The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Scream Aim Fire]

So do you believe in Bigfoot?

I think he was trying to comment on your grammar, frankly.

Apologizes for derailing the current conversation, but I was curious; anyone got a thread for talking about the Italian and Japanese sides of WW2? We're getting plenty of talk about Germany and the Holocaust here; any threads about Italy or Japan?

 

[Bonesjones]

I think he was trying to comment on your grammar, frankly.

Apologizes for derailing the current conversation, but I was curious; anyone got a thread for talking about the Italian and Japanese sides of WW2? We're getting plenty of talk about Germany and the Holocaust here; any threads about Italy or Japan?

Why would he deserve any effort? He has no original thought and only regurgitates what other people say, as he admitted within the last few pages.

The other theaters of war don't have giant propaganda machines behind them, so get talked about a lot less. Italy just rolls over and does whatever their conquerors say. Japan mostly just island hopped the Pacific looking for oil before getting suckered into attacking the USA and getting completely owned.

 

[Chugger]

I think he was trying to comment on your grammar, frankly.

Apologizes for derailing the current conversation, but I was curious; anyone got a thread for talking about the Italian and Japanese sides of WW2? We're getting plenty of talk about Germany and the Holocaust here; any threads about Italy or Japan?

The empire of Japan is, according to historiography, responsible for the deaths of 19-30 million people, through mass killings and biological warfare and a scorched earth policy. There's way less evidence of this genocide than there is of the Holocaust btw, which gives you an idea of how off revisionists are when they say Holocaust is given special treatment by historians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

Of course there is revisionist history there, whitewashing their crimes, just like there's history whitewashing crimes by NSDAP, USSR and the Ottoman Empire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre_denial

It's a valid thread topic. Bonesjones again shows his historical illiteracy.

 

[Volmsaiyan]

There's a reason why every so often in history people try to get rid of the Jews and it sure isn't because they are gods chosen people. Maybe the protocols of elder zion isn't made up

 

[Bonesjones]

There's way less evidence of this genocide than there is of the Holocaust btw, which gives you an idea of how off revisionists are when they say Holocaust is given special treatment by historians.

There is no evidence for the Holocaust as we've shown. Neither China nor Japan deny Japan's brutality during the war. Japan just doesn't think they did anything wrong. Again you fall back on saying all this evidence exists yet you can't ever seem to find it.

Of course there is revisionist history there, whitewashing their crimes, just like there's history whitewashing crimes by NSDAP, USSR and the Ottoman Empire.

China has a vested interest in exaggerating claims and being an insular totalitarian ethnostate, you'll have a hard time making any headway in revision.

It's a valid thread topic. Bonesjones again shows his historical illiteracy.

Not for the Holocaust thread, since it has nothing to do with the holocaust, unless you are about to say the Japanese killed jews as well. There's been plenty of other threads about World War 2 that just slowly die from a lack of interest.

 

[Lou Sassle]

I've met a woman who claimed to be a Jew in a concentration camp during the war and she spoke to our class and we got to ask questions. She made ridiculous claims of fantastical contraptions to kill jews. When I asked her why they wouldn't just shoot them where they found them her answer was that none of the German soldiers wanted to directly kill them. So instead they starved thousands of rats and dumped them in pits full of Jews to eat them alive. They had nothing. Hundreds of Jews packed into rooms barely bigger than a bathroom stacked 5 high to sleep in. No food for months. Water only every 3 days. They'd beat them randomly. They made them dig mass graves thousands of Jews long and kill groups of a hundred thousand plus at time. There was a Jew catapult that smashed them into chunks by throwing them at a wall across the yard. She claimed that a guard beat her with her younger sister until her sister was dead. She was around 18 and her sister was around 10.



I've also spoken with a man who was a boy in Argentina and his father worked for several escaped Nazis. Including one who ran one of the camps. He spoke with these men weekly and asked all sorts of questions. According to him his camp was meant to temporarily house prisoners. It had a movie theater, pool and work center. Prisoners were taken to local factories to work. At first everything was running smoothly and the prisoners were happy. Then came the escapes and more rules. Then the prisoners became violent and several ended up being shot. Then the war started to turn and the food shortages started. Prisoners began to starve. The soldiers and locals received food first. More violence and riots came to the camp. After months of this he couldn't stand watching the several thousand people in the camp starving to death and there certainly wasn't enough of anything to go around any more. He ordered them to be shot and the camp to be abandoned. The allies came in a couple days later to a nearly empty camp devoid of Germans and left with the few prisoners that hid.



