The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Taser Confetti]

I’ll bite…

For the sake of argument let’s say it happened and all 6 million - fuck, let’s make it 8 got killed purposefully in death camps. That leaves about 50 million goyim civilians dead in WW2.

They’re not special nor are they entitled to any special privileges.

 

[Black Man Underwear]

Remember, I am arguing against Bonejones, so we're talking about modern Japanese people. What do they think Chinese did to them an ancient years that justified mass rape or chemical warfare. If you're not taking Bonesjones' position, just let me know.

It seems like Bonesjones is arguing that the average Japanese person thinks this way, but even if we filter for ultranationalism, I highly doubt that's true. Rape and mass murder of civilians is just something people find unpalatable. We have their writings, private diaries, etc. Find me something where they are referring to mass rape as brutal, but justifiable.

But we're not talking about ancient years. We're talking about events that happened in the same time period.
That is how they justify it.

Generally they do not agree that the rapes happened.
If they agree that mass murders happened, they are downplayed and re-contextualized.
Of course nobody goes around saying "X thousands of Chinks deserved rape".
They still agree there were war crimes committed, they just disagree on the scale and whether Japan was worse than China or Korea.

Also, this is not a small group. Nippon Kaigi comprises about 50% of the current parliament, plus the Prime Minister.
Japanese ultranationalism is not small, it is a massive portion of Japanese right wing politicians.

Japan is a radically different culture with a massive difference in morality. To them, they experienced 1,000 years of civil war, rape, genocide, and violence, so they see a war crime here and there as excusable if it's for a good cause.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

I’ll bite…

For the sake of argument let’s say it happened and all 6 million - fuck, let’s make it 8 got killed purposefully in death camps. That leaves about 50 million goyim civilians dead in WW2.

They’re not special nor are they entitled to any special privileges.

Though the death camps are significant as it’s one of the only times where the mass extermination of a group was, for lack of better word, industrialized. Look a the Armenian and Rwandan genocides. There were no institutions set up by the government, records kept, or large complexes built where people were transported and died there.

Whatever you think happened in those camps, it is clear that a lot of people were sent to those camps and did not return.

 

[Taser Confetti]

Though the death camps are significant as it’s one of the only times where the mass extermination of a group was, for lack of better word, industrialized. Look a the Armenian and Rwandan genocides. There were no institutions set up by the government, records kept, or large complexes built where people were transported and died there.

Whatever you think happened in those camps, it is clear that a lot of people were sent to those camps and did not return.

Well a lot of gypsies, Jehovah’s Witnesses and fudgepackers went those too and you can criticize 2/3rds of them.

Also, Unit 731

 

[Chugger]

Of course nobody goes around saying "X thousands of Chinks deserved rape".

Well that is what Bonesjones is saying. No one except total cranks deny that there weren't brutalities. Bonesjones thinks those brutalities, such as mass rape, are justifiable to most Japanese. Even if we filter for Ultranationalists only, such an assertion seems outlandish. If you aren't taking his position that's fine, just let me know. It's possible we don't have a serious disagreement here.

But we're not talking about ancient years. We're talking about events that happened in the same time period.
That is how they justify it.

Are you aware of the origins of the Sino-Japanese war? It was a war of pure Japanese aggression and racial supremacy, w multiple false flag incidents. China did nothing.

 

[Trump's Chosen]

Though the death camps are significant as it’s one of the only times where the mass extermination of a group was, for lack of better word, industrialized

I know this is one of the tenets of the holocaust media industry as has been pushed since the 70-80s. But please explain it to me like I'm a retard (not far off tbh). Why would the fact that it is industrialized make a significant difference to its political or sociological impact?

There were no institutions set up by the government, records kept, or large complexes built where people were transported and died there.

Soviet prison camps are kinda similar, for a contemporary comparison.

 

[Chugger]

I know this is one of the tenets of the holocaust media industry as has been pushed since the 70-80s. But please explain it to me like I'm a retard (not far off tbh). Why would the fact that it is industrialized make a significant difference to its political or sociological impact?

