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Propaganda is almost always full of lies to make its position seem tenable.
The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers
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Samson Pumpkin Jr.
kiwifarms.net
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- Jun 13, 2020
Propaganda can be "lies," however propaganda doesn't want to spread the truth it is completely practical in how it is applied. Propaganda is used to convince people to come to your side. Something that is filled with 100% facts can become propaganda if it is presented in that way. You would consider the John Oliver show to be propaganda despite them using *mostly* factual things.
Propaganda is not good or evil it just is
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- Aug 11, 2020
If the holocaust actually happened, where'd all that jew dust go?
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- Jun 14, 2020
at the end of the day, a tool is just a tool. what gives that tool meaning is who uses it and for what purpose.
To be fair he probably meant propaganda is almost always deceitful. Because giving a balanced, objective, view of the truth doesn't gain you anything. At least one of those things has to give.
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- Apr 23, 2018
I believe it happened, but i think the numbers aren't accurate. At the end of the day, tons of folks got killed. Jews being jews they are gonna capitalize on that until the end of time. Don't over 5 million jews get some sort of reparations to this fucking day?
After doing research on what was going on at the time, you can understand why they were treated like they were.. I'm not one to moral fag and claim if it was right or wrong, but it's fucked to claim you don't know why it happened. Hitler was far from the "most evil man to ever live", and it does a real disservice to claim he was.
After doing research on what was going on at the time, you can understand why they were treated like they were.. I'm not one to moral fag and claim if it was right or wrong, but it's fucked to claim you don't know why it happened. Hitler was far from the "most evil man to ever live", and it does a real disservice to claim he was.
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- Jun 14, 2020
Everyone always forgets about the shithole that was the Weimar republic and who was spearheading all of the disgusting hedonistic activity that went on within it, as well as failing to understand just how bad it was, even if all they have to do nowadays is look out of the window to see exactly the same thing happening in front of them being propagated by exactly the same people.
Sad!
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- Feb 2, 2019
I wonder if there are hieroglyphs anywhere saying "we never enslaved them, but we should have"
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- Jun 14, 2020
I'm not sure if there's heiroglyphs, but there's definitely records out there that talk about the yids being a bunch of contractors, originally from Crete, who were eventually kicked out of egypt for worshipping Set as if he were Moloch/ Ba'al, along with all the child sacrifice that their worship entailed, just like they were kicked out of Greece and forced to settle on Crete generations before.
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- Feb 2, 2019
Source?
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- Sep 28, 2019
Here's my thing about holocaust denial. I'm a firm believer in 'question everything'. History is always and forever written by the victors, and the accounts of the 'losers' are often sanitized and prettied up for the papers to make them seem like the token (Heinz Guderian immediately comes to mind). However, in my mind, I am conditioned to recognize a bad faith argument for what it is, a bad faith argument.
You insist on questioning the exact minutae of the Holocaust, and that's fine, you are well within your reasonable rights to question that, hell, I want more concrete details. Nobody really talks about the Roma, gays, Poles, Slavs, or PoW's anymore unless it's to prop up an argument about DA (((JOOZ)))! But why don't you hold the Holomodor, the Khmer Rouge, the Maoist purges, and the Armenian Genocide to the same standard? It appears to me that you're simply picking and choosing your battleground on the grounds that it aligns with your worldviews- that Stalin was an evil son of a bitch who murdered millions (which he was), but (((they))) are milking DA SHOAH!!! and the Jews didn't actually become the victims of a perpetuated campaign of systemic genocide (they did.)
That being said, I don't disagree that the nation of Israel is illegitimate and entirely a product of wealthy Jewish elite strongarming the UK and France into disenfranchising and delegitimizing Palestine, but that's not an argument for or against the Holocaust. The Holocaust could well and truly have happened as it is said while being used as a crutch by intellectually dishonest people, whether those people are exagggerating, telling the truth, or understating the events thereof. However, the repeated insistence on going for the intellectual 'low road', throwing insults, circular rhetoric, and other bad faith tactics present your point of view, to me, for the most part, as being one founded in thinly-veiled cryptofascism blended with a bit of edgy teenage humor. If you had any respect for reasonable discussion insteadof immediately jumping to the most racist, belligerent, and asinine statements, I'd be much more willing to humor you, but as it is, you all look to me like a bunch of angry little nazis that don't like it when people look at you funny for being a bloody fool.
You insist on questioning the exact minutae of the Holocaust, and that's fine, you are well within your reasonable rights to question that, hell, I want more concrete details. Nobody really talks about the Roma, gays, Poles, Slavs, or PoW's anymore unless it's to prop up an argument about DA (((JOOZ)))! But why don't you hold the Holomodor, the Khmer Rouge, the Maoist purges, and the Armenian Genocide to the same standard? It appears to me that you're simply picking and choosing your battleground on the grounds that it aligns with your worldviews- that Stalin was an evil son of a bitch who murdered millions (which he was), but (((they))) are milking DA SHOAH!!! and the Jews didn't actually become the victims of a perpetuated campaign of systemic genocide (they did.)
That being said, I don't disagree that the nation of Israel is illegitimate and entirely a product of wealthy Jewish elite strongarming the UK and France into disenfranchising and delegitimizing Palestine, but that's not an argument for or against the Holocaust. The Holocaust could well and truly have happened as it is said while being used as a crutch by intellectually dishonest people, whether those people are exagggerating, telling the truth, or understating the events thereof. However, the repeated insistence on going for the intellectual 'low road', throwing insults, circular rhetoric, and other bad faith tactics present your point of view, to me, for the most part, as being one founded in thinly-veiled cryptofascism blended with a bit of edgy teenage humor. If you had any respect for reasonable discussion insteadof immediately jumping to the most racist, belligerent, and asinine statements, I'd be much more willing to humor you, but as it is, you all look to me like a bunch of angry little nazis that don't like it when people look at you funny for being a bloody fool.
