The Social Science Monoculture Doubles Down - "Trusting the test makers is part of the test."

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Over the past 18 months, a number of significant events have occurred that were interpreted through two entirely different worldviews: COVID–19 lockdowns; rise of the BLM movement; the riots and violence in major cities; the US election process and its aftermath; and vaccine safety. Many influential commentators believe that these divergent perspectives arise from an epistemic collapse: that we have ceased to value facts, science, and truth, partly because trust in the institutions that adjudicate knowledge claims (universities, media, science, government) has eroded.

Many researchers in my own discipline, psychology, have rushed to the front lines, hoping to provide a remedy. But is it even plausible that we could help? Psychology, and most social science disciplines, are currently contributing more to the problem than to the solution. While psychology has studied phenomena such as myside bias that drive these worrisome epistemic trends, when it attempts to tackle social issues itself, psychology is fraught with bias.

It is doubtful that social scientists can help adjudicate polarized social disagreements while their own disciplines and institutions are ideological monocultures. Liberals outnumber conservatives in universities by a factor of almost 10-to-one in liberal arts departments and education schools and by almost five-to-one margins even in STEM disciplines.1

Tests are harder when your enemies construct them

Cognitive elites like to insist that only they can be trusted to define good thinking. For instance, on questionnaires sometimes referred to as science trust or “faith in science” scales, respondents are asked whether they trust universities, or the media, or the results of scientific research on pressing social issues (I’m guilty of authoring one of these scales myself!). But if they answer that they do not trust university research, they are marked down on the assessment of their epistemic abilities and are categorized as science deniers.

Imagine that you are forced to take a series of tests on your values, morals, and beliefs. Imagine then that you are deemed to have failed the tests. When you protest that people like you had no role in constructing the tests, you are told that there will be another test in which you are asked to indicate whether or not you trust the test makers. When you answer that of course you don’t trust them, you are told you have failed again because trusting the test makers is part of the test. That’s how about half the population feels right now.

In short, cognitive elites load the tests with things they know and that privilege their own views. Then when people just like themselves do well on the tests, they think it validates their own opinions and attitudes (interestingly, the problem I am describing here is not applicable to intelligence tests which, contrary to popular belief, are among the most unbiased of psychological tests).2

The overwhelmingly left/liberal professoriate has been looking for psychological defects in their political opponents for some time, but the intensity of these efforts has increased markedly in the last two decades. The literature is now replete with correlations linking conservatism with intolerance, prejudice, low intelligence, close-minded thinking styles, and just about any other undesirable cognitive and personality characteristic. But most of these relationships were attenuated or disappeared entirely when the ideological assumptions behind the research were examined more closely.

The misleading conclusions drawn from those studies result from various flawed research methods. One of these is the “high/low fallacy”—researchers split a sample in half and describe one group as “high” in a trait like prejudice, even though their scores on the scale indicate very little antipathy. When the group labelled “high” also scores significantly higher on an index of ideological conservatism, the investigators then announce a conclusion primed for media consumption: “racism is associated with conservativism.”

Three types of scales (variously called racial resentment, symbolic racism, and modern racism scales) have been particularly prominent in attempts to link racism with conservative opinions. Many of these racism questionnaires simply build in correlations between prejudice and conservative views. Early versions of these scales included items on policy issues such as affirmative action, crime prevention, busing to achieve school integration, or attitudes toward welfare reform, and then scored any deviation from liberal orthodoxy as a racist response. Even endorsing the belief that hard work leads to success will result in a higher score on a “racial resentment” scale.

The social science monoculture yields this sequence repeatedly. We set out to study a trait such as prejudice, dogmatism, authoritarianism, intolerance, close-mindedness—one end of the trait continuum is good and the other end is bad. The scale items are constructed so that conservative social policy preferences are defined as negative. Many scientific papers are published establishing the “link” between conservatism and negative psychological traits. Articles then appear in liberal publications like the New York Times informing their readerships that research psychologists (yes, scientists!) have confirmed that liberals are indeed psychologically superior people. After all, they do better on all of the tests that psychologists have constructed to measure whether people are open-minded, tolerant, and fair.

The flaws in these scales were pointed out as long ago as the 1980s. Our failure to correct them undermines public confidence in our conclusions—as it should. After a decade or two, a few researchers finally asked if there may have been theoretical confusion in the concept. Subsequent research showed that the proposed trait was misunderstood, or that its negative aspects can be found on either side of the ideological spectrum.