It was a "civilized" massacre, unlike something like the Armenian genocide. We're civilized too. See this book:

Zygmunt Bauman's book "Modernity and the Holocaust" presents a provocative and influential thesis about the relationship between modern society and the Holocaust. Here's a concise overview of the main argument:

Bauman argues that the Holocaust was not an aberration or a reversion to barbarism, but rather a product of modern civilization itself. His key points include:

1. Rational bureaucracy: Modern bureaucratic systems, with their emphasis on efficiency and detached decision-making, enabled the systematic implementation of genocide.
2. Technology: Advanced technology and industrial processes were used to carry out mass murder on an unprecedented scale.
3. Social engineering: The modernist belief in rationally reshaping society contributed to the Nazi ideology of creating a "pure" race.
4. Moral distancing: Modern organizational structures allowed individuals to distance themselves morally from the consequences of their actions.
5. Dehumanization: Scientific classification and categorization of human beings facilitated the process of othering and dehumanizing victims.

Bauman contends that these features of modernity created the conditions that made the Holocaust possible. He challenges the notion that the Holocaust was a unique event, arguing instead that it revealed dangerous potentials inherent in modern society.

This thesis has significant implications for how we understand both the Holocaust and modern society, suggesting that we must remain vigilant against the potentially destructive aspects of rationalization and bureaucratization.

 

[Black Man Underwear]

Well that is what Bonesjones is saying. No one except total cranks deny that there weren't brutalities. Bonesjones thinks those brutalities, such as mass rape, are justifiable to most Japanese. Even if we filter for Ultranationalists only, such an assertion seems outlandish. If you aren't taking his position that's fine, just let me know. It's possible we don't have a serious disagreement here.


Are you aware of the origins of the Sino-Japanese war? It was a war of pure Japanese aggression and racial supremacy, w multiple false flag incidents. China did nothing.

I'm not taking a side on the Sino-Japanese war. I really don't care.

Propaganda is propaganda, who started it doesn't matter. If you want to trace who started what, we will be tracing events back to prehistory.
Historical events, both real and perceived, will forever be used to justify every action or accusation.

In all wars, both sides committed genocide. Some more than others. This is even more true for Asia.

 

[Trump's Chosen]

It was a "civilized" massacre, unlike something like the Armenian genocide. We're civilized too. See this book:

Five points.

Dehumanization is also an aspect of every non civilised massacres and the technology and bureaucracy is difference without distinction to soviet russia with its deathly labour camps.

What we're left with is social engineering and moral distancing. Now to get back to my question, why would these two aspects result in an event that has significantly different political or sociological implications?

It started with @Taser Confetti 's post said that it should not have special privileges. Do you think it should have special privileges? Because of social engineering and moral distancing? Or...?

Does the manner in which the stage is set for mass murder matter that much? Would an inefficient country that reaches a similar death toll be less morally culpable?

 

[Chugger]

Do you think it should have special privileges? Because of social engineering and moral distancing? Or...?

All these things that were mentioned just make the Holocaust more interesting from a sociological perspective. Baumann calls it a window. Something we in the "civilized world" can use to understand ourselves better. The Armenian genocide isn't as relevant in this sense.

To me, on a moral level, none of this matters. Doesn't matter if you were gassed or starved to death in POW camp or in Leningrad. It was genocidal. One could make the argument that the allies were committing genocide against the Germans too, and I would agree, but it was a lesser genocide, in that there was a more direct military objective. With the starvation of Leningrad they refused the cities surrender (something that would make sense militarily) because they wanted the people inside to die.

 

[Meriasek]

As for the Holocausts efficiency, I always found that a bit weird when they often used odd contraptions to kill, and mostly relied on hard labor and sickness to do the job.
The Rwandan Genocide, now that was efficient. Simple tools, simple goals. Just getting shit done. Now that's efficient. Those niggers from a different have been mean to you in the past? Grab a machete and go to town.
No complex punch card calculations, building camps and forced labor and digging mass graves and massive crematories and shit. Want to make a people be gone? Just do it.
Well, it's a bit uncivilised, but it sure was efficient.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

Does the manner in which the stage is set for mass murder matter that much? Would an inefficient country that reaches a similar death toll be less morally culpable?

