The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
When I was in the Army, I had a boss, who after a few drinks would go from regular Wehraboo going on about how the waffen SS was the greatest fighting force in history, to how Hitler went from being a Corporal in the Army to Leader of Germany in the space of 15 years, and that we should all draw inspiration from this.

He was a big guy, and could be quite scary, but one night in the battery bar, a guy told him that Otto Frank (Anne Frank's father) had been in the German artillery in World War I, had spent most of his time on the front lines. Then a grateful German nation had murdered his whole family.

He went nuts at first (he was a genuinely scary guy) but in his own way he was fairly thoughtful , and in the space of an hour seemed to have some sort of epiphany,(we were based in Germany and this was something that often came up) and a few weeks later he was holding court in the bar about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.

I just wanted to add that story to the thread.
The Waffen SS were considered to be legendarily shitty at what they were supposed to do (fighting battles) which is part of why they were guarding the "camps". You know, that totally didn't exist, but if they did exist, they were maximum fun, with roller coasters, masturbation machines, and swimming pools.
 
You're referring to Erhard Milch the guy who was in charge of Luftwaffe aircraft production before the outbreak of the war.
Partly. I'm also personally acquainted with several people who had half-Jewish relatives who served as Luftwaffe pilots to the end of the war, but that's pretty much all that I can say without powerleveling.
 
A lot of people like to argue the semantics, though I don't really see the necessity to be quite honest.

For those who are ardent deniers they use the same small source of contradictions or now debunked literature like the holocoster or the milking machines, while ignoring the huge mountains of evidence that point to the fact that concentration camps were in full swing and they were used to brutalize and kill European Jews as well as Communists, Soviets, Gypsy, Jehovah Witnesses, Political dissidents, Freemasons, Spanish Anarchist and hardened criminals.

The amount of eyewitness accounts from Jewish and non-Jewish sources both inside the camp complexes and those who served them in a local capacity when they were in operation and the work that the German state put into maintaining them at the expense of them being able to use those resources elsewhere during the war is also very telling. As well as the obsession of the Reich of rounding Jews from conquered lands and bringing them into German controlled occupied territory and not away from it.

Whether or not the number is the actual six million that is estimated or it's closer to 5 & 1/2 million is also inconsequential. (Records fell off during the end of the war, though the Germans made good use of their IBM provided counting machines to process Jews in the concentration camps.) The fact remains that the German state under the Nazi party engaged in the genocide of a people that it had considered an enemy of Europe and Germany in particular in compliance with their political doctrine. First by the use of Einsatzgruppe, (which were disbanded eventually, as Heinrich Himmler saw the mental stress caused to the shooters as inhumane.) and then by the employment of gas in varying degrees of delivery.

We also have the inventory of different interviews that had taken place in the lead up to the Nuremburg trials and afterwards from senior officials within the Nazi party including the SS who free of any further litigation openly would talk about the camps and how things were planned and structured.

The fact that the camps are constantly used in the modern vernacular as an anecdotal evidence of this or that, usually by deranged leftists who are woefully ignorant when they want to draw an allusion to a modern case of incarceration, is wrong. Especially to the memory of the people who were brutalized and suffered in those camps.

At the same time, those who would defend the fact that it didn't happen are also highly questionable in their motives.
 
Whether or not the number is the actual six million that is estimated or it's closer to 5 & 1/2 million is also inconsequential.
Nobody has yet answered my earlier question. Perhaps you will. I'll amend it a little for context of what you just posted.

At what number would it be consequential? Would the difference between 6 million or 100.000 be consequential? Between 6 million and 1 million?

At what degree does accuracy of estimates begin to matter? I am not looking for a precise figure to nitpick, I'm trying to figure out what is an acceptable margin of error to ignore and at what point we need to look closer.
 
Nobody has yet answered my earlier question. Perhaps you will. I'll amend it a little for context of what you just posted.

At what number would it be consequential? Would the difference between 6 million or 100.000 be consequential? Between 6 million and 1 million?

At what degree does accuracy of estimates begin to matter? I am not looking for a precise figure to nitpick, I'm trying to figure out what is an acceptable margin of error to ignore and at what point we need to look closer.

