The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Ignatius von Cistern]

So why would we believe them over someone who said they wanted to but were ordered not to?

different sources say different things. the russian and spanish version of that article mention gas. the german one does not. there were very few survivors so the story is not as clear as it could have been orherwise. but either way very tangential to the use of gas in the deathcamps to kill people.

Again, it's a pathetic attempt to suggest a policy of gassing people by Germany when it's been explicitly rejected on every level.

it hasn't been explicitly rejected. this is a fringe view based on a convoluted interpretation of cherry-picked data.

So again, how can you prove the holocaust is real?

there is a large body of evidence that it happened exactly as described in the mainstream narrative.

Why arent the stories of the innocent roma and homosexuals killed by the nazis talked about? I know the jews have a whole country to advocate for them, but there are enough gay people and roma to spread awareness for what happened to them.

or soviet pow's? or soviet citizens marked for death through starvation?

i guess homos and gypsies are stateless and the soviet union doesn't exist any more, so there is no state-level effort on behalf of those groups.

 

[MajinGoku]

different sources say different things. the russian and spanish version of that article mention gas. the german one does not. there were very few survivors so the story is not as clear as it could have been orherwise. but either way very tangential to the use of gas in the deathcamps to kill people.



it hasn't been explicitly rejected. this is a fringe view based on a convoluted interpretation of cherry-picked data.



there is a large body of evidence that it happened exactly as described in the mainstream narrative.



or soviet pow's? or soviet citizens marked for death through starvation?

i guess homos and gypsies are stateless and the soviet union doesn't exist any more, so there is no state-level effort on behalf of those groups.

The russians are hated in western societies since the cold war so it makes sense why soviet suffering is ignored. But Gay people have good status in the west so I find it suprising their suffering is ignored during the holocaust.

 

[Bonesjones]

Why arent the stories of the innocent roma and homosexuals killed by the nazis talked about? I know the jews have a whole country to advocate for them, but there are enough gay people and roma to spread awareness for what happened to them.

None of them were intentionally killed, they were put in prison camps because homosexuality was outlawed. Post war, the US side left them in camps to be sorted out later and Soviet side they probably starved to death like pretty much everyone in Soviet custody (2 million German soldiers were intentionally starved to death).

That's odd, because the Germans were among the first to introduce mass production techniques into their weapons manufacturing. The MP40 and MG42 heavily relied on stamped steel parts, unlike previous weapons that used a lot of machining. They just didn't have the manpower and resources to match the sheer industrial capacities of the US (once ramped up) and the USSR.

Germany tried their best to engineer their way out of a lack of resources, which was never going to work.

different sources say different things. the russian and spanish version of that article mention gas. the german one does not. there were very few survivors so the story is not as clear as it could have been orherwise. but either way very tangential to the use of gas in the deathcamps to kill people.

You can test for chemical residue. These things can be proven. It's not tangental, again you dismiss evidence that pokes holes in your logic.

it hasn't been explicitly rejected. this is a fringe view based on a convoluted interpretation of cherry-picked data.

Yes it has by me, right in this conversation. You just dismiss it because it proves you wrong. Hitler was explicitly against gassing people, which we've shown repeatedly.

there is a large body of evidence that it happened exactly as described in the mainstream narrative.

Yet you can't seem to find it. "The holocaust is the most documented event in history" yet when we want you to prove it, crickets. Just more editorializing by liars and the misinformed.

or soviet pow's? or soviet citizens marked for death through starvation?

Stalin said Soviet POWs didn't exist except as traitors. He also said they would give no quarter to the Germans first.

It's almost like General Patton was completely correct and was killed for it.

 

[Ignatius von Cistern]

The russians are hated in western societies since the cold war so it makes sense why soviet suffering is ignored. But Gay people have good status in the west so I find it suprising their suffering is ignored during the holocaust.

I don't know which western society you live in but russians are not hated as most people understand that ethicity does not equate state policy or that the soviet union equates to being russian. and that fags are barely tolerated.

 

[Chugger]

It's obviously this one sided because you are unable to make an argument nor give evidence that's not openly manipulative or concealing of the truth.

