually kept most of the better stuff from the Woolsey version, and even Dissidia went with The Joker-style Kefka.

Ted Woolsey was somewhat unfortunate in having to throw away so much plot because there was no space left for extra text boxes. So we had to get a hilarious Kefka going "I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate HATE YOU!".

Japanese is a much more compact language than English that can convey more complex thoughts using less characters, so Woolsey often had to make do with equivalents that nailed the high points of the original context like this.

Again, Nintendo had the guy under a ridiculous amount of both censorship related and technical limits on what he could translate, so given what he could do and what he had to work with, I'm not going to slag off on him too hard.
 
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