That's a good question. Obviously when something is a gross over estimation of numbers then it would be unacceptable.

Empirically 6 million is known not to be a absolute number, which is why most estimates are given between 5 & 6 million. Five on a more conservative scale allowing for no breakdowns in record keeping, six for allowing for some margins of error and also the fact that meticulous record keeping broke down near the end of the war.

Another point to be made is that the association of the word holocaust and the total number is mistakenly attributed to just the concentration camp processes. The numbers in total are attributed not just to the systems of extermination within the camp, but also reflect the numbers of those killed, starved, displaced, incarcerated or liquidated in total throughout the course of the war.

And of course you have Stalin's old proverb of tragedies and statistics, even if the number was lower than the estimated 6 million by a margin of 4 million, it still would no excuse to the intent and express purpose of the camps or the Nazi party. The fact would still remain that the Nazi government engaged in genocidal practices targeted specifically at what it considered were the enemies of the state. European Jews when not accounting for Soviet deaths in the holocaust, just make up the largest majority.
 
We also have the inventory of different interviews that had taken place in the lead up to the Nuremburg trials
Even at the time, the Nuremberg affair was criticized as a farcical parody of proper legal proceedings, with U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice Harlan Stone going so far as to say that the entire endeavor was little more than a "high-grade lynching party," an embarrassment to the legacy of common law which the prosecutors sought to cloak themselves with.

For a personal perspective, WWII was one of the dominant themes of my childhood. I grew up reading WWII books, watching WWII movies, playing with WWII-themed toys and video games, and initially, I completely bought into the "Great Crusade" narrative as articulated by Eisenhower in his speech to the troops prior to the commencement of Operation Overlord. As I've gotten older, and better-informed about the events of the war and historical background leading up to it, however, I've begun to find it increasingly difficult to think of any of the major belligerents as occupying a moral high ground, or even being motivated at the state level by genuinely altruistic regard for other nations. Rather, it seems more accurate to say that the primary participants were simply pursuing their geostrategic self-interests as they saw them, and were each willing to inflict and/or disregard massive amounts of civilian death to get what they wanted.

It's not like there weren't enough atrocities to go around, after all. The Americans and British reduced entire, heavily-populated metrapoli to ash, the French would regularly allow their Muslim auxiliaries to rape civilians (hell, even the Canadians were known to kill POWs out of hand) and the Soviets slaughtered far more people than the Nazis ever could or even wanted to.

And nobody cares, nor are they generally asked to, and to some extent, that's probably as it should be. Why encourage people to keep bearing grudges for events that happened generations ago, after all? And so I grow increasingly skeptical of the holocaust narrative and its place in orthodox WWII histories. To this day, we're fed this idea of a peerless atrocity unprecedented in the annals of man's inhumanity to man, but that trips over the rather awkward fact (among many others) that the Soviets got there first and did it better. And that being so, why did the western allies make common cause with the greater evil against the lesser? Why is it that journalists then and now ran and continue to run interference for Communism but reflexively damn National Socialism? Why am I asked to believe that the Nazis were uniquely the embodiment of evil, when the Soviets were demonstrably worse in virtually every regard? It doesn't make any sense.
 
Even at the time, the Nuremberg affair was criticized as a farcical parody of proper legal proceedings, with U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice Harlan Stone going so far as to say that the entire endeavor was little more than a "high-grade lynching party," an embarrassment to the legacy of common law which the prosecutors sought to cloak themselves with.

For a personal perspective, WWII was one of the dominant themes of my childhood. I grew up reading WWII books, watching WWII movies, playing with WWII-themed toys and video games, and initially, I completely bought into the "Great Crusade" narrative as articulated by Eisenhower in his speech to the troops prior to the commencement of Operation Overlord. As I've gotten older, and better-informed about the events of the war and historical background leading up to it, however, I've begun to find it increasingly difficult to think of any of the major belligerents as occupying a moral high ground, or even being motivated at the state level by genuinely altruistic regard for other nations. Rather, it seems more accurate to say that the primary participants were simply pursuing their geostrategic self-interests as they saw them, and were each willing to inflict and/or disregard massive amounts of civilian death to get what they wanted.