For example, Conway and colleagues created an authoritarianism scale on which liberals score higher than conservatives. They simply took old items that had disadvantaged conservatives and substituted content that disadvantaged liberals. So:

Our country will be great if we honor the ways of our forefathers, do what the authorities tell us to do, and get rid of the “rotten apples” who are ruining everything.
…was changed to:

Our country will be great if we honor the ways of progressive thinking, do what the best liberal authorities tell us to do, and get rid of the religious and conservative “rotten apples” who are ruining everything.
After the change, liberals scored higher on “authoritarianism” for the same reason that made the old scales correlate with conservatism—the content of the questionnaire targeted their views specifically.

Biased item selection that favors our “tribe”

Although errors are an inevitable part of scientific inquiry, and it is better that they are corrected late than never, the larger problem is that psychology’s errors are always made in the same direction (just like at your local grocery, where things “ring up wrong” in the overcharge direction much more often than the reverse). I’ve done it myself—in the 1990s, when my colleagues and I constructed a questionnaire measuring actively open-minded thinking (AOT). One of the key processing styles examined by the AOT concept is the subject’s willingness to revise beliefs based on evidence. Our early scales included several items designed to tap this processing style. But my colleague Maggie Toplak and I discovered in 2018 that there is no generic belief revision tendency. Belief revision is determined by the specific belief that people are revising. As originally written, our items were biased against religious (and conservative) subjects.

Likewise, Evan Charney has argued that some items measuring openness to experience on the much-used Revised NEO Personality Inventory require the subject to have specific liberal political affinities in order to score highly. For instance, the subject is scored as close-minded if they respond affirmatively to the item “I believe that we should look to our religious authorities for decisions on moral issues.” But there is no corresponding item asking if the subject is equally reliant on secular authorities. Is it more close-minded to rely on a theologian for moral guidance than it is to rely on a bio-ethicist? To a university-educated liberal cosmopolitan the answer is clearly yes, but the answer is less obvious to those who didn’t benefit from having their own tribe construct the test.

Cherry-picking scale items to embarrass our enemies seems to be an irresistible tendency in psychology. Studies of conspiracy beliefs have been plagued by item selection bias for some years now. Some conspiracy theories are prevalent on the Left; others are prevalent on the Right; many have no association with ideology at all (the conspiracy belief subtest of our Comprehensive Assessment of Rational Thinking (CART) sampled 24 different conspiracy theories). It is therefore trivially easy to select conspiracy theories to produce ideological correlations in one direction or the other, but those correlations will not reveal anything about a subject’s underlying psychological structure. They would merely be sampling artifacts.

Researcher Dan Kahan has shown that the heavy reliance of science knowledge tests on items involving belief in climate change and evolutionary origins has built correlations between liberalism and science knowledge into such measures. Importantly, his research has demonstrated that removing human-caused climate change and evolutionary origins items from science knowledge scales not only reduces the correlation between science knowledge and liberalism, but it also makes the remaining test more valid. This is because responses on climate and evolution items are expressive responses signaling group allegiance rather than informed scientific knowledge.

All studies of the “who is more knowledgeable” variety in the political domain are at risk of being compromised by such item selection effects. Over the years it has been common for Democrats to call themselves the “party of science”—and they are when it comes to climate science and belief in the evolutionary origins of humans. But when it comes to topics like the heritability of intelligence and sex differences, the Democrats suddenly become the “party of science denial.” Whoever controls the selection of items will find it difficult not to bias the selection according to their own notion of what knowledge is important.

Which misinformation is it important to combat and who decides?

The presidential election of 2016 and the COVID-19 pandemic focused societal and research attention on the topic of misinformation. Psychological studies of the correlates of the spread of misinformation and conspiracy beliefs have poured out, but many of them have failed to take seriously the selection effects I have discussed here. Clearly, psychologists should focus on salient current events at critical times, so belief in QAnon and election-changing voting fraud were legitimate foci of psychological attention, as was their correlation with ideology. But other historic events in 2020–2021 went unexamined in research on misinformation. Significant nationwide demonstrations occurred. Distorted beliefs about crime and race relations in the United States are relevant to how one understands the demonstrations and the participants in them—and this misinformation is also correlated with ideology.

