Culture The People Without A Past - Why Americans aren’t going to listen to Putin’s history lecture

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Tucker Carlson scored a massive coup with his Vladimir Putin interview. It drew international attention to the former Fox News host, with the European Union even threatening to sanction the conservative commentator. While the interview will be discussed in newspapers across the world, don’t expect many Americans to watch it.

The blame for that doesn’t lie with Tucker–it lies with Putin.

The Russian president decided to give a long-winded history lecture for the first thirty minutes of the interview. The lecture sought to inform the audience of why Russia cares so deeply about Ukraine. But most will tune out when they hear it begins in the Middle Ages and delves deeply into the obscure and confusing turns of Slavic history. Americans will switch to watching more clips about the upcoming Super Bowl.

Some people appreciated Putin’s history lesson. It’s unheard of for American politicians to display such a thorough grasp of historical knowledge. It’s definitely different from the platitudes and Hollywood history we get from our leaders. And it’s certainly better than our current president mixing up Mexico with Egypt.

But the people who enjoyed Putin’s monologue are not his intended audience. The Russian president wanted his interview to be a chance to speak with ordinary Americans. He chose the wrong way to reach them.

Not only do Americans know little about Eastern European history, they know little about history in general. And they don’t care about this ignorance. Americans are a people who left the past behind. That’s part of the new American identity.

This is different from Europeans, particularly those in the East. Their identities are intimately tied with events in the distant past. Serbs, for instance, are obsessed with battles and humiliations that occurred in times before Columbus sailed the ocean blue. In the 1990s, Americans could never grasp why Serbs would be so fixated on Kosovo. Yanks certainly couldn’t understand the vicious ethnic hatreds of the region either. A leader like Slobodan Milosevic justifying modern actions with appeals to a 14th century battle could never be comprehended by Americans.

The past is still very much alive in Eastern Europe. It animates the war in Ukraine, regional fear of Russia, and Putin’s ambitions. The strong ethnic identities and hatreds are kept alive by a strong remembrance of the past. Many of the events that drive these passions occurred before the Declaration of Independence was even signed.

Americans, on the other hand, are very different. We left our ethnic traditions and animosities back in the Old World. Many of us have been here for centuries and lost all ties back to Europe. Even more recent arrivals don’t have a sense of the old ethnic identity besides a shirt that declares “Kiss Me, I’m Irish.” Ethnic animosities are a trait of the newer immigrants. Heritage Americans don’t exhibit it.

Much of the mythology surrounding America extols it as a land where you leave the past behind and your new identity was shaped by the frontier or melting pot. The old ethnic grievances were abandoned in favor of caring deeply about the Founders, the Civil War, and the other important events of the more recent past. American history strongly differs from European histories. With a few exceptions, our popular history is one of uplift and progress. It’s an optimistic vision of Americans going from one success to another. We’ve overcome all enemies and have little to be hung up about (this is different for blacks, Indians, and other minorities, however). History, for most Europeans, is full of tragedy, humiliations, lost territory, and unreconciled resentments. There are great achievements and points of pride as well, but it’s not a sunny “City on a Hill” vision. It’s more like Putin’s monologue.

But Americans increasingly don’t even care about our popular history. We made national parks out of our battles and preserved the houses and buildings where our history took place. The 100th anniversary of the Civil War and the Bicentennial were major events. But this is now the past. The 150th anniversary of the Civil War passed in the last decade with hardly any notice. There were no public remembrances of the 400th anniversary of the Plymouth Rock landing in 2020. Just one third of Americans have enough historical knowledge to pass a citizenship test. The majority of Americans can’t even identify who we fought in World War II.

This doesn’t really bother the majority of us. That’s because we have a new mythos that’s replaced actual history. Marvel, Star Wars, and other popular franchises serve as our reference points for world affairs. When the Ukraine War broke out, many commentators explained the conflict through the lens of The Avengers. Harry Potter references were frequently deployed by politicians and media outlets to showcase the alleged evil of the Trump administration. Past political leaders utilized allusions from the Bible, classical works, and American history to illustrate their points to the public. Now our leaders cite Spider-Man and Voldemort. World War II is the only historical event most Americans are familiar with due to its inclusion in comic book films and video games. The Nazis stand as the ultimate bad guys in American mythology–our countrymen just might not know which country they ruled.

If Putin really wanted to reach the American public, he would’ve portrayed the Ukrainian conflict in terms drawn from the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

This lack of a past is obviously a problem. A people without a heritage are an easily controlled and manipulated people. They will care about little besides filling their belly. They lack any real identity and just live life to consume. They won’t care about mass immigration or cultural revolutions. As long as they can watch the new Marvel movie and smoke weed, life is good for them.

This Last Man scenario is grim beyond belief. It’s a critical task to infuse the historic American people with a sense of their heritage again. It will be different from the past that animate Russians and Ukrainians. It will be unique to the American experience, but it will be a past nonetheless. Without one, Americans are greatly susceptible to turning into libtards. With one, they’re capable of resisting their own replacement.