He was apparently very regretful he couldn't make more food appear out of thin air. He couldn't just leave them there and they wouldn't survive much longer anyway.







I'm more inclined to believe the man's story. There's proof of buildings and what they were used for. There's proof of work released prisoners. There's even records of several being released and unguarded yet they returned voluntary hundreds of times. I think it went down like the camp manager said they were relocation camps and didn't have anywhere to send them. So they used them as laborers. They weren't fed first and were treated poorly by guards just like any prison. When things started running out they went without. Once it was clear they were going to die and couldn't work anymore they were executed to either free up what resources they were using or to end the suffering. They wasn't any mass killings at camps for fun. You can shoot people in groups in the woods down the road easier. The prisoners were nothing more than temporary laborers.

 

[Chugger]

Japan just doesn't think they did anything wrong

Japan does accept blame for war crimes against China, eg the Nanking massacre, you bloody, ignorant fool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre

The historical consensus is 200,000 were said to be killed within 6 weeks, a total that exceeds any known massacre of Jews in the USSR.

There are revisionists within Japan, who like yourself, view it all as a propaganda trick, only a few people were killed. They're regarded as fools.

 

[Bonesjones]

Japan does accept blame for war crimes against China, eg the Nanking massacre, you bloody, ignorant fool.

What did I say?

Neither China nor Japan deny Japan's brutality during the war. Japan just doesn't think they did anything wrong.

Oh you are a fucking illiterate retard.

Also, why are you talking about anything but the holocaust, you can't even keep your arguments about that straight. No one cares how many bug men killed each other because it's all irrelevant.

 

[Chugger]

What did I say?

"Japan just doesn't think they did anything wrong."

What did you mean by this? You mean they think Nanking was a justifiable, though brutal act?

 

[Bonesjones]

"Japan just doesn't think they did anything wrong."

What did you mean by this? You mean they think Nanking was a justifiable, though brutal act?

I'm glad you are able to parse basic English.

 

[Chugger]

I'm glad you are able to parse basic English.

So you're saying the Japanese think the following are justifiable?

• The Nanjing Massacre: Estimated 200,000 Chinese civilians and disarmed soldiers were massacred.
• Human experimentation: Unit 731 and other units conducted lethal human experiments, including vivisections and biological warfare tests.
• Comfort women system: Forced sexual slavery of women from occupied territories.
• Forced labor: Millions of civilians and POWs were subjected to forced labor under harsh conditions.
• POW abuse: Widespread mistreatment, torture, and killing of prisoners of war.
• Biological and chemical warfare: Use of biological and chemical weapons against Chinese military and civilian targets.
• Manila massacre (1945): An estimated 100,000 Filipino civilians were killed.
• Sook Ching massacre: Mass killings of Chinese in Singapore.
• Bataan Death March: Forced march of American and Filipino prisoners resulting in thousands of deaths.

Are you insane, or illiterate?

 

[Bonesjones]

So you're saying the Japanese think the following are justifiable?

Welcome to Japanese racism.

Are you insane, or illiterate?

No but you clearly are. I know it's a culture shock but the vast majority of humanity doesn't believe in American/Western European culture, philosophy, political mores. If you think that's bad maybe read the Talmud sometime.

 

[Chugger]

Welcome to Japanese racism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre

I would direct people to the "Rape" section, which is arguably not the worst aspect of the massacre.

AI summary:

• Scale of rape:
  • International Military Tribunal for the Far East estimated 20,000 cases in the first month
  • Some estimates claim up to 80,000 cases
  • Quote: "We estimate at least 1,000 cases a night and many by day."
• Victims:
  • Women of all ages, including children and elderly
  • Some male victims (sodomized or forced to perform "repulsive sex acts")
  • Quote: "No matter how young or old, they all could not escape the fate of being raped."
• Systematic nature:
  • Soldiers went door-to-door searching for girls
  • Women were captured using trucks and taken to soldiers
  • Quote: "We sent out coal trucks to the city streets and villages to seize a lot of women."
• Gang rapes:
  • Many women were subjected to gang rape
  • Quote: "And then each of them was allocated to fifteen to twenty soldiers for sexual intercourse and abuse."
• Brutality and murder:
  • Many women were killed after being raped
  • Bodies were often mutilated
  • Quote: "The women were often killed immediately after being raped, often through explicit mutilation"
  • Examples include: "penetrating vaginas with bayonets, long sticks of bamboo, or other objects"
• Specific horrific incidents:
  • "A six-months pregnant woman was stabbed sixteen times in the face and body, one stab piercing and killing her unborn child."
  • "A young woman had a beer bottle rammed up her vagina after being raped, and was then shot."
  • "A fifteen year old girl was locked naked in a barracks housing two hundred to three hundred Japanese soldiers and raped multiple times daily."
• Forced incest:
  • Families were forced to commit incestuous acts
  • Quote: "sons were forced to rape their mothers, fathers their daughters, and brothers their sisters."
• Rape in front of family members:
  • Quote: "Frequently mothers had to watch their babies beheaded, and then submit to raping."
  • "Other family members would be forced to look on."
• Resistance and consequences:
  • Quote: "In case of resistance or anything that seems like disapproval, there is a bayonet stab or a bullet."
  • "If husbands or brothers intervene, they're shot."

Most Japanese people aren't going to be so familiar with the details (I present this more out of interest in making a comparison to Holocaust claims), but the mass rapes are generally acknowledged. And you think the average Japanese person nowadays, and leadership, if they gave an honest answer would ultimately not consider this to be "wrong". OK. We have official apologies from the highest echelons of Japanese government, the massacre being treated critically in school textbooks, surveys showing people viewed their wartime actions negatively, media being made that's critical of the past, reparations sent to countries formerly occupied, scholarly work critical of wartime actions.

Here's the AI's character analysis of you, which I basically agree with, though I think you're more lazy ("willful ignorance" is a good term) than racist against Japanese people for being generally ok with mass rape.

This person's stance exemplifies a profound intellectual laziness that borders on willful ignorance. By reducing complex historical and cultural issues to a simplistic "Welcome to Japanese racism," they demonstrate a complete unwillingness to engage in thoughtful analysis or critical thinking. This lazy shorthand allows them to avoid grappling with the nuances of history, cultural change, and societal progress.

Their comfort with racist rhetoric is particularly alarming. The ease with which they attribute horrific attitudes to an entire nation betrays a deeply ingrained racist worldview. This casual racism isn't just offensive; it's dangerous. It perpetuates harmful stereotypes, dehumanizes millions of people, and closes off any possibility of genuine understanding or dialogue.

This combination of intellectual sloth and racist comfort creates a toxic echo chamber where ignorance reinforces prejudice. It's a self-perpetuating cycle of bigotry that resists facts, nuance, or alternative perspectives. The person seems content to wallow in their own biases rather than challenge themselves to think critically or empathetically.

Moreover, this approach reveals a disturbing lack of intellectual curiosity. Instead of being intrigued by cultural differences or historical complexities, they retreat to simplistic, racist explanations. This mindset not only misunderstands history but actively distorts it to fit a narrow, bigoted worldview.

 

[Kola]

It didn't happen and it's a harmful left-wing conspiracy theory. But it's a good thing that it happened and they deserve it.

 

[2mm and 99 others]

Why arent the stories of the innocent roma and homosexuals killed by the nazis talked about? I know the jews have a whole country to advocate for them, but there are enough gay people and roma to spread awareness for what happened to them.

They are, but not that many, as the roma are notoriously bad in communication with the rest of society, whiteys sometimes do that for them tho. Also unlike jews, they just weren't friends, schoolmates, coworkers, relatives and neighbours of ordinary people that much.
If an entire population of a gypsy village outside a town suddenly fucked off somewhere, people weren't that concerned with it, unlike when the jews they talked with on daily basis went one day to the railway station and never returned and never even contacted them again and left vacant flats behind. In some towns, there are the brass jewish stolpersteine in every street, as for gypsies, its mostly just some small memorial in the fields. Also the current gypsy population in some countries sometimes has nothing to do with those that were exterminated, so they don't have the stories.

