The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Preacher ✝]

The only one who left engaging is Bonesjones and his arguments are not substantive, mostly of the baseless accusation variety. Boring for me at this point.

If you have a strong belief about something, like the Red Cross documents are devastating to the Holocaust case you should be able to articulate why, at least to yourself. If you can't do this you are probably believing for the wrong reasons. My reference to arguments made against the Red Cross stuff from another site was not meant to end the argument, but to start it. If they're going wrong, where? If you don't want to answer this, make your own case and I'll respond. But I can't respond to an argument that is totally unsubstantiated.

I edited my post to add more, though it might not be the kind of argument you're looking for.

I won't lie, I never read the red cross report. I just know it says about 271k, mostly to famine and disease as a result of crumbling German supply lines.

Aside from the argument I made about unadulterated kikery and alike, some other things I find suspect are the pre and post war population census numbers not adding up, the sheer prevalence of museums for the fucking thing, the fact that all the death camps were liberated by the commies and not us. The fact that the jews and the commies have very, very, close ties. The fact that the holocaust proponents downplaying or outright denying the holodomor committed against Christians by the Judeo-Communist regime even though it killed more people and did not occur in a war zone. The inconsistent number of survivors, the multiple documented cases of fraudulent survivors who admitted to lying. The fucking wooden doors. The fact that Zyklon B gassing is a horribly inefficient method for mass killing people. The logistics of successfully cremating that many bodies in that amount of time while also losing a war on two fronts. The news paper articles and headlines from jewsih owned media prior to the war where "Judea Declares War on Germany" and the 6million figure showing up over 10 years in advance. The horrors of the weimar republic, the degenerate art and media, the production and distribution of pornography and the spread of abusive usury. The vicious attacks on anyone daring to question it or try and investigate it more thoroughly. The abuse of law to make questioning it illegal.

Finally the fact that perpetuating the Holocaust in this day and age only serves as a political weapon for Israeli and International Jewish interests.

At this point it doesnt matter how real it was, they don't deserve to keep benefitting from it like that. Its disgusting.

 

[Bonesjones]

The only one who left engaging is Bonesjones and his arguments are not substantive, mostly of the baseless accusation variety. Boring for me at this point.

Yeah it's boring to argue with someone who dodges everything and pretends to answer stuff. I wonder who that resembles?

If you have a strong belief about something, like the Red Cross documents are devastating to the Holocaust case you should be able to articulate why, at least to yourself.

Coming from the guy who admits he has no arguments of his own only the regurgitation of other people.

If you can't do this you are probably believing for the wrong reasons.

You don't have any belief to argue against.

My reference to arguments made against the Red Cross stuff from another site was not meant to end the argument, but to start it.

That's not another site, it's your site. Why do you continue to deny it?

If they're going wrong, where? If you don't want to answer this, make your own case and I'll respond. But I can't respond to an argument that is totally unsubstantiated.

What's not unsubstantiated that it took to the late 70s to make comments about the holocaust?

 

[Chugger]

That's not another site, it's your site. Why do you continue to deny it?

What's your evidence that it's "my site"? This is insane. There's 4 main contributors, Hans, Nick, Roberto, and Sergey. I'd probably have to dox myself to show you that I'm not one of them.

I edited my post to add more, though it might not be the kind of argument you're looking for.

I agree with you that it has been politicized by Jews and non-Jews alike in ways that are totally unjustifiable (in Israel the most imo). What I don't believe is that this is relevant to the historical debate. For that you have to examine evidence. You seem like a decent person to talk to with your admission that you didn't look closely into the Red Cross stuff. Bonesjones would never concede the most minor point that might make him look weak.

You listed about 20 different issues you have, which is too much for me to go point by point. You should pick one, whatever you believe is most devastating to the Holocaust case, and I will show where you're making unfair assumptions. You just have to be willing to do some independent research, it's your call.

 

[Bonesjones]

What's your evidence that it's "my site"? This is insane. There's 4 main contributors, Hans, Nick, Roberto, and Sergey. I'd probably have to dox myself to show you that I'm not one of them.