For example, a study conducted by the Skeptic Research Center found that over 50 percent of subjects who labelled themselves as “very liberal” thought that 1,000 or more unarmed African-American men were killed by the police each year. The actual number is less than 100 (over 21 percent of the very liberal subjects thought that the number was 10,000 or more). The subjects identifying as very liberal also thought that over 60 percent of the people killed by the police in the United States are African-American. The actual percentage is approximately 25 percent. In a different study, 81 percent of Biden voters thought young black men were more likely to be killed by the police than to die in a car accident (when the probability is strongly in the other direction), whereas less than 20 percent of Trump voters believed this misinformation.

Zach Goldberg has reported a reanalysis of a Cato/YouGov poll showing that over 60 percent of self-labelled “very liberal” respondents thought that “the United States is more racist than other countries.” Such a proposition is not strictly factual, but it does suggest a lack of context if one responds “strongly agree.” In fact, many propositions in so-called “misinformation” scales are less than factual. Both the media and pollsters throughout 2020 often labeled respondents misinformed if they indicated in questionnaires that the BLM demonstrations of 2020 involved “widespread” violence or that they were not “mostly peaceful.” There is enough interpretive latitude in terms such as “widespread” or “mostly peaceful” (as there is in “more racist than other countries”) that such phrasing should be avoided in questionnaires intended to label part of the populace as misinformed.

Selection bias also plagues the recently popular “trust in experts” measures that many behavioral scientists are using. The scales ask whether the subject would be willing to accept the recommendations within their area of expertise of several groups, including scientists, government officials, journalists, lawyers, etc. The researchers clearly view low-trust subjects as epistemically defective in their failure to rely on expert opinion when forming their beliefs. The respondent, of course, cannot verify the specific expertise of an expert in these domains. Absent that, it is impossible to judge the optimal willingness to accept expert opinion. Yet the investigators clearly view more acceptance of information from experts as better—indeed maximum acceptance (answering “complete acceptance” on the scale) is implicitly deemed optimal in the statistical analysis of such measures.

How times have changed. In the 1960s and ’70s it was viewed as progressive to display skepticism toward these groups of experts. Encouraging people to be more skeptical toward government officials and journalists and universities was considered progressive because it was thought that the truth was being obscured by the self-serving interests of the supposed authorities listed on current “expert acceptance” questionnaires! Yet when conservatives now evince skepticism on these scales, it is viewed as an epistemological defect.

Related to these “trust in experts” scales are the “trust in science” scales in the psychological literature (or their complement, “anti-scientific attitude” scales). I have constructed such a scale, but now consider it to be a conceptual error and prone to misuse. Asking a subject if they believe “science is the best method of acquiring knowledge” is like asking them if they have been to college. At university one learns to endorse items like this. Every person with a BA knows that it is a good thing to “follow the science.” That same BA equips us to critique our fellow citizens who don’t know that “trust the science” is a codeword used by university-educated elites.

So I have removed the anti-science attitudes subtest from my lab’s omnibus measure of rational thinking (the Comprehensive Assessment of Rational Thinking). I don’t think it provides a clean and unbiased measure of that construct. If we want to understand people’s attitudes toward scientific evidence, we have to take a domain-specific belief that a person holds on a scientific matter, present them with contrary evidence, and see how they assimilate it (as some studies have done). You can’t just ask people if they “follow the science” on a questionnaire. It would be like constructing a test and giving half the respondents the answer sheet.

The authors of these questionnaires can often be quite aggressive in demanding extreme allegiance to a particular worldview if the respondent is to avoid the label “anti-science.” For example, one scale requires the subjects to affirm propositions such as “We can only rationally believe in what is scientifically provable,” “Science tells us everything there is to know about what reality consists of,” “All the tasks human beings face are soluble by science,” “Science is the most valuable part of human culture.” This is a quite strict and uncompromising set of beliefs to have to endorse to avoid ending up in the “low faith in science” group in an experiment!