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- Jun 14, 2020
Except there's no real proof that they were the victims of anything except a mass re-settlement program. You really should read up on the work that the NSDAP did with the German Jews in order to form the nation of Israel.
here's a starting point for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
I honestly can't remember where I read that before, mate. I'm checking with a friend right now to see if he remembers. If neither of us can find it then feel free to disregard the original post.
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- Sep 28, 2019
Thank you for actually providing a source to back up your argument.
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- Feb 2, 2019
I've said it before in this thread. There aren't frequent payments made for those others. Just a year ago, our royal dutch railway was blackmailed into paying exorbitant sums for obeying milotary occupiers and running the trains, even if official version gavevthem no way of knowing that it would be used for a genocide.
These other events put no hand into my pocket to take money from it. And when I do question or debate on these topics, I don't have to hide my identity for fear of legal repercussions. So no, the difference is not some irrational underlaying hatred (though the experience hasn't improved my overal opinion of jewish organisations as none of the money of that dutch railway has gone to roma or gays or other victims of national socialist germany), the difference is that one has frequent political repercussions and the others don't.
Every couple of years a European country wants to ban infant circumcision, as performing cosmetic surgery on babies is kinda against more than a few of our values, even if that seems strange for americans and their love of kellog's move to make it common (would you have defended the acid application on clitoris of baby girls if that suggestion of his had become common place?). And each time the circumcision ban is stopped because of jewish orgs screaming about a second holocaust.
I've had the experience of hearing a high school teacher talk lovingly of having been present at the killing fields in cambodia and she can do so with no risk of political or job results. These other alleged genocides don't have the same political and legal weight in Europe and therefor, they are not treated or discussed in the same way.
Of course you would already know this if you had read some pages of the thread instead of assuming the only possible motive of discussion could be cryptofascism.
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- Sep 28, 2019
I said 'the most part' in my post because I meant 'for the most part' people argue this point in bad faith. I wish other people actually explained their positions and stated their reasons openly without resorting to indirect attacks or disingenuous frivolity.. While I disagree with you, at least you're engaging in the spirit of actual discussion. It's also not about whether it takes money out of your pocket or not, to me. The fact that people will take facts and figures from the Killing Fields or the Great Leap Forward and cite them without even a hint of deeper digging than 'this is the first result I found that looks scholarly', every single minutae of the Holocaust is questioned. It strikes me, personally, as intellectually dishonest. Again, though, it is your right, and if it isn't, it should be your legal right to question events and demand evidence.
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- Feb 2, 2019
What do you disagree on with me?
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As for the disparity between those, I have not looked into those closely, my default position is that I'm skeptical of each side's official story, but they're still useful in making points in comparison to other events and assuming them to be true for arguments sake.
But what I really want to ask, without having much detailed knowledge of research about these other genocides (for reasons I stated in my previous post), how do you know that the claim between official stories and what evidence shows is equally wide between the different genocides you mention?
How do you know that there weren't people that digged into the details and went "ah official story is pretty close to the truth", rather than the chasm there seems to be between official story and the evidence presented in regards to the holocaust?
You say I should have the right to question it. I don't. Our prime minister suggested about 5 years ago that maybe it should be legally safe for people to "have such dumb beliefs" and he was politically raked over the coals for it until he retracted it, that no, there can be no questioning of official story.
Have you never stopped to think why this event has that exception in western democracies (US excluded)? Why this is our china's version of "Tiananmen Square"?
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- Sep 28, 2019
I believe that the Holocaust happened almost entirely as it's been reported, with a few minor snafus people leave out (the initial deportations and ghettoes being more widespread than gas chambers and death camps). This is from my own independent research, occasionally contributed to by, again, people coming to me or sharing information in the spirit of good faith.
We don't know, much for the same reasons we can't be sure about the Holocaust. Like it or not, there is a vested interest for some parties- read: the state of Israel- in the Holocaust narrative remaining unchanged, because Mossad committed literal terrorist action on foreign soil against stateless persons. The same applies to a lot of the Communist massacres and pogroms in history: while I personally believe that they've happened mostly as written, I'm open to hearing different entirely because America, as a nation, has been up until recently vehemently anti-communist, with a vested interest in portraying communist nations as being as terrible as possible, whether that's the official story or not.
The Armenian Genocide is an entire different bag of worms, though. We all have accounts on how it went down and it seems like Turkey is the only person who refuses to even consider the option that it did, for obvious reasons. IDK why no one questions that one, but again, it's one of those situations where if information came out that contradicted the narrative, it would at least merit discussion.
The simple fact is that it is almost impossible to get an entirely unbiased source on any of these genocides, as most organizations involved in reporting and investigation have an agenda. I cannot claim that the discrepancies between the Holomodor and the Holocaust are alike, or one is larger than the other. Unreliable narrators are a dime a dozen in history. I can only note that there are reasons for these discrepancies to exist, and people who benefit from them existing,
TLDR version: I don't have a problem with people questioning the holocaust on principle, it's just the way they go about it, the rhetoric they use, and their complete and utter lack of self-awareness when some of them go on about 'death toll of communism' makes them look like a bunch of SS larpers.
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- Jul 14, 2018
Holocaust ended in 1945, according to Wikipedia there was 3.5 Million survivors. Are you really bothered that the last survivors who are now in their late 70s and older are getting money for what happened to them and their families?