It's not like there weren't enough atrocities to go around, after all. The Americans and British reduced entire, heavily-populated metrapoli to ash, the French would regularly allow their Muslim auxiliaries to rape civilians (hell, even the Canadians were known to kill POWs out of hand) and the Soviets slaughtered far more people than the Nazis ever could or even wanted to.

And nobody cares, nor are they generally asked to, and to some extent, that's probably as it should be. Why encourage people to keep bearing grudges for events that happened generations ago, after all? And so I grow increasingly skeptical of the holocaust narrative and its place in orthodox WWII histories. To this day, we're fed this idea of a peerless atrocity unprecedented in the annals of man's inhumanity to man, but that trips over the rather awkward fact (among many others) that the Soviets got there first and did it better. And that being so, why did the western allies make common cause with the greater evil against the lesser? Why is it that journalists then and now ran and continue to run interference for Communism but reflexively damn National Socialism? Why am I asked to believe that the Nazis were uniquely the embodiment of evil, when the Soviets were demonstrably worse in virtually every regard? It doesn't make any sense.

Good on you for being open minded enough to realize that behind any historical event there is usually an admixture of different motivations. Unfortunately Hollywood which sadly seems to be the basis for the majority of peoples education about the war beyond the very stayed and safe opinions. That said history is written by the victor and as such tends to reflect more positively upon events during the period.

With that said the Nuremberg trials were sensationalized to the extent that the Allied forces had already started laying the ground work for de-nazification and with the majority of the upper echelons of the party dead, wanted to put on what essentially were show trials for the sake of both their own media consumers at home and the Russians as well who would have resorted to their own systems of prosecution that had been carried out in the East with captured Germans and German allies, essentially a kangaroo court without the fan fair. Dare I say there was also some vague optimism at least that having come through the war with the Soviet Union on side, there would be the opportunity to reform it from their shared experience, something which quickly disappeared as the Soviets settled in to occupation and started the moves towards the cold war. (Something Patton had rightly warned them about was to act quickly, by the time the adversarial nature of the two great superpowers came to a fighting point, both had nuclear weapons and removed any chances of the Russians being pushed back.)

So there is part of the reason why the Soviet Union wasn't decried during or for a short period after the post war period. No administration was blind to the dangers of the Soviet Union and in some cases the expansion of the Soviet Union was directly a result of the American and British funding that had gone into it, to prop it up during the German invasions. The Germans tend to get the worst of the press from the period, because they were the first totalitarian power to break the international peace. Churchill had wanted war with the Soviet Union over the invasion of Finland and was called off it because the renewed and more aggressive territorial ideals of the Nazi party were considered equal to if not more dangerous to European and world safety.

That said Hitler cast the die when he ordered the go ahead for Operation Barbarossa, because it instantly put the Soviets at odds with Germany. The western leadership in Britain and America were under no illusions that the war single handed against Germany would have to be fought by relinquishing control over German outposts in the colonial world and then an invasion of Europe. By having the seemingly limitless manpower of the Soviets if not on side at least headed in the right direction, it made the job of opening up a western front of attack much easier. The intention was likely to not rely on the Soviets to be able to mount the same level of restructuring and mass production/military victories that it did, merely to tie up the better parts of the German army in fighting in the east. By the time that the dust settled in WW2 the Soviets had became a much more capable enemy, than they had been before the war.

As to the fact that their is this strange fetishism on Nazism alone when the crimes of communism far out weigh it. I can only hazard the guess that since most of the institutions in the west were under infiltration from left leaning professors to outright ardent communist, and these are the same people who took over large swathes of media production including Hollywoods Jews, it's not really a wonder that there has always been this soft treatment of international communism in many circles, that shouldn't be there considering how deadly and destructive it was. If anything Patton was right, they hadn't finished the job and they should have.

As for the holocaust, it is over prescribed in terms of our modern society and the way it's slanted for the public. We do no see subjects like the Killing Fields or the Holodomor get covered extensively in the same way, but again I think that's an issue with media studios and what they are willing to produce.