Let the other half of the population in

We lament the skepticism directed at university research by about half of the US public, yet we conduct our research as if the audience were only a small coterie sharing our assumptions. Consider a study that attempted to link the conservative worldview with “the denial of environmental realities.” Subjects were presented with the following item: “If things continue on their present course, we will soon experience a major environmental catastrophe.” If the subject did not agree with this statement, they were scored as denying environmental realities. The term denial implies that what is being denied is a descriptive fact. However, without a clear description of what “soon” or “major” or “catastrophe” mean, the statement itself is not a fact—and so labeling one set of respondents as science deniers based on an item like this reflects little more than the tendency of academics to attach pejorative labels to their political enemies.

This tendency to assume that a liberal response is the correct response (or ethical response, or fair response, or scientific response, or open-minded response) is particularly prevalent in the subareas of social psychology and personality psychology. It often takes the form of labeling any legitimate policy difference with liberalism as some kind of intellectual or personality defect (dogmatism or authoritarianism or racism or prejudice or science denial). In a typical study, the term “social dominance orientation” is used to describe anyone who doesn’t endorse both identity politics (emphasizing groups when thinking about justice) and the new meaning of equity (equality of group outcomes). A subject who doesn’t endorse the item “group equality should be our ideal” is scored in the direction of having a social dominance orientation (wanting to maintain the dominant group in a hierarchy). A conservative individual or an old-style liberal who values equality of opportunity and focuses on the individual will naturally score higher in social dominance orientation than a left-wing advocate of group-based identity politics. A conservative subject is scored as having a social dominance orientation even though group outcomes are not salient in their own worldview. In such scales, the subject’s own fairness concepts are ignored and the experimenter’s framework is instead imposed upon them.

The study goes on to define “skepticism about science” with just two items. The first, “We believe too often in science, and not enough in faith and feelings,” builds into the scale a direct conflict between religious faith and science that many subjects might not actually experience, thus inflating correlations with religiosity. The second is “When it comes to really important questions, scientific facts don’t help very much.” If a subject happens to believe that the most important things in life are marriage, family, raising children with good values, and being a good neighbor—and thus answers that they agree on this item, they will get a higher score on this science skepticism scale than a person who believes that the most important things in life are climate change and green technology. Neither of these items shows that conservative subjects are anti-science in any way, but they ensure that conservatism/religiosity will be correlated with the misleading construct that names the scale, “science skepticism.” It is no wonder that only Democrats strongly trust university research anymore.

Doubling down: The heart of our epistemic crisis

As academia’s ideological bias has become more obvious and public skepticism about research has increased, academia has become more insistent that relying on university-based conclusions is the sine qua non of proper epistemic behavior. The second-order skepticism toward this demand is in turn treated as new evidence that the opponents of left-wing university conclusions are indeed anti-intellectual know-nothings. Institutions, administrators, and faculty do not seem to be concerned about the public’s plummeting trust in universities. Many people though, see the monoculture as a problem. If academics really wanted to address it, they would be turning to mechanisms such as those recommended by the Adversarial Collaboration Project at the University of Pennsylvania (see Clark & Tetlock).

Adversarial collaboration seeks to broaden the frameworks within research groups by encouraging disagreeing scholars to work together. Researchers from opposing perspectives design methods that both sides agree constitute a fair test and jointly publish the results. Both sides participate in the interpretation of the findings and conclusions based upon pre-agreed criteria. Adversarial collaborations prevent researchers from designing studies likely to support their own hypotheses and from dismissing unexpected results. Most importantly, conclusions based on adversarial collaborations can be fairly presented to consumers of scientific information as true consensus conclusions and not outcomes determined by one side’s success in shutting the other out.

There is a major obstacle, however. It is not certain that, in the future, universities will have enough conservative scholars to participate in the needed adversarial collaborations. The diversity statements that candidates for faculty positions must now write are a significant impediment to increasing intellectual diversity in academia. A candidate will not help their chances of securing a faculty position if they refuse to affirm the tenets of the woke successor ideology, and also pledge allegiance to its many terms and concepts without getting too picky about their lack of operational definition (diversity, systemic racism, white privilege, inclusion, equity). Such statements function like ideological loyalty oaths. If you don’t intone the required shibboleths, you won’t be hired.

Other institutions for adjudicating knowledge claims in our society have been too cavalier in their dismissal of the need for adversarial collaboration. When fact checking fails in the political domain, the slip-ups often seem to favor the ideological proclivities of the liberal media outlets that sponsor them. Fact-checking websites were quick to refute the Trump administration’s claims that a vaccine would be available in 2020. NBC News told us that “experts say he needs a miracle to be right.” Of course, we now know the vaccine rollout began in December 2020.

