The Official Simpsons Griefing Thread

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Jasonfan89 said:
Apparently the writers originally wanted Barney to be the one who shot him and... Yeah if you pay attention in part 1 he has the most motivation next to moe to do it and it's practically rubbed in our faces that he's itching to do it.

The whole smithers ending which was the only one fully finished was apparently almost made the cannon ending, but with zombie Simpson on the horizon.. Yeah they said fuck it Maggie did it even though the smithers ending still embraced status quo is god.


Fuck who shot Mr burns had a lot of potential but it really should have been a season 3 or 4 episode not fucking 6 going on 7
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IIRC, I think they had multiple endings written for the cliffhanger, and several were animated in advance to prevent leaks. Some of them were showed in the third clip show episode with Troy McClure alongside obviously faked endings animated for that episode.

I know Barney and Smithers shooting Mr. Burns were among the ones that got animated, but at the same time, I think the plan was to have Maggie shoot Mr. Burns or something similarly dumb because it was meant to be a parody of the "epic cliffhanger season finale" cliche, which is why they specifically parodied the "Who Shot J.R.?" episode from Dallas.

I wouldn't be surprised if the writers toyed with the idea of a serious conclusion with Smithers or Barney as the culprit, and that stuff likely all made it in as red herrings to help throw off the audience and prevent leaks.

Oddly enough, one guy actually figured it all out before the second part aired and sent in his answer for the big promo sweepstakes that Fox did that summer, but also never showed up to claim the prize.

The writers even talk about it on the audio commentary for the episode on DVD.

Personally, I think the guy who figured out that Maggie shot Mr. Burns in advance was probably someone who worked on the show using a fake name and return address playing a prank on the writers and producers, which could explain why he never showed up to claim the prize.

Also, I think @Jasonfan89 brings up a good point about Seasons 9-13. They did try to change the show and establish a more firm continuity, even if it wasn't as good as the "Golden Age" episodes, and I personally like those seasons.

I never understood why Maude's death is such a deal-breaker for people. She wasn't that big of a character compared to Ned Flanders or even Rod and Todd, and prior to her death, was mostly known for the fact that Homer thought she was hot.

Even the really egregious episodes like "The Principal and The Pauper" and "Saddlesore Galactica" were meant as obvious jokes and self-parody kinda like "Who Shot Mr. Burns?"

Honestly, I think even the legit crappy episodes from that era like "Kill The Alligator and Run" were nowhere near as bad as even the most mild Zombie Simpsons episodes.

"Kill The Alligator and Run" was to Season 11 what "Lisa The Vegetarian" was to Season 7, a really bad episode and the worst of that particular season, but I wouldn't put it on my list of "Worst Episodes Ever", especially nowadays.

Seasons 1-8 were the Golden Age and I think that's universally agreed upon, Seasons 9-12 were a Silver Age that I think get a lot of undue hate, especially when compared to what came later.

Really, it's not until Season 14 or 15 that you really start to see true "Zombie Simpsons" really set in, and that transformation is fully completed after The Simpsons Movie.

Oddly enough, I actually liked some of the episodes in Season 15, most notably "Margical History Tour", but that's partly because Amadeus is one of my favorite movies of all time and I always was a sucker for the "three shorts" episodes.
 
Syaoran Li said:
I never understood why Maude's death is such a deal-breaker for people. She wasn't that big of a character compared to Ned Flanders or even Rod and Todd, and prior to her death, was mostly known for the fact that Homer thought she was hot.
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The thing about Maude's death was how it solidified the idea of "Jerkass Homer" -- as in the version of Homer where he's an insufferable asshole with little empathy. This is compared to earlier seasons when although he had anger issues and bouts of violence, in later seasons he was just a plain asshole. The circumstances leading up to Maude's death were Homer's fault, and after she dies he even admits that she didn't make it to the hospital in time because he was parked in the ambulance lane. This was played off for laughs, and Homer was unapologetic about it.
 
Syaoran Li said:
I never understood why Maude's death is such a deal-breaker for people.
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Yeah nobody really cares about Maude, it's just the way they went about it was awful. Bleeding Gums Murphy wasn't that big a character either but he got a really good and respectful episode dedicated to his death in contrast to Maude where it's half sad stuff half wacky Jerkass Homer Hijinks.
 
vertexwindi said:
Yeah nobody really cares about Maude, it's just the way they went about it was awful. Bleeding Gums Murphy wasn't that big a character either but he got a really good and respectful episode dedicated to his death in contrast to Maude where it's half sad stuff half wacky Jerkass Homer Hijinks.
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Hell, I forgot about Bleeding Gums. Does Lisa still play the saxaphone in modern Simpsons?
 
