💬 Off-Topic Tranny Biology - HRT Is Magic

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If I recall correctly, only one brother was forced to transition after a bad circumcision mistake. But Money made them do sexual shit with each other. The one intact brother went on to live a pretty normal life, but the mutilated brother killed himself after a divorce I believe, crushed under the weight of being a man but forced to live as a girl until he was about 14 and put his foot down.
The brother (Brian) developed schizophrenia and died in 2002 at age 36 or 37.

ETA: The immediate cause was an antidepressant overdose and the coroner/police concluded it was a suicide.

Can we blame Money for Brian having schizophrenia? No. Can we blame years of parents lying about his "sister" and sexual abuse from that pervert therapist for making an already serious mental condition worse? Hell yeah.
 
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The brother (Brian) developed schizophrenia and died in 2002 at age 36 or 37.

ETA: The immediate cause was an antidepressant overdose and the coroner/police concluded it was a suicide.

Can we blame Money for Brian having schizophrenia? No. Can we blame years of parents lying about his "sister" and sexual abuse from that pervert therapist for making an already serious mental condition worse? Hell yeah.
He could have been at risk of schizophrenia to begin with (a lot of Jewish people are), but as you said, growing up with dangerous levels of trauma, especially from his caregivers, would put his mind and body in emergency-mode. Of course this isn't always the case, but statistically children who even have the minor trauma of not having a male parent around when they are 0-12 years old have higher rates of all kinds of adolescent issues (including early and strong SD).

I don't have anything to back this up but a suspicion; I suspect John Money was a sexual predator and he sensed weakness from the Reimer family and like a predator he gas-lit and messed with everyone's heads.
There are ethical ways to examine issues of a sexual nature in minors which won't harm the minor and will protect their civil rights (Judges asking children where on the doll they were touched being the classic or a child psychologist asking children to map out every 15 minutes of their day in an attempt to find missing time), Money used his minor patients like playthings, with no regard for their dignity or lasting harm. Reading his lists of documented ethical violations is chilling, since it reads like the charges of a sex predator.

TL;DR: these boys were abused, be it by the failure of Medical ethics of the time or by John Money. . .or both. But I won't accept anything other than Abuse.
 
I haaaaaaate the tranny take on John Money. Because I completely understand their stupid interpretation: The mutilated, abused, groomed boy knew he was a boy despite all the lying and sexual abuse. This means "brain gender" exists. He knew he was a boy on the inside despite being a girl on the outside!
It's also really easy to show how utterly insane this logic is. Is a person that has been starved to death and depressed about it a sign that we are naturally unhappy at our ''wrong'' weight and anorexics should get free liposuction to relieve their pain? Is a person that lost their legs in a freak accident and is now suicidal due to the drastic decline in quality of life a sign that we should amputate mentally ill yet physically healthy peoples' limbs because it proves every persons soul has a determined amount of limbs and they get distressed when their body doesn't match?

Everyone sees that these conclusions are crazy yet when it involves sex the mutilating is suddenly ok and the obvious fact that a healthy body shouldn't be touched doesn't apply. Because lets be real, it's not about gender for them. If it was about gender and gender expression they wouldn't invade women's sports, since sports are sex segregated, not gender segregated. They wouldn't be outraged over being treated according to their sex at the doctor. They wouldn't poison studies on women's health. They wouldn't claim that everyone's sexuality was about gender all along and they wouldn't demand tax payed body mutilation and vanity plastic surgeries to poorly imitate the other sex.
 
It's also really easy to show how utterly insane this logic is. Is a person that has been starved to death and depressed about it a sign that we are naturally unhappy at our ''wrong'' weight and anorexics should get free liposuction to relieve their pain? Is a person that lost their legs in a freak accident and is now suicidal due to the drastic decline in quality of life a sign that we should amputate mentally ill yet physically healthy peoples' limbs because it proves every persons soul has a determined amount of limbs and they get distressed when their body doesn't match?