As the COVID-19 pandemic was unfolding, news organizations had no business treating ongoing scientific disputes about, say, the origins of the virus or the efficacy of lockdowns, as if they were matters of established “fact” that journalists could reliably check. They were, as Zeynep Tufekci phrased it in an essay, “checking facts even if you can’t.” Unfortunately, this was characteristic of fact-checking organizations and many social science researchers studying the spread of misinformation throughout the pandemic.

Fact-checking organizations seem to be oblivious to a bias that is more problematic than inaccuracies in the fact-checks themselves: that myside bias will drive the choice of which statements to fact-check amongst a population of thousands. Fact-checkers have become just another player in the unhinged partisan cacophony of our politics. Many of the leading organizations are populated by progressive academics in universities, others are run by liberal newspapers, and some are connected with Democratic donors. It is unrealistic to expect organizations like these to win bipartisan trust and respect among the general population unless they commit themselves to adversarial collaboration.

The closed loop of media and academia

I won’t chronicle all of the institutional failures we have witnessed in the last 10 years, because the examples are well-known.3 It is worth noting, though, that increased interactions between epistemologically failing institutions has helped to create a closed loop. At the Heterodox Academy blog, Joseph Latham and Gilly Koritzky discuss an academic paper purporting to uncover medical bias in the testing and treatment of African-Americans with COVID-19. In support of their conclusion, the paper’s authors cite a study by a biotech company called Rubix Life Sciences. However, Latham and Koritzky show that the relevant comparisons between Caucasian and African-American patients were not even examined in the Rubix paper. Latham and Koritzky found that other scientific papers alleging racial bias in medical treatment also cited the Rubix study. Not one of the scholars citing the Rubix study could have actually read it, or they would have discovered it is irrelevant. So where did they find it?

Latham and Koritzky found that the study was first mentioned as evidence for racial bias in medical treatments during an NPR story in April 2020. In other words, academic researchers cited a paper they’d heard about on public radio without actually reading it—a stunning example of the negative synergy between the myside bias of the media and of academia.

Restoring epistemic legitimacy to the social sciences

Our society-wide epistemic crisis demands institutional reform. Academics continue to pile up studies of the psychological “deficiencies” of voters who don’t pull the Democratic lever or who voted for Brexit. They amass conclusions on all the pressing issues of the day (immigration, crime, inequality, race relations) using research teams without any representation outside of the left/liberal progressive consensus. We—universities, social science departments, my tribe—have sorted by temperament, values, and culture into a monolithic intellectual edifice. We create tests to reward and celebrate the intellectual characteristics with which we define ourselves, and to skewer those that we deplore. We have been cleansing disciplines of ideologically dissident voices for 30 years now with relentless efficiency. The population with a broader range of psychological characteristics no longer trusts us.

The transparency reforms in the open science movement are effective mechanisms for addressing the replication crisis in social science, but they will not fix the crisis of trust discussed here. It’s not just transparency that our field needs, it’s tolerance of other viewpoints. We need to let the other half of the population in.

In a small paperback book for psychology undergraduates that I first published in 1986, I told the students that they could trust the scientific process in psychology, not because individual investigators were invariably objective, but because any biases a particular investigator might have would be checked by many other psychologists who held different viewpoints. When I was writing the first edition in 1984–1985, psychology had not yet become the handmaiden of a partisan media in a closed monocultural loop. That book has gone through 11 editions now, and I no longer can offer my students that assurance. On most socially charged public policy issues, psychology no longer has the diversity to ensure that the cross-checking procedure can operate.

Obviously, greater intellectual diversity among researchers would be a key corrective, but adversarial collaboration is also critical. You can’t study contentious topics properly with a lab full of people who think alike. If you try to do so, you will end up creating scale items that produce correlations that are inaccurate by a factor of two … like I once did. Alas, the field whose job it is to study myside bias won’t take steps to control for this epistemic flaw in its own work.
 
Author isn't wrong, but they focus too much on "letting the other side in". That only addresses the bad faith corruption of specific studies that don't actually matter.

The real problem is that psych studies don't replicate. Even the properly written ones, with little or no political bias. Complaining about a specific sector of the field being corrupt, when the entire field is increasingly suspect, is like putting out a grease fire on your stove while your roof slowly burns down.

