The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

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All these people are still alive and visibly moving, except for the guy fully clothed at the soldier's feet.


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In the spring of 1942, the Gebietskommissar in Zdołbunów announced that a ghetto would be established in Mizocz. All Jews from Mizocz and the surrounding villages were ordered to move into the ghetto, but the actual transfer was probably not completed until June.5 The precise number of Jews in the ghetto is not known, but the number probably exceeded 2,500, with some sources putting it as high as 3,500. The ghetto was located in the old part of town called “miasto” (the town). It bordered on the Market Square on one side and the Stubła River on the other. It remained an open ghetto and was not surrounded by a wall or other physical barriers and was not closely guarded. People were able to move in and out rather freely, conduct business, buy food, and trade belongings. There was no starvation in the Mizocz ghetto. According to Asher Gilberg, the area of the ghetto was actually enlarged after its initial establishment.6

From the very beginning, Jews had to perform forced labor. The work included washing wounded soldiers’ laundry, snow removal, farmwork, and construction work in nearby Zdołbunów for the German fi rm Josef Jung from Solingen.

Despite the public hanging of Zeyde Gelman for illegal slaughtering, and several arrests, the German administration of Mizocz was relatively benign.7 The Germans promised members of the Judenrat and others who worked for them that their lives were safe because they were needed. Despite the slaughters that were taking place in surrounding areas, the Jews of Mizocz largely believed the Germans.

Early in the morning of October 13, 1942, the ghetto was cordoned off and surrounded by a combined force of the SD from Równe, German Gendarmerie, and armed Ukrainian Schutzmänner. Everyone was herded to the “Platz” in the market square with the assistance of large dogs. Helen Segall recalls that “the crowd of people moved as one huge body as they were being chased to the market square by Ukrainian Schutzmänner, and that the collective scream of the victims sounded inhuman, deafening, and unbearable.” She also remembers that as she and her Aunt Natalie ran back to the house where they had been staying, to the safety of a hiding place located between the walls of two buildings, she saw a man in brown trousers, a trench coat, and a fedora hat pouring gasoline from a large rectangular can onto the houses as he ran in the opposite direction. Segall further recalls that later as smoke began to penetrate their hiding place, they had to leave it. They discovered that the whole town was a burning inferno. Surrounded by burning buildings, together with others, they ran along the widest street downhill towards the river. They were fl anked on both sides by walls of raging hot flames.8

Late the same afternoon, people herded to the Platz were or ga nized into a column and marched under guard to the end of town where, on a knoll opposite the sugar factory, a huge 2- meter- deep (6.6- feet- deep) trench dug for the neighboring brick factory had been prepared, awaiting its victims. As in other Volhynian towns, people had to undress and walk in small groups into the trench and lie facedown, where they were shot by an SS man helped by a Ukrainian Schutzmann.9 The slaughter lasted long into the night and continued the next day as people trying to escape were caught and brought there. Thus, after two days, October 13 and 14, 1942, the Jewish community of Mizocz ceased to exist.

During the summer and fall of 1942, there seems to have been the beginning of a planned re sis tance movement in Mizocz, when a number of young people attempted to buy weapons in Zdołbunów, but they did not succeed. Thus, the major signs of re sis tance were the huge fi re set by ghetto residents and a brief struggle with blunt weapons while the ghetto was in the pro cess of being liquidated. Spector and others describe the Mizocz fi re as an act of re sis tance intended to create panic and confusion, to make it possible for a large number of people to escape. Segall writes that “at the time I resented the fi re which forced us from the seeming safety of our hiding place. I believed that the fi re was set to destroy all material goods and possessions so that they would not fall into German and Ukrainian hands.” Actually, there is little doubt that the fi re did cause panic and commotion and indeed helped a large number of people escape, although many were later caught and shot. The next day (October 14, 1942) dead bodies were strewn on the banks of the river and on both sides of the road leading from Mizocz. One of the side tragedies caused by the fi re was that about 200 people died in the fl ames, most probably caught in their hiding places.

The Soviet army liberated Mizocz in February 1944. Very few Jews had survived. Those who survived had hidden in the forests, joined the partisans, or were concealed by their Polish, Czech, and Ukrainian friends. In 1963– 1964 a series of trials of the German Gendarmerie offi cials were held in Nürnberg- Fürth. Joseph Paur and Wilhelm Wacker were tried and convicted for their role in the ghetto liquidations in Zdołbunów, Mizocz, and Ostróg. Paur received a sevenyear prison sentence, and Wacker was sentenced for three years.10

Thus, the Jewish community of Mizocz, which had been there for 300 years, was exterminated during those two days in October 1942. After the old town and its ghetto were reduced to ashes, Mizocz lost its “town status.” It is now listed as “a settlement with urban characteristics.”