The death camp is something that hasn't been seen before. A labor camp may have deadly working conditions, but its purpose is to utilize prisoners as slave labor. A concentration camp inters people for some duration; an open air prison. Something like Unit 731 used its prisoners for fucked up experiments. The purpose of a death camp is to ensure that its occupants die.

The Nazi death camps would receive people by trains, empty them, eliminate the ones that couldn't serve as forced labor, and repeat. There is also the fact that the Nazis kept records of all of this. We can tell when people were shipped out from ghettos to these camps.

I can't think of any other genocide which kept such records. I don't believe we have documents from the Armenian Genocide stating how many people died this week on the death march or letters from The Trail of Tears detailing how many Indians died from disease or starvation. But we do have the records of the Holocaust.

 

[Volmsaiyan]

I believe that on some level Jews were killed in camps, but it's just very hard to believe 6million. If anything we all know how Jews love to portray themselves as these benevolent, righteous people & love exaggerating how they persecuted for absolutely no reason, hell its a miracle they aren't extinct it's only by gods will & testicular fortitude they survived,if you disagree you're a antisemitic heathen.

 

[Trump's Chosen]

The death camp is something that hasn't been seen before

How about since? Has his ever happened after?

 

[Armor of God]

How about since? Has his ever happened after?

Technically still in operation in places like North Korea, where they send would-be defectors to hard labor camps. While it's impossible to say for sure, it's believed that the mortality rates at these camps are extremely high.

 

[Armor of God]

Think of all of the absurdities that you have to believe to make any sense of the "Holocaust" as its taught.

Millions of people killed in "death camps" while Germany was involved in war all over the world, rather than using these people as forced laborers.

Millions of bodies having to be cremated and then liquified, which we have shown over and over in this thread is a complete fabrication.

Everything always boils down to "well the experts agree that it happened"..."we have the confessions during Nuremberg"...this shit is retard tier. As if "experts" have absolutely no agenda and as if any "confessions" received during those trials weren't delivered under extreme duress.

Want to see some real genocides ? Go check out the Killing Fields in Cambodia. Not some made up horse shit to give Jews a Get Out of Jail Free card and virtual carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

How about since? Has his ever happened after?

No. Maybe the closest would be the kind of shit that the Khmer Rouge got up to with their labor camps but they did not have a process for the elimination of a whole group of people.

Most genocides are similar to what the Einsatzgruppen did. Round up the group, isolate them, then kill them. Other typical genocidal acts are to destroy communities and force the group out of the country.

 

[Dieter Laser]

Well that is what Bonesjones is saying. No one except total cranks deny that there weren't brutalities. Bonesjones thinks those brutalities, such as mass rape, are justifiable to most Japanese. Even if we filter for Ultranationalists only, such an assertion seems outlandish.

That’s if they even know about these events. Japanese education and its whitewashing of history is huge. Most of the under 21 crowd have zero idea what happened in WW2 besides the USA nuking them for No Real Reason

Japan is an ethnostate, the only difference between them and Nazi germany is they don’t have millions of anti-Japanese to round up and kill, bc ethnostate.

 

[Lone Wandering Courier]

 

[Chugger]

That’s if they even know about these events. Japanese education and its whitewashing of history is huge. Most of the under 21 crowd have zero idea what happened in WW2 besides the USA nuking them for No Real Reason

Japan is an ethnostate, the only difference between them and Nazi germany is they don’t have millions of anti-Japanese to round up and kill, bc ethnostate.

We can't say that every country that is an ethno state have genocidal tendencies. Poland is an ethnostate.

Most here would say I am realistic about or prejudiced against Nazi Germany and I think they wouldn't have done a genocide if they weren't mired in an existential conflict. Himmler in 1940 explicitly rejected physical destruction of ethnic groups.