Another point about the seeming obsession with the Reich over the Soviets is this, The Germans were defeated and brought to bare by crushing military might. This is why they are still popular subjects of historical analysis. The Soviets, decayed and withered over time becoming a shadow of it's former power to essentially fall to a near bloodless coup and enforced reformation.

Anyways that's just my rumination on the subject.

I thought this thread was about Cannibal Holocaust. Fuck.

A great film!
 
The Waffen SS were considered to be legendarily shitty at what they were supposed to do (fighting battles) which is part of why they were guarding the "camps". You know, that totally didn't exist, but if they did exist, they were maximum fun, with roller coasters, masturbation machines, and swimming pools.

Don't be absurd

Everyone knows that didn't happen until vietnam

 
Good on you for being open minded enough to realize that behind any historical event there is usually an admixture of different motivations. Unfortunately Hollywood which sadly seems to be the basis for the majority of peoples education about the war beyond the very stayed and safe opinions.
That's somewhat misleading. The depiction of wartime Germany and Germans in mainstream American cinema has not been a uniformic and unvaried continuum from the 1940s to the present. Even during the height of the war itself, when the enemy were not simply faceless extras opposing our heroes from across a hedgerow, there was usually some effort taken to distinguish between "Nazis" and ordinary German soldiers (in contrast with the Japanese, who were generally subject to a much more visceral hatred).

That said history is written by the victor and as such tends to reflect more positively upon events during the period.
It would be more accurate to say that history is written by historians, and as such, there's always going to be an incentive for scholars to upset the historical apple cart, so to speak. To earn their own place in history radically changing the popular perception of noteworthy events, and by all indications, the WWII Nazi death-camp narrative would appear to be a particularly inviting topic to challenge the accepted accounts, but extensive legal minefields around the topic ensure that all but the most courageous or reckless of scholars will steer clear of the topic, and those who press on regardless will have their professional and personal reputations systematically destroyed, at the very least.

With that said the Nuremberg trials were sensationalized to the extent that the Allied forces had already started laying the ground work for de-nazification and with the majority of the upper echelons of the party dead, wanted to put on what essentially were show trials for the sake of both their own media consumers at home and the Russians as well who would have resorted to their own systems of prosecution that had been carried out in the East with captured Germans and German allies, essentially a kangaroo court without the fan fair.
Which goes back to the essentially two-faced and hypocritical nature of the tribunal itself. While the surviving members of the German government were being fast-tracked to the hangman's noose for "deportation and other inhumane acts committed against any civilian population" among other things, the victorious Allied forces were forcibly removing approximately 14 million ethnic Germans from their homes in Central Europe and shipping them in cattle cars to Germany (a process that would kill an estimated 500,000 of them), inspiring outrage and disgust from observers such as George Orwell and Bertrand Russell, with the latter cuttingly demanding to know if "mass deportations [are] crimes when committed by our enemies during war and justifiable measures of social adjustment when carried out by our allies in time of peace?"

No administration was blind to the dangers of the Soviet Union and in some cases the expansion of the Soviet Union was directly a result of the American and British funding that had gone into it, to prop it up during the German invasions.
If the Roosevelt administration was not blind to the threat posed by the Soviet Union, then it must have been complicit in the latter's aims and ambitions, considering the extent to which the upper echelons of the U.S. federal government were found to be stocked with Communists and Communist sympathizers after the war. 🤔

The Germans tend to get the worst of the press from the period, because they were the first totalitarian power to break the international peace.
Perhaps more accurately, they were seemingly the fulfillment of the centuries-old English paranoia about another European power rising to the status of continental hegemon and thus being able to challenge the British Empire's (then already-declining) global supremacy. English anti-German propaganda inspired by fears of so being eclipsed goes back into the 19th century, though to the extent that Great Britain was successful in attempting to keep Germany down, it was a Pyrrhic victory, as the English ended up sacrificing their empire and effectively crippling themselves to ultimately merely delay Germany's rise to the status of Europe's dominant (economic if not military) force.