SOURCES Relevant publications regarding the Mizocz ghetto include the following: Asher ben- Oni, ed., Mizocz: Sefer zikaron (Tel Aviv: Irgun yots’e Mizots’ be- Yisrael, 1961); Ray Brandon and Wendy Lower, eds., The Shoah in Ukraine: History, Testimony, Memorialization (Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 2008); Justiz und NS- Verbrechen, vol. 19 (Amsterdam: Amsterdam University Press, 1979), Lfd. Nr. 553, pp. 319– 361; Shmuel Spector and Geoffrey Wigoder, eds., The Encyclopedia of Jewish Life before and during the Holocaust (Jerusalem: Yad Vashem; New York: New York University Press, 2001), p. 1003; and A. Kruglov, Katastrofa ukrainskogo evreistva 1941– 1944 gg.: Entsiklopedicheskii spravochnik (Kharkov: “Karavella,” 2001), p. 209. Relevant documentation on the fate of the Jews of Mizocz during the Holocaust can be found in the following archives: AYIH (301/1795); BA- L (B 162/1585- 1601, 4691, 14154); DARO; GARF (7021- 71- 59); USHMM; and VHF (e.g., # 7722, 46341). In addition, reference has been made to the author’s own unpublished manuscript, Helen Segall, “When the Lilacs Bloom: A Memoir.”


NOTES 1. Yehuda Bronshteyn, “The Judenrat in Mizocz,” in ben- Oni, Mizocz, pp. 90– 94. 2. Nachum Kopit, “In the Ghetto, Forced Labor, and in the Forests,” in ibid., pp. 33– 53. 3. Bronshteyn, “The Judenrat in Mizocz,” pp. 90– 94. 4. Asher Gilberg, “The Life and Death of Mizocz,” in ben- Oni, Mizocz, pp. 5– 28. 5. JuNS- V, vol. 19, Lfd. Nr. 553, p. 328. 6. Gilberg, “The Life and Death,” pp. 5– 28. Bronshteyn, “The Judenrat in Mizocz,” pp. 90– 94, gives the fi gure of 3,500. 7. Gilberg, “The Life and Death,” pp. 5– 28; JuNS- V, vol. 19, Lfd. Nr. 553, p. 329. 8. Segall, “When the Lilacs Bloom.” 9. The document compiled by the ChGK (GARF, 7021- 71- 59) erroneously states that “the police consisted of Germans and Hungarians.” The interrogation of Vinogradski and the entry in the Diary of a Young Man located in Rivne Archive (DARO) confi rm that the Schutzmänner were Ukrainians. 10. JuNS- V, vol. 19, Lfd. Nr. 553, pp. 323– 334.
 
So what? There are some burned human remains, this proves what exactly? Did they perform any forensic analysis to find the cause of death? Evidence that these people died from being gassed, maybe? Anything at all to distinguish this from a mass burn site/grave for victims of typhus, which was common in the period? No?

These studies, and I use the term loosely, prove nothing except that some bodies were burned together at some point.
Find me a mass burn site of this size? I don't think you can, these sites are singular. Look at the volume of the pits and amount of cremains judged to be in them, eg for grave 4 "the volume of the crematory part is of about 250m3". Kola lists 30 or 40 pits and almost all of them are huge and contain cremains.

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Find me a mass burn site of this size?
The burden of proof is on you, fatboy. It doesn't matter how small or large these pits may be, or the actual volume of human cremains (since they were mixed with sand), they don't prove anything except that some bodies were burned and dumped in a mass grave. Were they typhus victims? Starved because supply lines were bombed? Bled to death after botched circumcisions? It is a mystery.
 
The burden of proof is on you, fatboy. It doesn't matter how small or large these pits may be, or the actual volume of human cremains (since they were mixed with sand), they don't prove anything except that some bodies were burned and dumped in a mass grave. Were they typhus victims? Starved because supply lines were bombed? Bled to death after botched circumcisions? It is a mystery.
Anything at all to distinguish this from a mass burn site/grave for victims of typhus, which was common in the period?
You're saying this kind of mass burn site was common, so that's your assertion. Otherwise I think the fact of Kola determining 20,000 cubic meters worth of graves speaks for itself.
 