Everyone sees that these conclusions are crazy yet when it involves sex the mutilating is suddenly ok and the obvious fact that a healthy body shouldn't be touched doesn't apply. Because lets be real, it's not about gender for them. If it was about gender and gender expression they wouldn't invade women's sports, since sports are sex segregated, not gender segregated. They wouldn't be outraged over being treated according to their sex at the doctor. They wouldn't poison studies on women's health. They wouldn't claim that everyone's sexuality was about gender all along and they wouldn't demand tax payed body mutilation and vanity plastic surgeries to poorly imitate the other sex.
What about people who think they turn into wolves?
 
I haaaaaaate the tranny take on John Money. Because I completely understand their stupid interpretation: The mutilated, abused, groomed boy knew he was a boy despite all the lying and sexual abuse. This means "brain gender" exists. He knew he was a boy on the inside despite being a girl on the outside!

It's dumb because it ignores the obvious explanation. He was a boy the entire time. Putting a penis in a blender and wearing a dress doesn't make you a girl. He was never a girl. The John Money mad science experiment rests its "validity" entirely on the idea that trooning out works, that it truly transforms your outsides into the opposite sex. David never had a "brain that didn't match his body". He was a mutilated boy no matter what the AGP pervert did to him.
I never liked the explanation that "he just knew" for any reason, because I do think early societal conditioning can be incredibly powerful, especially if not challenged. If Reimer had grown up in a situation where he never had reason to doubt he was a girl, or never had the want to not be a girl, then I think he likely would have remained as a "girl". But if you look at it from another standpoint, there's a few other hugely terfy obstacles in the way: David Reimer, as a "girl", was a sexually abused "lesbian" tomboy, and his insistence on being a boy started during early puberty. It's literally the most stereotypical pooner story.
 
I don't have anything to back this up but a suspicion; I suspect John Money was a sexual predator
Look into John Money's background. He was a piece of work. I find it disturbing he was licensed, let alone respected.

From what I recall, he had an abusive father. Gained a misandristic streak from it. He had freakish theories about gelding young boys so they don't get violent. Not like a drastic sex offender chemical castration thing either; he thought society would be better off if we cut most boys' nuts off. He felt called to perform this experiment because he wanted to validate his feelings that maybe he should have been born a girl.

With the jaded eyes of 2025 and decades of tranny nonsense in your back pocket, doesn't that sound like a Buffalo Bill AGP nightmare in waiting?
 
I never liked the explanation that "he just knew" for any reason, because I do think early societal conditioning can be incredibly powerful, especially if not challenged. If Reimer had grown up in a situation where he never had reason to doubt he was a girl, or never had the want to not be a girl, then I think he likely would have remained as a "girl". But if you look at it from another standpoint, there's a few other hugely terfy obstacles in the way: David Reimer, as a "girl", was a sexually abused "lesbian" tomboy, and his insistence on being a boy started during early puberty. It's literally the most stereotypical pooner story.
Yeah, I think this is a case that really shouldn't as solid proof of being born in the wrong body. Tranny's going "I just knew when I was a kid" often comes off as them retconing their childhood.
 
This is not how mental illness or mental health treatment actually work.

Screenshot 2025-09-02 213315.webp
 
This is not how mental illness or mental health treatment actually work.

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lol "someone depressed but on SSRIs doesn't have active mental illness" is incredible cope. Turning yourself into a zombified form that doesn't feel your emotions is a different kind of mental illness, still active.

Who I am doesn't change if I take a substance, but how I "feel" about who I am can change. Still incredibly addict-coded saying HRT makes you feel better, feel right. Just like heroin.
 
lol "someone depressed but on SSRIs doesn't have active mental illness" is incredible cope. Turning yourself into a zombified form that doesn't feel your emotions is a different kind of mental illness, still active.