Churchill had wanted war with the Soviet Union over the invasion of Finland and was called off it because the renewed and more aggressive territorial ideals of the Nazi party were considered equal to if not more dangerous to European and world safety.
Considered more dangerous by whom, exactly? The Soviet Union's ideology was explicitly premised upon the idea of world-wide Marxist revolution, and there had been numerous such uprisings attempted throughout Europe in the inter-war period, including one in Germany itself which was only put down at the last moment by German WWI veterans grouping up with their old wartime squadmates in ad-hoc "Freikorps" militias to reinstate order.

That said Hitler cast the die when he ordered the go ahead for Operation Barbarossa, because it instantly put the Soviets at odds with Germany. The western leadership in Britain and America were under no illusions that the war single handed against Germany would have to be fought by relinquishing control over German outposts in the colonial world and then an invasion of Europe. By having the seemingly limitless manpower of the Soviets if not on side at least headed in the right direction, it made the job of opening up a western front of attack much easier. The intention was likely to not rely on the Soviets to be able to mount the same level of restructuring and mass production/military victories that it did, merely to tie up the better parts of the German army in fighting in the east. By the time that the dust settled in WW2 the Soviets had became a much more capable enemy, than they had been before the war.
Again, why ally with the Commies? They had demonstrated no less belligerence and territorial ambition than the Nazis, and there was ample evidence that they had been carrying out mass killings for decades at this point, whereas the German concentration camp system was in its infancy and most of the then-inmates were ethnic Poles. Furthermore, German territorial ambitions were directed eastwards, away from France, Britain and so forth, whereas Soviet expansionism was a very westward-oriented affair.

As to the fact that their is this strange fetishism on Nazism alone when the crimes of communism far out weigh it. I can only hazard the guess that since most of the institutions in the west were under infiltration from left leaning professors to outright ardent communist, and these are the same people who took over large swathes of media production including Hollywoods Jews, it's not really a wonder that there has always been this soft treatment of international communism in many circles, that shouldn't be there considering how deadly and destructive it was.
There's something rather darkly comedic about the fact that the "Aryan" aesthetics promoted by Hitler's followers arouse such hysteria in Jews to this very day (to the point where making both romantic leads in a movie fair-haired and blue-eyed is seemingly evidence of "anudder shoah" waiting to happen), yet Russian Communism was no less artistically enamored of square-jawed-and-straw-headed sons of the soil, their icy blue eyes gazing sternly from amid sheaves of harvested wheat or atop tank turrets. Alexander Deinek's "Defense of Sevastopol" illustrates the point rather nicely, as the two most prominent figures in the foreground, the grenade-throwing Russian sailor and the (dead or dying) German soldier, could pass as twins caught on either side of some terrible, fratricidal family feud:

the_defense_of_sebastopol_1942-1024x517.jpg


They even have the same haircut.

As for the holocaust, it is over prescribed in terms of our modern society and the way it's slanted for the public. We do no see subjects like the Killing Fields or the Holodomor get covered extensively in the same way, but again I think that's an issue with media studios and what they are willing to produce.
There's a certain amount of black humor to be had in comparing and contrasting the nearly-ironclad estimates of Jewish deaths in the concentration camps with the number of "kulak" deaths resulting from Stalin's forced collectivization policies, and observing how some scholars try to nickel-and-dime the latter down, splitting hairs over exact cause of death and so forth, in an apparent attempt to ensure that the number does not equal or exceed the sacred Six Million.

Another point about the seeming obsession with the Reich over the Soviets is this, The Germans were defeated and brought to bare by crushing military might. This is why they are still popular subjects of historical analysis. The Soviets, decayed and withered over time becoming a shadow of it's former power to essentially fall to a near bloodless coup and enforced reformation.
I seem to recall that the sudden fall of the Soviet Union came as a surprise to almost everyone in the west, to the point of former Director of Central Intelligence Stansfield Turner complaining, in retrospect, that he had "never heard a suggestion from the CIA, or the intelligence arms of the departments of Defense or State, that numerous Soviets recognized a growing, systemic economic problem," and decrying "the enormity of this failure to forecast the magnitude of the Soviet crisis." It seems as though throughout the Soviet period, the USSR was portrayed by both sympathizers and opposition in the west as strong, stable and pretty much inevitable, as far as the question of whether or not it would still exist at the end of the 20th century or thereabouts. Despite this shred of common ground, negative portrayals of the Soviets in western media tended to be derided as right-wing fantasies (Red Dawn was particularly hated in this regard) with the exception of the "Red Scare" era of 1947-1957, which just so happened to chronologically coincide with the low-key but widespread purge of Jews from positions of authority in the Soviet Union.