Reviving our heritage is a critical task for our side. Only a people with a past can have a future.
 
This article is sadly true, and the worst part is that while the postmodern left has known to wipe out and destroy and belittle America's past, the right decides to divide itself with a subversive faction that agrees to the left's own language and also asserts America has no history or heritage (See the Amerimutt meme). This post modern deconstructionism is a cancer that's infecting the right too, and it needs to end. We should be proud we told the crown to fuck off, we should be proud of our various inventions, we should be proud of our older literature, we should be proud of heroes seen at Athens Tennessee. The left doesn't teach this history, intentionally so, and it opens the door for demoralization. Don't fall for it.
 
Just wish I could send everyone in the country a copy of the book Bloodlands. Would provide a quick course on the basics of Russian/Polish/Ukrainian/Baltic history towards each other and all the blood that has been spilled, is being spilled now, and may be spilled in the future.
 
Just wish I could send everyone in the country a copy of the book Bloodlands. Would provide a quick course on the basics of Russian/Polish/Ukrainian/Baltic history towards each other and all the blood that has been spilled, is being spilled now, and may be spilled in the future.
What's your deal with this book? I've read parts of it, it's only okay.
 
Fucking what?
Nerd chic has resulted in a societal upheaval in terms of pop culture as metaphor for history. Used to be basic bitch classic literature or shit like Gilbert and Sullivan (rich shit musical theater garbage) was the thing people referenced in relations to pop culture metaphor for history, especially since for better or worse, the snobbery relating to G&S (as seen on the West Wing) and Shakespeare has made them unusable due to the people who espouse them as the be-all, end-all for said metaphorism were as snotty and unlikable and borderline retarded like the people who use Harry Potter, Star Wars, and the MCU for their societal/political metaphors.
 
Nerd chic has resulted in a societal upheaval in terms of pop culture as metaphor for history. Used to be basic bitch classic literature or shit like Gilbert and Sullivan (rich shit musical theater garbage) was the thing people referenced in relations to pop culture metaphor for history, especially since for better or worse, the snobbery relating to G&S (as seen on the West Wing) and Shakespeare has made them unusable due to the people who espouse them as the be-all, end-all for said metaphorism were as snotty and unlikable and borderline retarded like the people who use Harry Potter, Star Wars, and the MCU for their societal/political metaphors.
It's really a shame that modern consoom popculture has to exist, sours the fact that I do like Star Wars and Comics.
 
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Americans, on the other hand, are very different. We left our ethnic traditions and animosities back in the Old World.
No, we didn't.
They're just forcibly suppressed by the government, which is why we have only 60% at best participation rate in elections.
The last time a party actually supported us for who we are as Americans was before the late 1950's.
 
Much of the mythology surrounding America extols it as a land where you leave the past behind and your new identity was shaped by the frontier or melting pot. The old ethnic grievances were abandoned in favor of caring deeply about the Founders, the Civil War, and the other important events of the more recent past
No one left their past behind you fucking retard. They bound together. You and your faggot friends want to blow everything apart.

Literally kill yourself.
 
What's your deal with this book? I've read parts of it, it's only okay.
Author is connected to the glowie faction that wants to destroy Russia so they gave him the money to write it and have a book published by an academic they (and their supporters) can point to and tell the plebes "See? This really smart and educated guys said so/agrees!" It's the McDonald's Happy Meal version of those historical events.

But if you really are interested in the how and why, read that book and immediately after read "Blood Lies: The Evidence that Every Accusation against Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union in Timothy Snyder's Bloodlands Is False" and then decided if you want to really examine every detail, every instance, every historical event going back to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and then some.

Ultimately those books don't matter. What matters are the consequences of the US meddling in Eastern Europe in matters that only benefit our American oligarchs, and the insistence Americans concern themselves with defending Ukraine's borders when our own own border is wide open to let in migrants to replace us. Tell you all you need to know about who's behind it, and why.
 
Most Americans are fucking ignorant. Obviously not you fuckers, but if I want to become a US citizen I need to answer a citizenship test that ~70% of actual US citizens would fucking fail.

After the Putin/Biden interviews dropped I chatted with Mrs Vesperus about the Spanish/American war.

I bet you a pint you can't ask around your local Walmart and find anyone who can tell you what decade that was.

It's not that Americans are stupid. But Jesus Fucking Christ you are ignorant.
 
The USA has history, the issue is that both political wings want that history to completely fit their worldview, so they try to meme that America has no history.

The comparison with East Europe history, as if it is better, is insane though. The countries there have been killing, enslaving and raping one another for centuries over feuds. It's the worse kind of shared history which results in non ending conflicts.

Also in general the focus on history by autists is more akin to wanting a Dark Souls esque "deep lore" than actual wanting both the advantages and disadvantages of shared history.
 