You state the debate is one sided and orthodoxy has not been to make a single sound argument (as you say I've just been restating common arguments). How do you square that with the results of this poll, in which roughly 3x as many believe the Holocaust happened as don't believe . . . I could understand this if you thought the debate wasn't one sided, a complicated thing that can't be easily understood or even explicated in debate form. So why do you think Kiwifarmers (who are by and large skeptical of mainstream narratives) have got it so wrong?

https://embed.kiwifarms.st/threads/...d-believe-that-the-holocaust-happened.103122/

Another thing is the existence of prominent revisionists, eg David Irving/Mark Weber/ Eric Hunt who have backtracked on most revisionist claims. They haven't success in the mainstream due to still professing some revisionist beliefs and still having "anti semitic" views, so what do you make of this?

 

[Bonesjones]

You state the debate is one sided and orthodoxy has not been to make a single sound argument (as you say I've just been restating common arguments). How do you square that with the results of this poll, in which roughly 3x as many believe the Holocaust happened as don't believe

80 years of propaganda and making it illegal to question sure put a damper on open dialog, not considering the billions of dollars at stake to keep it as written history.

I could understand this if you thought the debate wasn't one sided, a complicated thing that can't be easily understood or even explicated in debate form. So why do you think Kiwifarmers (who are by and large skeptical of mainstream narratives) have got it so wrong?

You act like there's ever been objective discussion outside the fringes of the internet.

Another thing is the existence of prominent revisionists, eg David Irving/Mark Weber/ Eric Hunt who have backtracked on most revisionist claims.

Yeah people who are threatened tend to back pedal. Most people aren't going to die to be a foot note in history, even more so when that foot note is "died in a car acccident" or "suicide" and not "died for pushing holocaust revisionism".

They haven't success in the mainstream due to still professing some revisionist beliefs and still having "anti semitic" views, so what do you make of this?

Wow people who openly deny the holocaust have their lives ruined. Who knew jews would do such a thing?

 

[Chugger]

80 years of propaganda and making it illegal to question sure put a damper on open dialog, not considering the billions of dollars at stake to keep it as written history.

Kiwifarmers don't blindly follow propaganda. If I made a poll asking how much truth there is to the idea "Jews have co opted the US politically, economically, and culturally" how many do you think would be affirmitive.

That poll was also done well after the debate thread was underway (and our involvement in that thread). They must not consider your arguments to be very convincing. You should think about this because it gets to the heart of your delusions, which might be a tough guy act but I feel like are genuine.

This just doesn't fit with the version of reality that you are portraying (Holocaust is as defensible as Flat Earth)

Yeah people who are threatened tend to back pedal. Most people aren't going to die to be a foot note in history, even more so when that foot note is "died in a car acccident" or "suicide" and not "died for pushing holocaust revisionism".

If you're a holocaust denier in the US or Britain like the people I mentioned you can deny and people have done so and they're fine. There are hundreds of proud open Holocaust deniers, who have never received jail time or anything, just public stigmatization, which to be honest David Irving, Weber, and Hunt are still going to receive because of their anti semitic views.

 

[Bonesjones]

Kiwifarmers don't blindly follow propaganda.

Lmao.

If I made a poll asking how much truth there is to the idea "Jews have co opted the US politically, economically, and culturally" how many do you think would be affirmitive.

I don't know nor care, placing myself at odds against the world guarantees failure. I can't take them all but I can take them on.

That poll was also done well after the debate thread was underway (and our involvement in that thread). They must not consider your arguments to be very convincing.

Or they don't read them.

You should think about this because it gets to the heart of your delusions, which might be a tough guy act but I feel like are genuine.

Think about what? Fighting for the truth? I'll never stop.

This just doesn't fit with the version of reality that you are portraying (Holocaust is as defensible as Flat Earth)

Yes it does. You just can't figure out that the truth rarely matters to people. People are unprincipled and only self interested.

If you're a holocaust denier in the US or Britain like the people I mentioned you can deny and people have done so and they're fine.

I bet you'll contradict yourself in the next sentence.