Anyways that's just my rumination on the subject.
Thanks for your time. 👍
 
Last edited:
It's not like there weren't enough atrocities to go around, after all. The Americans and British reduced entire, heavily-populated metrapoli to ash, the French would regularly allow their Muslim auxiliaries to rape civilians (hell, even the Canadians were known to kill POWs out of hand) and the Soviets slaughtered far more people than the Nazis ever could or even wanted to.
I don't understand what your point here is besides whataboutism
 
Whataboutism is inherently a deflection tactic that makes your argument look weaker by making it seem like you're trying to divert criticism instead of address it
So some may say. Others argue that the accusation of "whataboutism" is itself merely a variant of the tu qoque fallacy.
 
It's like saying it's retarded for Trump to say untrue things during his election in a way to keep his name in the news that led to him being elected. Untrue things because they were exaggerated, but still exposed the media bias simultaneously.

It's not retarded if it works. The holocaust industry works. It works politically. It works financially. It works at keeping enforcing unity amongst jews (because we're basicly brainwashed that the average gentile will murder us/rat us out if given the opportunity). Is it retarded when someone does something that shouldn't work, but works perfectly?
Apologies for the (very) late response:
I don't have an argument against the practical use of the holocaust as a sort of social leverage. It's literally the same tactic niggers use when they say slavery is reason to enact laws preferential to black people.
Is it effective? Sometimes. Is it logical? Absolutely not.
Now, anyone who's read Edward Bernays (or really anyone who's dealt with any actual human being) knows that the human psyche is a fickle thing and I can't argue against the notion that most people can be swayed by illogical arguments. I'm sure that applies to me (and you) as well.

When I made that post, I was speaking from a purely logical standpoint. I know people aren't generally logical unless required to be so. But would you deny that the argument I provided essentially vindicates (most) modern Nazis of any holocaust-related accusations whether accurate or not?
 
So some may say. Others argue that the accusation of "whataboutism" is itself merely a variant of the tu qoque fallacy.
The last thing this thread needs is to descend into the fallacy fallacy endless accusation cycle that line of thought leads to so let's amicably agree to disagree
 
When I made that post, I was speaking from a purely logical standpoint. I know people aren't generally logical unless required to be so. But would you deny that the argument I provided essentially vindicates (most) modern Nazis of any holocaust-related accusations whether accurate or not?

I think it's pretty autistic to approach people as purely logical, but I'll turn on my autism to play.

1. The accusation and responsibility for holocaust isn't laid at the feet of modern nazi's in the first place. Even Poland (a conquered nation at that point) and modern dutch national railway are held responsible. In general it seems that much like slavery in the US, white people are held responsible. And thus the ethnic targeting should raise questions about the motives of those using it to drain funds / political will.

If you have doubt about my premise here, watch the documentary "defamation" on youtube or bitchute.

2. You say that modern nazi's wouldn't want a holocaust. The one or two that I've met in person would probably be of the position that "the holocaust didn't happen but it should've", being much of the mind that a woman who ruins a mans life by false rape accusations deserves being raped for it. They probably see it as a kind of karmic justice. And my guess is that they would happily work in such a modern murder camp.

3. I don't think that modern nazi's or communists are responsible for what happened in the past, but I think fencing with what happened when they got in power is a completely legitimate fencing tool. What else are you going to use to discuss possible results than what happened in the past?

4. In general this whole part of the discussion is a moot point, because everybody gets called a nazi these days, including Null. This kinda ties back to point 1.