From the very beginning, Jews had to perform forced labor. The work included washing wounded soldiers’ laundry, snow removal, farmwork, and construction work in nearby Zdołbunów for the German fi rm Josef Jung from Solingen.
They were forced to work so they burned down their own houses. Makes sense. Jews are allergic to honest hard labor.
Despite the public hanging of Zeyde Gelman for illegal slaughtering, and several arrests, the German administration of Mizocz was relatively benign.
Oops you accidently said the quiet part out loud yet again.
, she saw a man in brown trousers, a trench coat, and a fedora hat pouring gasoline from a large rectangular can onto the houses as he ran in the opposite direction.
So she saw a jew set fire to their homes, good story.
huge 2- meter- deep (6.6- feet- deep) trench dug for the neighboring brick factory had been prepared, awaiting its victims.
Not what the pictures show
people had to undress and walk in small groups into the trench and lie facedown, where they were shot by an SS man helped by a Ukrainian Schutzmann.
Not what the pictures show
Thus, after two days, October 13 and 14, 1942, the Jewish community of Mizocz ceased to exist.
Except for all the people who didn't die. Did we forget those or are we making stuff up again?
Thus, the major signs of re sis tance were the huge fi re set by ghetto residents and a brief struggle with blunt weapons while the ghetto was in the pro cess of being liquidated.
Damn those Nazis moving jews out of Ghettos, then the jews decide to attack them out of desperation stoked to flames by partisans/communists.
The Soviet army liberated Mizocz in February 1944. Very few Jews had survived. Those who survived had hidden in the forests, joined the partisans, or were concealed by their Polish, Czech, and Ukrainian friends.
Oops they did it again. They admit many people survived and scattered amongst the area.

You are a child who doesn't read what he posts, you are not only wrong you are actively harmful to what you post. You are the dumbest person to ever argue the holocaust. Maybe read things critically instead of just quoting stuff you think sounds like it pushes your agenda. Although I think you are too dumb to do that.
 
You people are in a Talmudic haze arguing about nothing. I previously stated that the Holocaust is not a single historical event but an ongoing psyop that we are in right now.

To strengthen my case, I have written an explanation of why the fake Jews conceived of the Shoah and platted this crown of thorns that we wear. Here is how the holocaust as it is understood is a hoax perpetrated by the children Esau in the effort to retake the birthright (Logos) sold to Israel by their father and destroy it.

Spoiler: the Nazis and the Sanhedrin are both Esau.

Genesis 25:29, And Jacob boiled pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint…

‎”Nazid”, נזיד is the Modern Hebrew word for pottage. It is spelled Nun Tsad Yad Dal. Here is what they mean individually according to Ancient Hebrew, and accompanied by their Phoenician equivalents: Son (Nun 𐤍), Lost (Tsad 𐤑) Create (Yad 𐤉) Door (Dal 𐤃).

The son lost his door to creativity. In the allegory of Jacob and Esau, the firstborn son traded his birthright, which is God’s spirit, to his younger brother for a bowl of pottage, which is the earth. To have the holy ghost or spirit is to have logic, which is the power to understand and create (John 1). In written Phoenician/Hebrew it is 𐤉, orally it is Yad 𐤉𐤃, and in written Modern Hebrew it is י.

Beneath the veil, the allegory of Jacob and Esau states that in his weariness Esau lusted for the world, traded his soul for it, and became mad with rage.

Removing the door from the word Nazid leaves us with Nazi, which means The son lost his creativity, or his mind; or, The rabid son. 🤔 Note that it also refers to the nose and is the root of “nasal”, and that the words Woden and wood are cognate and refer to madness. Mind that Modern Hebrew is completely symbolic, and its symbols are retained in its descendents like German and English. Wiktionary.com is a good source if you want to dig into the words with me.

Tsad 𐤑 (Lost) and Shin 𐤔 (Destroy) are related in that being lost comes before destruction. In Modern Hebrew, the word Nazi (Nun Tsad Yad) is changed to Nasi (Nun Shin Yad Alef—though Alef is silent), and used to designate the prince of the Sanhedrin; which is the tribune that the Jews opted for in lieu of the Holy Spirit when they had been subverted by the house of Esau. Amen, Esau’s descendants still seek to take back their patriarch’s birthright using witchcraft, or Shoah שואה (Destruction secured of God’s spirit) against Israel.

The Modern Hebrew spelling of Nasi נשיא means in Ancient Hebrew, The son destroys the work of God.

What do you think?

