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The Holocaust happened. Plenty of evidence. The deniers are clueless.
The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers
- Thread starter RichardMongler
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one thing about the american
at least we didn't treat the japanese the way the japanese treated the americans
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Yeah, and Japanese in Japan tortured American POWs to death, beheaded them, and literally ate them. I've went over why the atomic bombs were dropped earlier in the thread.
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We vaporized children. Thousands of them. In Hiroshima 90 percent of physicians and nurses were killed or injured; 42 of 45 hospitals were rendered non-functional; and 70 per cent of victims had combined injuries including, in most cases, severe burns. They died slow, wailing, painful deaths while watching everyone they knew or love die alongside them, if they weren't incinerated on the spot. I feel for POW's as much as any son of a soldier, but don't even pretend they're in the same ball park as atrocities go. The use of atomic weapons on major civilian population centers will be the greatest war crime of all time unless and until it ever happens again.
Yes, convenience.
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- Jul 23, 2019
Blah blah blah. Peanuts compared to what the Imperial Japanese Army did in China. And I've gone thru the planning stages for Operation Downfall and the data available to the US Army re Japanese ferocity. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were legitimate industrial targets. The atomic bombs were necessary to convince the Japanese that the USA will not stop until they just stop. What would have happened would probably have been Japan divided in two between Soviet and American occupation zones; what actually did happen was Japan as a safe satellite of the USA with the USSR taking what the Japanese Empire had conquered in the Russo-Japanese war.
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The chinese will eat thousands of their own people to survive sieges. Replacing their government would be a net good.
Cool. The moral high ground is not atop ~226,000 charred bodies of innocents. War is hell. We did bad shit, we don't get to justify it or write it off just because we won, do we?
FlamingPie
kiwifarms.net
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We also don't get to justify it or write it off when we lose, either.
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You really should have thought that one through.
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The USA rebuilt Japan into a country that is more developed than even the USA is now. The USA rebuilt Germany, Japan, and South Korea into three of the most well developed countries in the world. In true victory, the USA was magnanimous.
Womp womp applies when I'm supposed to feel bad about the hundreds of thousands who died in Japan due to a war that the Japanese started. When it happens to the USA, as it is happening now, womp womp will still apply as the American Empire was built on top of exploiting most of the rest of the world.
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The atomic bombings produced fewer aggregate casualties than General LeMay's firebombing campaign against Tokyo in the preceding months. Exactly the same type of deaths and injuries by incineration, asphyxiation, etc, only with no radiation sickness.
The firebombing of densely populated urban centers was legitimized as a conventional tactic by the British and Germans much earlier in the war. The two low-yield atomic bombings were just a minor step up from that.
The firebombing of densely populated urban centers was legitimized as a conventional tactic by the British and Germans much earlier in the war. The two low-yield atomic bombings were just a minor step up from that.
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I agree that it is fair to bring up. I bring it up earlier in the thread IIRC. How does it relate to the part you quoted?
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I literally said why.
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I still don't see how you brought it up in relation to the part you quoted, where I was asking that if it doesn't make nazis look better whether it's 6 million or 600.000 deaths, perhaps the people who argue it aren't trying to rehabilitate nazism.
I've gone over one of the reasons why the topic of the holocaust is still relevant and not some ancient and unimportant history. Just a year ago millions were blackmailed from the dutch royal trains towards holocaust survivors, because it was their trains that were used by germans. Did any of the money go to roma? Of course not. Did any of it go to homosexuals? These groups are not considered holocaust survivors. They are considered survivors of nazi persecution, but not holocaust survivors.
Since the holocaust isn't the german genocide against people, though that definition would make more sense, but the holocaust is the targeted destruction of 6 million jews.
Here are the first links from duckduckgo:
Google:
See how the holocaust itself is defined as concerning itself solely with jewish genocide? See how the first numbers any rando gets are still the admitted invented 6+5 million by wiesenthal?
The kulaks were brought up as a counterpoint to how it's legally safe to say and think all matter of things about the kulaks. The same goes for thinking about the roma persecution. This also does not rehabilitate nazi germany.
I can't look into other people's heads and hearts, but just maybe it usn't my goal to rehabilitate nazi germany. Maybe it isn't for some of the others. I've only been saying so for 22 pages and so have some others.
Revisit the assumption that being a closet nazi is the only possible motivation for puttong questionmarks behind this event and how it's portrayed?
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- Jul 23, 2019
Nice to deflect. Holocaust denial was explicitly stated by either George Lincoln Rockwell or William Luther Pierce to make National Socialism a viable political philosophy again.
Are we supposed to just forget that the Roma were the second most target of the Nazi death camps, and that Mengele targeted Roma the most?
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Alright, thanks for making the accusation straight. My openly expressed doubt about some aspects then too is denial in your dictionary. Tell me. What part of what I said makes me a holocaust denier? Make it crystal clear where the bar is of where historical curiosity/investigation ends and where holocaust denial begins.
As for the roma, it's a disingenous point, since I've brought up a similar point to yours twice earlier in the thread at least. I'll bring up another adjecant one. Even prior to the start of world war 2, Germany sterilized a number of black people against their will. Anyways, back to the roma. Why don't the roma get any of the holocaust money?
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- Jul 23, 2019
"Just asking questions" reaches a point where it's clear you're just being a jerkass about it and not trying to actually find any facts on the matter, just go all off on "it didn't happen". The National Socialists explicitly stated in several memoranda and were recorded as saying they were killing Jews in KZs. Einsatzgruppen were sent out to kill Jews. The Nazis hated Jews. Everybody had their "good Jew," but the vast amount of Jews in Nazi occupied Europe were singled out to be killed because the Nazis hated Jews. Whether or not Hitler outright stated "kill all the Jews" it doesn't matter. The Nazis who had power and were the ones with the monopoly of force wanted to please Hitler, so they killed Jews.
The Roma didn't get any of the holocaust money for the same reason American Blacks will never get "reperations": everybody hates them. Gypsies are the niggers of Europe.
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Ah, so you're annoyed that I'm not a denier and it would be easier for you if I were. Sorry mate, I'm guided by my conscience.
Maybe if I'm asking questions that require you to reconsider positions, it's not an evil plot, but your own assumed positions (and assumed perception of me) that is at fault. It's clear that you want things in an easily packaged binary, but history is complex by nature.
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You're not a denier, you just act like one.
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What does it say about holocaust denial where people that persue truth end up acting in way hard to distinguish from deniers?
The fact that these two categories are collapsed into one should be very telling about how much suppression of facts is going on.