I don't understand what your point here is besides whataboutism
We are asked to accept that Germany at the time was uniquely and almost irredeemably and incomprehensibly evil. There are the recordings of the sentimental responses to seeing camps, but there are no such recordings of when the allies bombed civilian centres as in Dresden, about the US infecting their own citizens with Siphilus for science at the home front. When other countries were doing similar kind of research as Germany was doing, it becomes less a unique evil and more a "business as usual" for empires. You're right that it doesn't rehabilitate (nazi) germany, but it does show that the supposed good forces that overcame evil forces is a fairy tale and that might mean that not everything those good forces said is 100% truthful. It's almost like they were human organisations with human motives, good and bad.

Shedding some light on the other parties atrocities seems like fair game in viewing the whole thing.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You say that modern nazi's wouldn't want a holocaust. The one or two that I've met in person would probably be of the position that "the holocaust didn't happen but it should've", being much of the mind that a woman who ruins a mans life by false rape accusations deserves being raped for it. They probably see it as a kind of karmic justice. And my guess is that they would happily work in such a modern murder camp.
Perhaps, but then again, talk is cheap. For most people, it's one thing to fantasize about committing some violent act of retaliation against someone whom they perceive has wronged them, and quite another to actually act it out.

We are asked to accept that Germany at the time was uniquely and almost irredeemably and incomprehensibly evil. There are the recordings of the sentimental responses to seeing camps, but there are no such recordings of when the allies bombed civilian centres as in Dresden, about the US infecting their own citizens with Siphilus for science at the home front. When other countries were doing similar kind of research as Germany was doing, it becomes less a unique evil and more a "business as usual" for empires. You're right that it doesn't rehabilitate (nazi) germany, but it does show that the supposed good forces that overcame evil forces is a fairy tale and that might mean that not everything those good forces said is 100% truthful.
Especially when the "good forces" had ample incentive to focus attention on the wrongdoing of their enemies- and away from themselves, as USAAF General Curtis LeMay apparently acknowledged, noting that if the Allies had lost instead of the Axis, they would themselves “all have been prosecuted as war criminals.” Certainly, there's something very darkly ironic about Britain, the United States and Russia standing in judgment over Germany for attempting to build an empire, displacing native populations from their homes to create living-space for settlers, and locking up undesirables in concentration camps.

It's almost like they were human organisations with human motives, good and bad.
Well, you can't have people thinking that when you want to A: push the "punch a Nazi" meme; and B: continually expand the definition of "Nazi" to incorporate as broad an array of potential targets as possible.

Hell, if not for the primacy of Holocaust narrative, would Current Year western popular culture even look back on WWII with any positivity? The "Greatest Generation" were, after all, the same people who gladly embraced/implemented the rigorous normalcy of the much-despised 1950s, and by modern Cancel Culture/Social Justice Warrior standards would be seen as no better than Nazis themselves (possibly worse in some respects, since the Nazis didn't have the same sort of open hostility to blacks that American culture did).

Shedding some light on the other parties atrocities seems like fair game in viewing the whole thing.
Indeed. Viewed from a broader historical perspective, this ongoing presentation of the Holocaust as the stand-out atrocity of all time begins to look rather questionable and one-sided, as though people are only still being beaten over the head with it because it cynically serves certain material ends, like enriching the state of Israel, reinforcing Jewish ethnic solidarity or providing a mythopoeic basis/justification for American global hegemony (not that I'm much exercised by the latter; for all their faults, we could probably do a lot worse than the United States as the world's top dog)
 
Again, why ally with the Commies?
Quite simple: Because the purpose of World War 2 was to remove Germany as an active geopolitcal factor that could upset the designs of the Anglosphere.
There is also the whole thing where even by 1930 large parts of the establishment of said Anglosphere was filled top to bottom with commie sympathizing assholes in love with progressive attempts to reorder society.
 
Quite simple: Because the purpose of World War 2 was to remove Germany as an active geopolitcal factor that could upset the designs of the Anglosphere.
There is also the whole thing where even by 1930 large parts of the establishment of said Anglosphere was filled top to bottom with commie sympathizing assholes in love with progressive attempts to reorder society.
Right, the English had been freaked out by Germany ever since the Franco-Prussian War, the German victory in which had kicked off a long wave of sensationalist anti-German propaganda starting with the novel The Battle of Dorking in 1871.
 
Back
Top Bottom