Syaoran Li said:
IIRC, I think they had multiple endings written for the cliffhanger, and several were animated in advance to prevent leaks. Some of them were showed in the third clip show episode with Troy McClure alongside obviously faked endings animated for that episode.

I know Barney and Smithers shooting Mr. Burns were among the ones that got animated, but at the same time, I think the plan was to have Maggie shoot Mr. Burns or something similarly dumb because it was meant to be a parody of the "epic cliffhanger season finale" cliche, which is why they specifically parodied the "Who Shot J.R.?" episode from Dallas.

I wouldn't be surprised if the writers toyed with the idea of a serious conclusion with Smithers or Barney as the culprit, and that stuff likely all made it in as red herrings to help throw off the audience and prevent leaks.

Oddly enough, one guy actually figured it all out before the second part aired and sent in his answer for the big promo sweepstakes that Fox did that summer, but also never showed up to claim the prize.

The writers even talk about it on the audio commentary for the episode on DVD.

Personally, I think the guy who figured out that Maggie shot Mr. Burns in advance was probably someone who worked on the show using a fake name and return address playing a prank on the writers and producers, which could explain why he never showed up to claim the prize.

Also, I think @Jasonfan89 brings up a good point about Seasons 9-13. They did try to change the show and establish a more firm continuity, even if it wasn't as good as the "Golden Age" episodes, and I personally like those seasons.

I never understood why Maude's death is such a deal-breaker for people. She wasn't that big of a character compared to Ned Flanders or even Rod and Todd, and prior to her death, was mostly known for the fact that Homer thought she was hot.

Even the really egregious episodes like "The Principal and The Pauper" and "Saddlesore Galactica" were meant as obvious jokes and self-parody kinda like "Who Shot Mr. Burns?"

Honestly, I think even the legit crappy episodes from that era like "Kill The Alligator and Run" were nowhere near as bad as even the most mild Zombie Simpsons episodes.

"Kill The Alligator and Run" was to Season 11 what "Lisa The Vegetarian" was to Season 7, a really bad episode and the worst of that particular season, but I wouldn't put it on my list of "Worst Episodes Ever", especially nowadays.

Seasons 1-8 were the Golden Age and I think that's universally agreed upon, Seasons 9-12 were a Silver Age that I think get a lot of undue hate, especially when compared to what came later.

Really, it's not until Season 14 or 15 that you really start to see true "Zombie Simpsons" really set in, and that transformation is fully completed after The Simpsons Movie.

Oddly enough, I actually liked some of the episodes in Season 15, most notably "Margical History Tour", but that's partly because Amadeus is one of my favorite movies of all time and I always was a sucker for the "three shorts" episodes.
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Kill the alligator and run actually had a few funny moments mostly during the spring break segment. Especially homer and the giant duff 45 that he chugged while going "all for Homer. " ik it's a jerkass moment but I just find funny how he gets tanked in like three sips (this was before I realized malt liquor is a stronger beer almost like hard liquor)

Thought to be honest I think king of the hill did the 90s/y2k spring break episode better with escape from party island (iirc the right title) where Hank had to his mom and her old lady friends away from a bunch of rowdy spring break crowds... Hell family guy did the spring break episode better and that's because it was a b story and back when that show could be considered good
 
ditto said:
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Hell, I forgot about Bleeding Gums. Does Lisa still play the saxaphone in modern Simpsons?
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I’ve always wanted a framed still of this scene for my house; Lisa Simpson is the sole reason I ever picked up a saxophone.

In regard to seasons 10-13 or so, I still think the show was pretty watchable at that point but like some people have said, Jerkass Homer is in full swing by that point and he just ceases to be a sympathetic character. (The same with Lisa, you stopped feeling bad for her being so lonely and unfulfilled because she became such an insufferable know-it-all) I remember catching Viva Ned Flanders not too long ago which I had always remembered as a funny episode, and while it does have good jokes Homer is just soo fucking obnoxious and cruel in that episode. The jokes remained funny and clever way past the golden age even if they were less numerous, it’s just the gradual degradation of the characters and increasingly wacky plots and leaning on guest stars appearing as themselves that tanked it.
 