There are hundreds of proud open Holocaust deniers, who have never received jail time or anything, just public stigmatization, which to be honest David Irving, Weber, and Hunt are still going to receive because of their anti semitic views.

Yep there it is.

They intentionally frame Holocaust revision in the worst way possible to dismiss it openly. Holocaust revision is also going to make you antisemitic. Once you've proven one Jewish worldwide conspiracy, you start noticing the rest.

 

[Chugger]

Think about what? Fighting for the truth? I'll never stop.

You being delusional (eg on the same level as the flat earthers)

They intentionally frame Holocaust revision in the worst way possible to dismiss it openly. Holocaust revision is also going to make you antisemitic. Once you've proven one Jewish worldwide conspiracy, you start noticing the rest.

Here's Mark Weber, I think he talks about why the hardcore revisionists are wrong about an hour into it if I remember correctly https://www.bitchute.com/video/s5GfSUDlpPoe/

You can see it's a painful/awkward subject for him.

 

[Bonesjones]

You being delusional (eg on the same level as the flat earthers)

Yet you can't prove me wrong.

Here's Mark Weber, I think he talks about why the hardcore revisionists are wrong about an hour into it if I remember correctly

No thoughts of your own, just restating others opinions. You literally are a Chat bot.

You can see it's a painful/awkward subject for him.

Who cares? I'll watch it later, maybe.

 

[AgendaPoster]

So who is winning here?
Last time I visited was a good while ago.
Did we achieve consensus or not?

 

[Trump's Chosen]

You do understand a brutal war was going on right? Civilians are generally left alone during war unless they are aiding guerilla fighters. Not just shooting them all is showing great restraint.

"all jews must be shot". Again, assuming it's accurate, where's the restraint? And why not instead "all partisans must be shot"?

 

[Alex Hogendorp]

So who is winning here?
Last time I visited was a good while ago.
Did we achieve consensus or not?

I think nobody has won. Each topic regarding politics has divided them immensely and the Holocaust topic is no different. Maybe if both sides can agreed to be open minded to eachother, they can settle this debate for good and get much closer to the truth.

 

[No Batty Boys in Jamaica]

They actually used it at least once in Crimea.

Source? I searched “Germany WW2 Tabun Gas Crimea” and just got one Reddit post saying it was used in sevestapol.

 

[Ignatius von Cistern]

Source? I searched “Germany WW2 Tabun Gas Crimea” and just got one Reddit post saying it was used in sevestapol.

It wasn't Tabun, it was a tear gas of some sort. Survivors of Adzhimushkay quarry siege reported that gas was pumped in at some stage.

 

[Ignatius von Cistern]

You can test for chemical residue. These things can be proven. It's not tangental, again you dismiss evidence that pokes holes in your logic.

If you're referring to the Leuchter report, its sampling was done badly, but from memory also detected cyanide. Later, more rigorous testing indicated the presence of cyanide on the inner surfaces of the ruins of the gas chambers and the adjacent crematoria.

 

[Chugger]

Yet you can't prove me wrong.

Flat earthers say the same thing.

 

[fresh pair of socks]

Flat earthers say the same thing.

The flat earth theory can be countered with hard science. The ancient Greeks not only figured out the Earth was round over 2000 years ago, they were also able to accurately measure the circumference.

It's completely different from relying on hearsay, conjecture, and demonstrably false testimony.

 

[Ignatius von Cistern]

It's completely different from relying on hearsay, conjecture, and demonstrably false testimony.

Nigga, you can go to Sobibor, Chelmno or Treblinka today and find human bone ash piled up or an inch underground.

 

[Chugger]

The flat earth theory can be countered with hard science. The ancient Greeks not only figured out the Earth was round over 2000 years ago, they were also able to accurately measure the circumference.

It's completely different from relying on hearsay, conjecture, and demonstrably false testimony.

My point was that flat earthers have utter conviction about their theories, think phds and people who have dedicated their lives to diligent study are retarded etc

Certainty and confidence (all bonesjones has) means diddley

Revisionism fails on any objective measure of history because there's no direct evidence for their main claims (eg that resettled Jews were actually resettled or that death camps were transit camps). Criticism is only one aspect of history