Where is your open denial? Why do you continue to defend them passing forged documents to other groups? Why are they your primary resource? All of it points to you defending your own work.

What I don't believe is that this is relevant to the historical debate.

Lmao.

 

[Preacher ✝]

You should pick one, whatever you believe is most devastating to the Holocaust case

Honestly, all the little details and stuff aside. The most devastating thing is the politicization and abuse of law for censorship like making questioning or investigating illegal. We wouldnt have to debate little details like wooden doors or logistics if thorough, non-biased, investigations could be done and honest discussion had. As it is the whole sentiment is "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED DO NOT QUESTION IT OR WE WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE" and that's fucked up.

Truth does not fear scrutiny like that. There is no legitimate justification to make investigation or questioning illegal.

And again, at this point it really doesn't matter how real it is. 271k, 6mil, hell it could have been 6 billion. The way that it has been used as a political cudgel and criticism shield is outright disgusting. They no longer deserve to have it remember how they like. It only benefits them and their interests which are routinely in opposition to the overall good of humanity.

Also I'd just be generally interested in your take on the Holodomor committed by the Judeo-Communist regime.

 

[Chugger]

They no longer deserve to have it remember how they like.

You can make that argument sure, that history should be distorted to serve noble ends, but for me that's not really history but propaganda. I'm interested in history.

There is no legitimate justification to make investigation or questioning illegal.

I agree but this isn't a good reason to believe in a conspiracy. Soviet crimes are also illegal to deny in some places.

Also I'd just be generally interested in your take on the Holodomor committed by the Judeo-Communist regime.

It was a bad thing, I see disproportionate Jewish involvement in the leadership and decision making around it. I also see a lot of non-Jews involved. I see whites dying in the Ukraine but not anywhere else in large numbers. The famine could have been distributed evenly throughout the USSR, but the most food requisitions happened in the Ukraine. Why do you believe the Holodomor happened, what was the Jews motive?

 

[Preacher ✝]

Why do you believe the Holodomor happened, what was the Jews motive?

Killing white Christians. They hate us, the Talmud makes that clear. And with all those people dead the land they used to live on is free for the taking and any children that survived are free for the raping and satanic blood sacrifice rituals.

I agree but this isn't a good reason to believe in a conspiracy.

The conspiracy would either hold no water or be proven not a conspiracy if thorough non-biased investigations could be held. I find something objectionable to accepting an "official story" that I'm not allowed to question. It reeks of 1984 type shit. Does that sound more like history or propaganda to you?

You can make that argument sure, that history should be distorted to serve noble ends, but for me that's not really history but propaganda. I'm interested in history.

If a kid keeps hitting other kids with a toy, at what point do you take the toy away? What is your proposed solution for the political abuse that preaching the holocaust has allowed to go unchecked? How else would you suggest we reign this shit in and put these subversive little fucks back in their place?

 

[Chugger]

Killing white Christians. They hate us, the Talmud makes that clear. And with all those people dead the land they used to live on is free for the taking and any children that survived are free for the raping and satanic blood sacrifice rituals.

I haven't seen the evidence for these claims, or good reason to believe them. There are other reasons for the Holodomor, eg poor harvest and resistance to collectivization.

If a kid keeps hitting other kids with a toy, at what point do you take the toy away? What is your proposed solution for the political abuse that preaching the holocaust has allowed to go unchecked? How else would you suggest we reign this shit in and put these subversive little fucks back in their place?

I don't know, find direct evidence of extremely powerful Jews trying to hurt and kill white people. Calling them human animals, talking about enslaving them, kidnapping their children.