Stalphos Johnson said:
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Chalk that up to klasky cuspo (the original animation staff) they were infamous for making so many goofs and inconsistencies it's why the animation is so different between seasons 1 and 2. They recolored smithers to yellow in his later appearances apparently because it came off in "bad taste" to have a black person in a subservient role to an old rich white guy, and when asked about it the writers shrug it off as smithers having a tan from a vacation that faded over time.

Remember Smithers wasn't originally intended to be gay. His loyalty bordering on obsession with Mr burns was originally just him being an ass kisser who rose through the ranks at the plant and kept his position of power by being burns personal yesman.
 
Jasonfan89 said:
Chalk that up to klasky cuspo (the original animation staff) they were infamous for making so many goofs and inconsistencies it's why the animation is so different between seasons 1 and 2. They recolored smithers to yellow in his later appearances apparently because it came off in "bad taste" to have a black person in a subservient role to an old rich white guy, and when asked about it the writers shrug it off as smithers having a tan from a vacation that faded over time.

Remember Smithers wasn't originally intended to be gay. His loyalty bordering on obsession with Mr burns was originally just him being an ass kisser who rose through the ranks at the plant and kept his position of power by being burns personal yesman.
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Honestly I'm not sure how true this is. In literally one of the first episodes Burns tells Smithers he loves him, and Smithers responds 'the feeling is more than mutual, sir'. Also in (I THINK) the Bartman video, Jeaques (that bowling guy who was in love with Marge) was seen dancing with various women, and finally (to his horror) Smithers. I think Smithers was gay as early as 1990 - what's your source on the explanation for them changing Smithers' skin btw? I honestly just assumed it was a mistake - like Wiggum with black hair or Lou/Judge Snyder being white in some early episodes
 
15967-46393.jpg

This was the first video game I ever personally owned.

It wasn't a very good game (especially compared to the SNES version which I didn't play until WAAAY later), but I still spent hours playing it on my old school brick game boy.
 
Jeff Heaney said:
Honestly I'm not sure how true this is. In literally one of the first episodes Burns tells Smithers he loves him, and Smithers responds 'the feeling is more than mutual, sir'. Also in (I THINK) the Bartman video, Jeaques (that bowling guy who was in love with Marge) was seen dancing with various women, and finally (to his horror) Smithers. I think Smithers was gay as early as 1990 - what's your source on the explanation for them changing Smithers' skin btw? I honestly just assumed it was a mistake - like Wiggum with black hair or Lou/Judge Snyder being white in some early episodes
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Whether he was always gay or straight, what really matters is his character's Flanderization: funnily enough, it's a word coined in reference to the Simpsons. Essentially, Flanderization is when a character's personality is heavily amplified and exaggerated in later installments of a series. In Smithers' case, he was just an ass-kisser who had sexual fantasies about his boss. By the end of the Golden Era, he was just a hyper gay stereotype.

The term Flanderization specifically refers to Ned Flanders' character, and how he greatly changed for the worst in later seasons. Early Ned Flanders was never intended to be a negative stereotype of conservative Christians: he was actually intended to be a "Bizarro Homer", playing on the trope of the grass being greener on the other side. Homer was a fat, lazy idiot with annoying kids, whilst Ned was a happy, successful churchgoing family man whose kids loved and respected him. Ned's Christianity was never really played up for laughs in early episodes, rather it was just to contrast the Simpson family's irreverence. A good example of this is in the 1st season when the Simpson family goes to church and argues with one another like it's a chore, whereas the Flanders are there front-and-center and praying.

To see a really solid example of how his character changed negatively, look for the Season 2 episode "Dog of Death" when Flanders is seen jogging around the neighborhood in brand new sneakers, which Homer is envious of. Homer was fat and couldn't afford expensive toys, whereas Flanders was physically active and was always seen purchasing new things like an RV, a satellite dish, a rec room, and of course expensive shoes.

As the series progressed, Flanders just became a caricature of Christians. His physical fitness and financial success were just kind of dwarfed by his obsession with the Bible, to the point of it being his only defining personality trait. In modern Zombie Simpsons, he's just an annoying conservative who lives, eats, and sleeps religion. Contrast that to the first few seasons when his character was just to serve as the opposite of Homer, and his two sons to serve as polar opposites of Bart.
 
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ditto said:
How long just to watch non-Zombie Simpsons?
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Depends on what your cutoff point is. As this thread shows everybody has a different definition of zombie Simpsons. While we have yet to attract any asspies who love the show even now unconditionally like the living embodiment of the consooomer meme. At the same time there's no Simpsons boomers who's cutoff is say season 1 and the Tracey ullman shorts and not a season afterwards.
 
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