The USA has history
Yes we do!
  • The Far East migration across the Bering Strait and into the Americas
  • Occasion forays by distant people, like Vikings and maybe Chinese naval ships
  • English pirates on the West Coast
  • English adventurers in the mid-Atlantic
  • The settlement by the Spanish Crown in Florida throughout the Southwest to California, Oregón and Colorado
  • Puritans with their annoying Blue Laws in New England
  • Dutch settlement in New Amsterdam
  • Of course the French, as usual, are late to the party in Louisiana
  • Russian adventurers and a few settlements from California to Alaska
But because of our shitty public school education and sloppy media everyone believes a bunch of religious fundamentalists from England discovered America in 1620 and everything sort of popped up as America moved West. Pure filthy Anglo/Judeo propaganda that prevented us from being analogous to the Russian Empire. Literally all of North America, from Alaska to the Yucatan, could have been ours.

But instead we decided to sperg over obsolete farm equipment.
 
The USA has history, the issue is that both political wings want that history to completely fit their worldview, so they try to meme that America has no history.
The issue with American history is that most Americans would rather not dwell on the fact that they spent 90% of it slapfighting over whether black people are property.
 
Literally all of North America, from Alaska to the Yucatan, could have been ours.
God no. Mexico and Mexicans corrupt everything they touch, and if we snatched up Canada we'd be dealing with Quebecois, who are possibly even worse than Mexicans. Fuck both those places.
 
For what it's worth, John Paul Jones will always be a personal hero of mine, and I hate the British. Imagine inventing a language and being the worst at speaking it.

My family history is chopping wood in Germany since 1400, sailing to the US in the 1800's, then chopping wood and homesteading on the same farm until my grandparents sold it so they could blow it all away on bullshit consumerism. I've finally got a homestead going on my own dime, and I think it's getting warm enough to go chop some wood.
 
Rachel Maddow's a-block last night was typically long and interesting and I'm going to try to pick the interesting part out.

According to Maddow, one of the Nazi apologist lines around WWII is that the Poles had basically forced Hitler to invade them. She cited Masha Gessen's piece in the New Yorker, which said:

During the interview, Putin gave every indication that he thinks of former imperial possessions as still rightfully Russia’s. That would include not only former Soviet republics but also Finland and Poland. “The professional liars in Washington . . . are trying to convince you that this guy is Hitler, that he is trying to take the Sudetenland, or something,” Carlson continued. “Not analogous in any way!” In fact, Putin had clearly, and more explicitly than ever before, channelled Hitler during the interview. This is what a tyrant looks like: small, and full of tedious resentments.

I can’t get one passage out of my mind. In the history-lecture portion of the interview, when Putin got to 1939, he said, “Poland coöperated with Germany, but then it refused to comply with Hitler’s demands. . . . By not ceding the Danzig Corridor to Hitler, Poles forced him, they overplayed their hand and they forced Hitler to start the Second World War by attacking Poland.” (This is my translation.) The idea that the victim of the attack serves as its instigator by forcing the hand of the aggressor is central to all of Putin’s explanations for Russia’s war in Ukraine. To my knowledge, though, this was the first time he described Hitler’s aggression in the same terms.

Maddow then tied this back to Trump saying that he wants to pull out of NATO and if Russia attacked a NATO country such as Poland, we wouldn't do shit about it.

She's a big Tim Snyder fan.


 
America has history, in plenty.

What it does not have is blood and soil nationalism, and I agree with my friend @JosephStalin up there: it is nearly impossible to explain the emotional and psychological power blood and soil nationalism has over a people unless and until it is evoked.

Of the three large-scale states that are/were the principal world actors post-World War 2, America is the only one who cannot pull this card because the American people are overwhelmingly not indigenous to any part of North America. The Russians and the Chinese can always pull that card. This is your land. You are of this land. Your ancestors, generation upon generation, lived and died here. No Mayflower or slave ship brought you here. This is where you belong, and this land belongs to you. This is your culture, forged from your land and your blood. Yes, the PRC would like everyone to focus on the ethnic history of the Han people only, but the homeland of the Han people is actually in fucking China. The ethnic history of the Pilgrims and the slaves lies half a world away from North America. American culture, its institutions, even its dominant language(s), was not born in Montana or North Dakota or Ohio. They were conceived and born in Rome, in Athens, in London. The nation's peoples and cultures are imports.

In World War 2, America defended its position as a leading world power and its interests in Asia. The Russians fought for their existential future as a nation. There is an absolute chasm between the two.

Even the most lukewarm normie will fight harder to defend their home and people than they will for strangers. The danger in the constructed "American identity" falling apart due to widening differences in politics, inequality, religion, race etc etc is that there can come a point where enough Americans no longer view America as a place with enough homogenity to be "their home" and "their people".

And that point is almost certainly nearer now that it has been at any point since the civil war. It used to be flippantly said amongst the commentariat that there were "two Americas". I think you would now struggle to identify only two.

Putin attempted to explain this in the Carlson interview, but this point won't be listened to, because blood and soil nationalism has been absolutely demonised post-World War 2 due to Hitler's enthusiastic embrace of it.

But. The reason he embraced it is because generation after generation, century after century, it remains such a powerful concept.
 
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