Who I am doesn't change if I take a substance, but how I "feel" about who I am can change. Still incredibly addict-coded saying HRT makes you feel better, feel right. Just like heroin.
This is like people with high blood pressure on medication for it who think it's cured and they don't have high blood pressure anymore, when in reality, it's just managed. If they go off their meds, then the high blood pressure will probably come back, unless there's some sort of lifestyle change.

The second Wu stops getting attention (the medication he so desperately wants), he's going to feel bad again. The only 'cure' is to realize that being 'trans' isn't real and that he's just a man with a fetish.

Or to 41%
 
lol "someone depressed but on SSRIs doesn't have active mental illness" is incredible cope. Turning yourself into a zombified form that doesn't feel your emotions is a different kind of mental illness, still active.

Who I am doesn't change if I take a substance, but how I "feel" about who I am can change. Still incredibly addict-coded saying HRT makes you feel better, feel right. Just like heroin.
There's a point to be made that in at least some patients, psych meds work not by correcting a brain-wide chemical imbalance, but by simply changing the behavior of local chemical processes (or electrochemical in the case of topiramate) in a way that might provide some sort of actual or perceived benefit to the patient and/or the patient's environment. A medication that makes crying metabolically more "expensive" will make it harder to cry. This doesn't correct for an imbalance as much as it, broadly, changes the way your brain processes thoughts and experiences emotions. And in my honest opinion, the use of antipsychotics is often a form of control, one that suppresses the motivation behind rewards and avoidance while also leaving basic reflexes and other abilities (like language and maybe pleasure, distinct from motivation or satisfaction) intact. It's a great way to demotivate people from "bad behavior," or effectively slow the dopaminergic pathways to the point where maybe, someone might have to take a little longer and think more about their actions, or might not even feel much reward from them.

They can make music less enjoyable. Even if someone still listens to it, and says they like it, they're less likely to get chills from it or even seek it out in some studies. I remember reading an anecdotal report of an ex-metalhead who suddenly started mixing up multiple songs they knew by heart and had no enjoyment of a concert they looked forward to.

They can also cause the negative symptoms of some of the conditions they treat, make certain conditions (such as adhd) worse, etc.

An antipsychotic can make it less motivating to ruminate on autotheism. It can also make it less motivating to code or make art, and a lot of bipolar people say they can only be creative if they plan things out. Also, they develop pickier tastes.

An antipsychotic can suppress the conditioned avoidance response that allows you to intuitively associate antecedents (such as a car horn) with consequences (such as a potential crash if you don't get out of the way). This can perhaps be useful to break up certain patterns built up by trauma or to make someone lose certain associations. But it can also force someone to rely more on both immediate reflexes (only reacting when the car is about to hit you) and intellectual learning (taking time to process the car horn) when doing stuff like driving, and potentially impairing your reaction time. But this might be useful if you really want your autistic kid to find it harder to escape family dinners over the smell.

An antipsychotic can also blunt hallucinations by blunting imagination and abstract thought in general.

Really, it's like the use of the even stronger Benperidol to treat fetishes, not by specifically turning a vore freak into a model vanilla citizen, but by suppressing a healthy sex drive altogether to mute the reward of the attraction that triggers it. Similar techniques have been tried on gay men.

And like SSRIs, HRT and even castration does not necessarily rob someone of their sex drive.

But it can.

And HRT can act on the brain in many ways... but many are placebo, circumstantial, or if real, not universal.

If HRT really changed a person's interests (hobby-wise, sexual, aesthetic, or otherwise), you'd expect any woman who likes to wear T-shirts in public past 30 and solder electronics alone to have some kind of hormonal abnormality, and also expect her behavior to "feminize" if said imbalance is "corrected."

I think pop psych is just a more advanced version of humorism, just like Myers-Briggs is horoscopes, but with a personality test instead of sun signs.
 