As for homosexuals, well, I don't know what was their status in non-communist countries of former 3rd reich, but they were persecuted by the communists after the war and not many lived to see the end of the regime and publish their stories.
Yes. In reality, communist governments that existed, hated fags. That's what kindercommies don't seem to realize.

 

[Bonesjones]

I would direct people to the "Rape" section, which is arguably not the worst aspect of the massacre.

I'm glad you've moved on to uncritically reading wikipedia.

We have official apologies from the highest echelons of Japanese government, the massacre being treated critically in school textbooks, surveys showing people viewed their wartime actions negatively, media being made that's critical of the past, reparations sent to countries formerly occupied, scholarly work critical of wartime actions.

I guess you forget that Japan is an occupied country under vassal rule of the USA, they'll say anything to keep out of trouble while inwardly thinking differently. You'd know that if you knew anything about Japanese culture. You can start by reading Shogun which is a basic primer on the Japanese. It's also a really good book.

Here's the AI's character analysis of you, which I basically agree with, though I think you're more lazy ("willful ignorance" is a good term) than racist against Japanese people for being generally ok with mass rape.

Now you've moved on to uncritically reading AI prompts. You really are a brainlet.

Here's an easy question for you. How many jews do you think survived the war?

As for homosexuals, well, I don't know what was their status in non-communist countries of former 3rd reich, but they were persecuted by the communists after the war and not many lived to see the end of the regime and publish their stories.
Yes. In reality, communist governments that existed, hated fags. That's what kindercommies don't seem to realize.

It's only with the magic of Hollywood and Jewish propaganda that homosexuality has started to be accepted, except even then it's barely ane begrudgingly. Remember that gay marriage was legalized not by popular vote (it failed) but by judicial fiat (a Jewish woman judge said it was unconstitutional).

 

[Chugger]

I'm glad you've moved on to uncritically reading wikipedia.
I guess you forget that Japan is an occupied country under vassal rule of the USA, they'll say anything to keep out of trouble while inwardly thinking differently. You'd know that if you knew anything about Japanese culture. You can start by reading Shogun which is a basic primer on the Japanese. It's also a really good book.

Haha, what part of Shogun (a book written by a westerner about Japan 400 years ago) leads you to believe that in modern times Japanese people regard things like mass rape and biological warfare as justifiable?

the AI:

This response from Bonesjones demonstrates several problematic aspects:

1. Intellectual dishonesty: Dismissing well-documented evidence as merely saying things "to keep out of trouble" is a convenient way to ignore facts that contradict their view.
2. Cultural essentialism: The implication that Japanese culture is monolithic and unchanging since feudal times is deeply flawed and borders on racist stereotyping.
3. Oversimplification: Reducing understanding of a complex modern society to reading a historical novel shows a profound lack of critical thinking.
4. Conspiracy thinking: The idea that Japan is an "occupied country under vassal rule" ignores decades of sovereign Japanese governance and international relations.
5. Moving the goalposts: When presented with evidence, they shift to unprovable claims about what people are "inwardly thinking."
6. Arrogance: The suggestion that reading "Shogun" provides superior insight into modern Japan compared to actual evidence is laughably misguided.
7. Bad faith argumentation: Instead of engaging with the evidence presented, they resort to ad hominem attacks and baseless assertions.

This response reveals a deeply flawed approach to understanding history and culture. It prioritizes maintaining a preconceived narrative over engaging with factual evidence. It's a textbook example of confirmation bias and willful ignorance masquerading as cultural insight.

 

[Bonesjones]

Haha, what part of Shogun (a book written by a westerner about Japan 400 years ago) leads you to believe that in modern times Japanese people regard things like mass rape and biological warfare as justifiable?

Because it's a basic primer on Japanese culture from a point of view that is relatable and easy to understand. I'm glad you can use Google to continue posting nonsense, it really makes you look intelligent.

 

[Chugger]

Because it's a basic primer on Japanese culture from a point of view that is relatable and easy to understand. I'm glad you can use Google to continue posting nonsense, it really makes you look intelligent.

I asked you what part of the book leads to you to believe that modern Japanese regard mass rape and biological warfare by Imperial Japan as justifiable?

 

[Bonesjones]

I asked you what part of the book leads to you to believe that modern Japanese regard mass rape and biological warfare by Imperial Japan as justifiable?

You clearly are unable to read nor comprehend basic thoughts.