Something like this, from the #2 or #3 guy in Nazi Germany

https://ghdi.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=1513

One basic principle must be the absolute rule for the SS man: we must be honest, decent, loyal and comradely to members of our own blood and to nobody else. What happens to a Russian, to a Czech does not interest me in the slightest. What the nations can offer in the way of good blood of our type, we will take, if necessary by kidnapping their children and raising them here with us. Whether nations live in prosperity or starve to death* interests me only in so far as we need them as slaves for our Kultur; otherwise, it is of no interest to me. Whether 10,000 Russian females fall down from exhaustion while digging an anti-tank ditch interests me only in so far as the anti-tank ditch for Germany is finished. We shall never be rough and heartless when it is not necessary, that is clear. We Germans, who are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude towards animals, will also assume a decent attitude towards these human animals. But it is a crime against our own blood to worry about them and give them ideals, thus causing our sons and grandsons to have a more difficult time with them. When somebody comes to me and says, “I cannot dig the anti-tank ditch with women and children, it is inhuman, for it would kill them,” then I have to say, “You are a murderer of your own blood because if the anti-tank ditch is not dug, German soldiers will die, and they are sons of German mothers. They are our own blood.” That is what I want to instill into the SS and what I believe have instilled into them as one of the most sacred laws of the future. Our concern, our duty is our people and our blood. It is for them that we must provide and plan, work and fight, nothing else. We can be indifferent to everything else. I wish the SS to adopt this attitude to the problem of all foreign, non-Germanic peoples, especially Russians. All else is vain, fraud against our own nation and an obstacle to the early winning of the war.

The conspiracy would either hold no water or be proven not a conspiracy if thorough non-biased investigations could be held.

What investigations are you talking about? Be specific.

 

[Preacher ✝]

I haven't seen the evidence for these claims.

I don't know, find direct evidence of extremely powerful Jews trying to hurt and kill white people. Calling them human animals, talking about enslaving them, kidnapping their children.

Read the Talmud and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

And were you not paying attention to the tunnel fiasco in New York late last year?

What investigations are you talking about? Be specific.

No. First either give me some good reasons why investigations and questioning are illegal or admit there is no good reason for these things to be illegal. Because they are illegal now there are no specific investigations to discuss. I remember reading about one proposal to analyze the soil around the camps to find mass graves but I dont remember if it actually happened.

If you're really a man of history as you claim then you should not be opposed to open research and investigation.

 

[Chugger]

I remember reading about one proposal to analyze the soil around the camps to find mass graves but I dont remember if it actually happened.

There have been repeated investigations which found large numerous graves full of cremains. The memes don't mention these studies.

 

[John.Doe]

There have been repeated investigations which found large numerous graves full of cremains. The memes don't mention these studies.

Its that old Chugger Special - imply you have evidence when you don't have jack shit, (or its been previously debunked a hundred pages ago and you hope the Goys forgot.)
"I have some evidence that might be interesting."
"Oh neat, let's see it then."
"Noooo, you might be meanies about it!"
"Then why even bring it up?"
"I want to bolster my argument by implying it has evidentiary support without actually presenting said evidence."
"That makes you seem really deceptive and your theory seem unsupported."
"YOU'RE A DELUSIONAL NEO-NAZI ANTISEMITE!"
".............."

I remember reading about one proposal to analyze the soil around the camps to find mass graves but I dont remember if it actually happened.

Exactly. Every time its been proposed, certain Jewish groups that make big bucks off the Holohoax sue and pressure whoever proposed it until they relent and give up. Kinda weird how they're so determined to keep anyone from doing the research that would definitely prove their claims and shut up any 'deniers' immediately, huh?

 

[Sebben Crudele II]

I'm too lazy to join the debate but I hate the retarded "muh antisemitism" the kikes do. You're not the only semites. Just because I want California nuked doesn't mean I'm antiamerica, I'm just anticalifornian.
Sheesh.

 

[Bonesjones]

You can make that argument sure, that history should be distorted to serve noble ends, but for me that's not really history but propaganda. I'm interested in history.

Nah you just lie constantly. Again where is your direct renouncement that you have no association with holocaust Controversies? Your "strategy" of ignoring questions that make you uncomfortable just shows what a duplicitious idiot you are. If you were truly interested in history you'd want things proven as much as possible, instead you are happy with slivers that push your agenda.