There's a point to be made that in at least some patients, psych meds work not by correcting a brain-wide chemical imbalance, but by simply changing the behavior of local chemical processes (or electrochemical in the case of topiramate) in a way that might provide some sort of actual or perceived benefit to the patient and/or the patient's environment. A medication that makes crying metabolically more "expensive" will make it harder to cry. This doesn't correct for an imbalance as much as it, broadly, changes the way your brain processes thoughts and experiences emotions. And in my honest opinion, the use of antipsychotics is often a form of control, one that suppresses the motivation behind rewards and avoidance while also leaving basic reflexes and other abilities (like language and maybe pleasure, distinct from motivation or satisfaction) intact. It's a great way to demotivate people from "bad behavior," or effectively slow the dopaminergic pathways to the point where maybe, someone might have to take a little longer and think more about their actions, or might not even feel much reward from them.
I agree with you, and I think this is one of the failings of modern medicine. There's always a "miracle cure" for whatever ails you, don't mind the side effects, but it WILL cure you. Unless we need to try another med. Or maybe two meds together? What about three meds with side effects that cancel each other's side effects out?

There are definite good uses for medicines, as you said a medication that helps your autistic child eat without throwing up over "normal, but powerful" smells. I personally have been on SSRIs because at the time, I didn't HAVE time to process my emotions and had to get over a hump (slump?) of depression. While I was on it, I could feel the disconnect between my body signaling and my mood. My body was flooded with serotonin and sent a constant "YOU ARE CONTENT" signal so my carcass could get out of bed and go to work, even when I felt and knew that I was anything but content.

Medication should always be viewed as a tool, something to help a specific issue with potential overlap on other issues - someone shitting their brains out every 2 hours because of Crohns disease would be happier in general because not only are they not shitting constantly, they can stop planning around their disease and have a more normal life. But it's not a miracle cure, and too many people view medicine as a miracle cure in general.
 
Pooner Vanessa denies that AGP is a real thing.

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I know their logic rarely (never?) makes sense, but how is a male to female troon who we posit is attracted to the "woman they could be" in any way comparable to cis lesbians? How do cis lesbians disprove the AGP hypothesis? Is the pooner trying to say that cis lesbians are not attracted to themselves so nobody else can be either? Or is the AGP research "so offensive" they refuse to engage with it?

This one is really confusing lol
 
I know their logic rarely (never?) makes sense, but how is a male to female troon who we posit is attracted to the "woman they could be" in any way comparable to cis lesbians? How do cis lesbians disprove the AGP hypothesis? Is the pooner trying to say that cis lesbians are not attracted to themselves so nobody else can be either? Or is the AGP research "so offensive" they refuse to engage with it?

This one is really confusing lol
The mentioning lesbians is what really confuses me, are they trying to imply gay people are attracted to themselves? Troons always bring out the classic homophobic talking points.

A lot of troons try to imply that if you applied the same standard of what constitutes AGP to women, most women would be considered autogynephilic. This kinda gets into "if my grandma had wheels, she'd be a bike" territory. Picturing yourself as feminine and a woman during sexual encounters makes sense if you're a woman, it doesn't if you're a man. And it being such an intense fetish that you go through years of transitioning is different than casual thoughts.
 
The mentioning lesbians is what really confuses me, are they trying to imply gay people are attracted to themselves? Troons always bring out the classic homophobic talking points.

A lot of troons try to imply that if you applied the same standard of what constitutes AGP to women, most women would be considered autogynephilic. This kinda gets into "if my grandma had wheels, she'd be a bike" territory. Picturing yourself as feminine and a woman during sexual encounters makes sense if you're a woman, it doesn't if you're a man. And it being such an intense fetish that you go through years of transitioning is different than casual thoughts.
Maybe it's as retarded and simple as "Cis lesbians are attracted to women so THEREFORE they MUST be attracted to themselves since they are women. However since they are NOT attracted to themselves AGP isn't real."

Probably an issue with arguing a poisoned well, if the pooner thinks troons are actually women, well lesbians are women so why don't they have this issue if it's an issue that affects women? Except troons aren't women so we can't break through their looping logic to even understand how they can argue this.
 
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