Edit: I don't want to minimize the problems the article points out, it's actually well written and researched. But I don't think this is a straightforward case of politics corrupting science. It's a case where the science itself is bad; it's so weak that it allows for political corruption, in a way hard sciences like physics or chemistry naturally resist.

Getting the politics out of psych won't save psych, if the science remains so weak it can be corrupted by similar forces. It could even get re-corrupted along political lines with a tweaked veneer of objectivity.
 
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In a nutshell: psychological tests that purportedly test for "racism" or "conspiracy beliefs" or "anti-science attitude" don't test anything of the sort; they test how much a person deviates from liberal groupthink.
 
Remember when "science" said the Sun revolved around the Earth? Science can often be wrong, it requires proof and testing, the scientific method, and deduction. Science is not something to be "believed" in, you either test and prove or test and disprove. Turning quasi-social Science into your new religion to fill the post-modern void is not going to end well for society.
 
Galileo did nothing wrong, damnit.

I wanted to like this because the author really isn't wrong, and also because it was clearly thoughtfully written with what seem like good intentions. Sadly nobody will listen to them and nothing will come of it, so ultimately I don't know that it matters.
 
Author isn't wrong, but they focus too much on "letting the other side in". That only addresses the bad faith corruption of specific studies that don't actually matter.

The real problem is that psych studies don't replicate. Even the properly written ones, with little or no political bias. Complaining about a specific sector of the field being corrupt, when the entire field is increasingly suspect, is like putting out a grease fire on your stove while your roof slowly burns down.

Edit: I don't want to minimize the problems the article points out, it's actually well written and researched. But I don't think this is a straightforward case of politics corrupting science. It's a case where the science itself is bad; it's so weak that it allows for political corruption, in a way hard sciences like physics or chemistry naturally resist.

Getting the politics out of psych won't save psych, if the science remains so weak it can be corrupted by similar forces. It could even get re-corrupted along political lines with a tweaked veneer of objectivity.
While I mostly agree with your assessment, I've got two main counterpoints:

Reproduction is not just a Psych/SocSci problem.
Yes, they're particularly bad. A psyche study comes out saying "this stimulus results in this reaction" and then everyone takes it at face value. Hard sciences tend to be a bit more "self correcting" as "These chemicals + this catalyst = this product" opens itself up to more research on how that process may be manipulated for a desired result. Someone with that question is going to find out if that the initial reaction simply doesn't exist. I feel like that sort of curiosity doesn't exist in Psyche/SocSci. Too many of them go into it to become the "experts" that get to tell people how to behave/think. Much like how most grade school teachers are shit because they go into it thinking it's gonna be like Freedom Writers or whatever gay shit ignited them to "mold young minds."
If actual curiosity could be fostered in these fields, we might see more replication naturally occur. If a particular study shows "X leads to Y," one should be excited about some studies that are attempting to add or take away stimulus to see if the result changes. the experimental group of the previous study becomes the control group. And if this control group doesn't match the experimental group of the previous study, something's clearly wrong and this naturally prompts questions about the initial finding. This is what typically prompts replication.

You eat an elephant one bite at a time.
The whole mindset of "why this problem and not that?" is typically just an impediment towards progress.
Yes, maybe there are bigger problems with these fields than the political bias. But that's not what he's addressing. He is addressing his own pet problem among a slew of others. New problems may arise in the effort to solve his problem. But the field should be expected to get better as a result, if only a little bit...
 
Author isn't wrong, but they focus too much on "letting the other side in". That only addresses the bad faith corruption of specific studies that don't actually matter.

The real problem is that psych studies don't replicate. Even the properly written ones, with little or no political bias. Complaining about a specific sector of the field being corrupt, when the entire field is increasingly suspect, is like putting out a grease fire on your stove while your roof slowly burns down.

Edit: I don't want to minimize the problems the article points out, it's actually well written and researched. But I don't think this is a straightforward case of politics corrupting science. It's a case where the science itself is bad; it's so weak that it allows for political corruption, in a way hard sciences like physics or chemistry naturally resist.