I haven't seen the evidence for these claims, or good reason to believe them. There are other reasons for the Holodomor, eg poor harvest and resistance to collectivization.

Or you just actively ignore anything that doesn't support your worldview like any other jew

I don't know, find direct evidence of extremely powerful Jews trying to hurt and kill white people. Calling them human animals, talking about enslaving them, kidnapping their children.

Go read the Talmud.

Something like this, from the #2 or #3 guy in Nazi Germany

Go read Isreali media, they don't even pretend to hide it. Go read any kiwi farms jew talk about white people.

There have been repeated investigations which found large numerous graves full of cremains. The memes don't mention these studies.

Your studies mention this?

 

[Preacher ✝]

Its that old Chugger Special

I've also noticed a lot of dodging going on. Selective replies.

Your studies mention this?

THATS THE THING I WAS THINKING OF!

 

[Rootless Cosmopolitan]

I don’t get Holocaust denialism. Like, “a POGROM?! In EUROPE?? Impossible!!”

If you know anything about history, it’s literally one of the least surprising historical events ever.

 

[Bonesjones]

I don’t get Holocaust denialism. Like, “a POGROM?! In EUROPE?? Impossible!!”

If you know anything about history, it’s literally one of the least surprising historical events ever.

Just because it should happen doesn't mean it did

 

[Rootless Cosmopolitan]

Just because it should happen doesn't mean it did

You can also like, literally talk to people who were there. Idk, it seems a pretty flimsy historical event to deny.

I think one issue here is the claim that the Holocaust was some sort of singular event, nothing in history had ever been done like it before, it was literally the most awful worstest thing ever etc etc. THIS claim is easily refutable — there have been many other pogroms of Jews, some that killed a similar overall % of the Jewish population. The claimed “specialness” of the Holocaust makes people latch onto it as something unbelievable, which it is really not.

There have also been brutal genocides of other people in tons of other places (in Namibia by the Germans only a few years before the Holocaust, for example).

I have a mind so incredibly open that I’ll literally believe any kind of conspiracy theory given enough evidence, but Holocaust denialism just doesn’t pass the smell test.

 

[Bonesjones]

You can also like, literally talk to people who were there. Idk, it seems a pretty flimsy historical event to deny.

You can talk to thousands of people who saw Bigfoot, is he real?

I have a mind so incredibly open that I’ll literally believe any kind of conspiracy theory given enough evidence, but Holocaust denialism just doesn’t pass the smell test.

"I'm open to anything except jews lying" isn't really saying anything

 

[Rootless Cosmopolitan]

You can talk to thousands of people who saw Bigfoot, is he real?

"I'm open to anything except jews lying" isn't really saying anything

I mean, if I could also talk to Bigfoot and see him saying he existed, yes I would believe it. I’ve talked to people who were there on both sides and it really seems like the main people who deny the Holocaust were not involved. It’s really a weird thing to deny.

I guess my main interest here is WHY deny it? Is your issue that the Jews bring it up a lot, while Namibians haven’t really been able to effectively leverage their genocide for brownie points?

 

[Bonesjones]

I mean, if I could also talk to Bigfoot and see him saying he existed, yes I would believe it.

Look at you moving the goalpost already.

I’ve talked to people who were there on both sides and it really seems like the main people who deny the Holocaust were not involved.

What is "there"? what is the "holocaust"? Every leader of the Allies biographies didn't mention the holocaust, they were there. It didn't happen.

It’s really a weird thing to deny.

Only if you think jews are incapable of lying. Why deny Bigfoot exists people for thousands of years all over the world have seen him, so he must exist. Yet you don't believe.

I guess my main interest here is WHY deny it?

Why deny the truth? You can't show me proof one jew was ever gassed to death and I'm supposed to believe they did it 5,999,999 more?

Is your issue that the Jews bring it up a lot, while Namibians haven’t really been able to effectively leverage their genocide for brownie points?

Yeah people tend to have stronger feelings about lied that personally affect them over ones that don't, big brain moment.