 

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You're saying this kind of mass burn site was common, so that's your assertion. Otherwise I think the fact of Kola determining 20,000 cubic meters worth of graves speaks for itself.
He didn't determine anything because he didn't study anything, you can repeat yourself forever and none of its true.
What do you think?
We think you are schizo retard
 
Find me a mass burn site of this size? I don't think you can, these sites are singular. Look at the volume of the pits and amount of cremains judged to be in them, eg for grave 4 "the volume of the crematory part is of about 250m3". Kola lists 30 or 40 pits and almost all of them are huge and contain cremains.

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You are still peddling AI sources? Some 80 years of research and scholarship on the subject and all you can point to is AI?

Implausible scenarios and false testimony cannot be bolstered by google AI. Fuzzy math doesn't help your cause either. A number of jews dying as casualties of war or from typhus does not amount to intentional genocide.

Meanwhile in Israel, the jewish race is currently trying to genocide another race of people right now. Almost like the jews were the problem in Europe all along...
 
You are still peddling AI sources? Some 80 years of research and scholarship on the subject and all you can point to is AI?
Hes referring go the Kola study where they took core samples at a small camp and said the whole thing was a giant mass grave, that satellite imagery shows was completely made up. He said he found evidence of mass graves in the core samples but never photographed them


Hey look they took photos of their dig, but not of what they found. Wonder why?

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Whoever is serious about understanding the Holocaust needs to understand a few things about the Jews from the scripture.

1) Jesus Christ rebuked them as fake Jews.
2) We are the body of Jesus Christ.
3) Whoever is loving and logical is a Jew.
4) The fake Jews killed Jesus; that is, love and logic.

We are not dealing with Jews, we are dealing with liars and hypocrites. I suspect most of you understand that, so you are making a mistake to believe that they are who they say they are to begin with. The fact that they are imposters according to scripture makes it obvious that the Holocaust as they say it happened is a lie.

More on Jews being imposters in this thread.

Do you have a different perspective, rabbis?
 
You're saying this kind of mass burn site was common, so that's your assertion.
No reversing the burden of proof. You have, at best, demonstrated that some human bodies were burned. So what? How does this prove anything? Did they perform any forensic analysis to find the cause of death? Evidence that these people died from being gassed, maybe? Anything at all to distinguish this from a mass burn site/grave for victims of a disease like typhus? No?
 
Anything at all to distinguish this from a mass burn site/grave for victims of a disease like typhus? No?
Yeah the size. You know that one grave Kola identified with 250 cubic meters of crematory contents. Assuming that was 20% human remains (50 cubic meters, Kola and others found that the human remains were mixed with sand), assuming 3 liters of cremains per body, that comes out to 333 x 50 or 16,000 bodies. And that was just one grave. So if you want to speculate that hundreds of thousands of typhus victims were cremated at Belzec (not gassed) sure, go ahead.
 
So if you want to speculate

I'm not speculating about shit. I'm still waiting for you to tell us the relevance of some potential cremains. You have asserted one (possible) fact, the presence of burned human remains. You have to connect that to something, dumbass. What are you connecting it to, and how?
 
Assuming that was 20% human remains

assuming 3 liters of cremains per body, that comes out to 333 x 50 or 16,000 bodies.

And that was just one grave. So if you want to speculate that hundreds of thousands of typhus victims were cremated at Belzec (not gassed) sure, go ahead.
Why are you assuming anything, I thought they did a scientific study to figure out exactly what was there? Look at you lying again along with your entire blog team getting completely owned by me every single day. Have you all considered suicide since you are worthless at best?
 
I'm not speculating about shit. I'm still waiting for you to tell us the relevance of some potential cremains. You have asserted one (possible) fact, the presence of burned human remains. You have to connect that to something, dumbass. What are you connecting it to, and how?
They found massive graves full of human cremains at the site of alleged death camps.
21,310 cubic meters of graves is equal to about 60,00 large bathtubs, I think you're having difficulty processing the size.

But you're right that this isn't direct evidence of gassing. It's evidence of mass body destruction and burial at the site of an alleged extermination center, but what was found fits entirely with the allegations. It doesn't fit with few thousand typhus victims cremated and buried (I don't think they would typically even be cremated, much less cremated and mixed with sand -- the mixed with sand part indicates an attempt to disguise the extent of the body destruction and make calculations difficult or impossible).
 
what was found fits entirely with the allegations
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the mixed with sand part indicates an attempt to disguise the extent of the body destruction and make calculations difficult or impossible).
Why are you assuming anything?
A good question.
 
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