Getting the politics out of psych won't save psych, if the science remains so weak it can be corrupted by similar forces. It could even get re-corrupted along political lines with a tweaked veneer of objectivity.
Reminds me of the Stanford Prison Experiment. You know what the Stanford Prison Experiment taught us about human nature and power differentials? Fucking nothing. It was a single experiment, which was essentially hijacked by insufficiently vetted subjects and provided a single point of shit data. The fact that anyone knows or cares about it is a monument to the stupidity of the social sciences and how much they amplify anything that gives them the conclusion they want, burying everything else.
 
I quit trusting those dumbass tests like 30 years ago.

We had a new CO who made everyone take a fucking test to see how many alcoholics were in the unit.

One of the questions was: "Have you ever taken a test to determine if you were an alcoholic (This test counts)"

If you answered yes it was worth 101 points.

Anyone over 100 points was an alcoholic.

He got the test OUT OF A FUCKING BOOK.
 
Turning quasi-social Science into your new religion to fill the post-modern void is not going to end well for society.
Isn't post-modernism just a void you get to fill with whatever bullshit you made up to suit your own rules? "Lived experience" and all that?

To my understanding it is finger-painting-with-your-feces-on-the-wall but somehow is something that is taken seriously academically because it suits their political needs for the moment.

Post-modernism is Calvinball philosophy, essentially.

That said, and I am no expert in philosophy by a very long shot, but modernism is no better. Classicism is what they are rebelling against. The ancients tried as much as they could to learn about the Natural Laws. Everyone after has been trying to pretend that shit doesn't exist so that they can go off-roading.

The new shit is just repackaged solipsism that the ancient philosophers fought against.
 
Isn't post-modernism just a void you get to fill with whatever bullshit you made up to suit your own rules? "Lived experience" and all that?

To my understanding it is finger-painting-with-your-feces-on-the-wall but somehow is something that is taken seriously academically because it suits their political needs for the moment.

Post-modernism is Calvinball philosophy, essentially.

That said, and I am no expert in philosophy by a very long shot, but modernism is no better. Classicism is what they are rebelling against. The ancients tried as much as they could to learn about the Natural Laws. Everyone after has been trying to pretend that shit doesn't exist so that they can go off-roading.

The new shit is just repackaged solipsism that the ancient philosophers fought against.
Sort of. The issue is that post-modernism requires a strong grasp of modernist philosophical thought. It's essentially a critique of modernism by way of the edge cases, the cracks where reason and rationality fall apart. The problem is that it's being taught to children who don't understand what they're critiquing or what it means, so they think the equivalent of "If Newtonian physics breaks down in the supergravity of a black hole, then it's not real at all and I can fly if I want to!"
 
Social studies are not science. its just mumbojumbo for the feeble minded that wanted to study but couldnt be asked to put in the work for something useful...

the only field worse than social studies are shrinks. Its a useless field that never accomplished anything positive. they play make believe for 45 minutes and than give you some pills to fix your brain chemistry. they are so hopeless that they give out psychopharmaca to every kid that doesnt behave like they should and to every teen that thinks the world is shit.
They also decry early practitioners and laugh about them, but they are doing the same as Freud did, stupid talking and than some drugs to do all the work.

I say F them all, Put them in the Acid mines, All of them...
 
strong grasp of modernist philosophical thought.
Yeah, that's the part I struggle with. What is Modernism? It doesn't even have a wikipedia page.

Yeah yeah, I'm that guy who uses wiki to fill the gaps in knowledge. But it is extremely weird that there isn't anything there. It is like post-modernism is fighting at ghosts. Hence the phrasing of my original posts. The ancient Greeks had their faults but at least they existed and have a present day army of autists to show up and defend them.

Modernists ain't got nobody to hang their hat on. No anchor. Now, I'm just a simple shitposter so I don't know how it works in academia or whatever but even I can see that is a particularly unsound foundation for a philosophy. Which is probably why their antagonist, the retard army, is running roughshod over them. Just a guess.
 
Reminds me of the Stanford Prison Experiment. You know what the Stanford Prison Experiment taught us about human nature and power differentials? Fucking nothing.
It's the same with Milgram's experiment and maybe others. Milgram's ostensibly proves that everybody is a nahzee.
they are so hopeless that they give out psychopharmaca to every kid that doesnt behave like they should and to every teen that thinks the world is shit.
Tangentially related, there was recently a scandal in Germany in which a child psychiatrist (Michael Winterhoff) was dosing kids with off-label antipsychotics. Shrinks are really just advanced voodoo priests.
 
Reproduction is not just a Psych/SocSci problem.
Oh I know, I'm just saving you all a much longer rant about the state of science generally.

You make a good point about curiosity. I suspect this stems from psychs, and social studies fields generally, tacitly acknowledging they aren't in a true causal field. If I tell you compound X has Y properties, and you have a use for something close to Y, you are suddenly interested in studying X. But psychs can't say X has Y, they can only say "if I apply X to subjects, I get Y roughly Z% of the time".

I have a low enough opinion of the social sciences that I'll accuse them of being the catch-all field, the one you go into if you aren't smart enough or rigorous enough to hack it in the harder sciences. This damning quote from Richard Feynman still rings true today:

“There’s all kinds of myths and pseudoscience all over the place. I may be quite wrong, maybe they do know all these things, but I don’t think I’m wrong. You see, I have the advantage of having found out how hard it is to get to really know something, how careful you have to be about checking the experiments, how easy it is to make mistakes and fool yourself.​
"I know what it means to know something, and therefore I see how they get their information and I can’t believe that they know it. They haven’t done the work necessary, haven’t done the checks necessary, haven’t taken the care necessary. I have a great suspicion that they don’t know, that this stuff is [wrong] and that they’re intimidating people.” — Richard P. Feynman, The Pleasure of Finding Things Out.​

Feynman was being asked about "social sciences" when he gave that response.

You eat an elephant one bite at a time.

Fair enough. But the elephant doesn't regenerate. If you eat a D&D-style troll one bite at a time, he'll revive and punch you again.

If you present a convincing case that political studies in psych are flawed, you might shame the practitioners into withdrawing a few studies, or writing exculpatory papers that no one reads. But you aren't going to get the political motivation out of psych practitioners. They're going to challenge you to put forward a framework where political studies can be "objective", they're going to scrutinize your suggested methodology for loopholes, and they're going to find a way to outwardly comply but subvert the restrictions in other ways. 10 years later Republicans will be "scientifically" determined racist bigots again, this time under the approval stamp of The New Objective Way Of Doing Things.

This guy has his small problem area well examined, but he can't keep his enemies from re-engaging in bad behavior even if he wins the argument. He needs allies attacking the other foundations of psych, who can overhaul the whole way they do research.
 
Yeah, that's the part I struggle with. What is Modernism? It doesn't even have a wikipedia page.
It's essentially scientific rationalism, based in objective evidence. It's the water we swim in. So stuff like "innocent until proven guilty" is a modernist philosophical concept. You need evidence to back up claims to necessitate action. So a post-modern critique to that would be "all evidence is filtered through individual perception so you are essentially acting on only the evidence you believe is real" etc. It's true, but at the same time the modernist interpretation is true as well. The theory of individual development regarding philosophy posits that all humans start off as solipsistic infants, then develop a sense of self and other. From there, they develop a tribalist mindset of us and them, followed by a modernist concept of evidence and equality under the law. After that, comes the post-modern understanding of universalism and equity followed by the final integrationist viewpoint that every one of these stages is true simultaneously and should not be in conflict with each other. Most of the world stops developing in the tribal mindset...

I suspect that much of the dysfunction we see is from people with a tribal understanding being guided and molded by people with a post-modern understanding, completely skipping the modern foundation. It's the equivalent of child molestation. Kids aren't emotionally or physically developed enough to deal with the complication of sexual interaction. They likely will be one day, but if you introduce them to these things before they're ready it will deform their brains and scar them. The same is true to some extent philosophically. If you take some nog with an Us vs. Them outlook and then teach them equity and so forth without the foundation of what it means or how to get there, then you have a fucking mess like giving someone a post-modern bus schedule or something. It's totally non-functional.

It's the same with Milgram's experiment and maybe others. Milgram's ostensibly proves that everybody is a nahzee.
Milligram's experiment on authority is miles ahead of Stanford. It had a wide range of test subjects, instead of just being limited to one shot with a dozen California hippies hiding out from Vietnam, and he repeated it over and over, getting consistent results. Additionally, international psychology wasn't super jazzed by the conclusion that most people (everyone but some Quaker, iirc) are blindly obedient to the point of being indifferent to the suffering of others. Milligram went on to do a lot of really scary and good work.
 
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