The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Chugger]

No, we weren't, you asserted that somehow open-air pit burning is somehow more efficient than closed-vessel cremation, and when I asked you to explain how you played your shuck and jive game.
"An open air pit-style burning is less efficient than any kind of crematorium,"

Excuse me sir, actually you said it was less efficient by "at least" (lol) an order of magnitude, that is 10x

"An open air pit-style burning is less efficient than any kind of crematorium, so any kinds of numbers from a closed-crematorium setting would need to be multiplied an order of magnitude, at least."

That figure (10x) is what I was incredulous about, and this is why you've effectively gone retard mode in this conversation. You're making extremely bad faith reads and strawmanning the living shit out of me to make your points.

 

[Bonesjones]

Let's look at your shitty link.

"he estimates vary from around 4.1 to 6.0 million, with more recent research supporting an even higher figure. Hilberg's Destruction of the European Jews gives a detailed breakdown of Jewish deaths."

So you have to read a whole book to figure out how they got the number.

"The Destruction of the European Jews is a 1961 book by historian Raul Hilberg."

"In 1947,[11] at one particular point in Rosenberg's course, Hilberg was taken aback when his teacher remarked: "The most wicked atrocities perpetrated on a civilian population in modern times occurred during the Napoleonic occupation of Spain." The young Hilberg interrupted the lecture to ask why the recent murder of 6 million Jews did not figure in Rosenberg's assessment. Rosenberg replied that it was a complicated matter, but that the lectures dealt only with history down to 1930, adding, "History doesn't reach down into the present age." Hilberg was amazed by this highly educated, German-Jewish emigrant passing over the genocide of European Jews in order to expound on Napoleon and the occupation of Spain. Hilberg recalled, it was an almost taboo topic in the Jewish community, and he pursued his research as a kind of "protest against silence".[12]"

How objective his research is.

"The estimate of the number of Jews who died in the Holocaust was established by Historians and demographers in the very late 1940s."

I thought it was all from Nazi documentation? So they had years to add and manipulate the data.

"There is some question of how you count. Not all murders by Nazis of Jews or non-Jews took place in camps."

So we've somehow revised the numbers down in the camps but found an equal amount added to the total from other places? makes sense if you are trying to keep that magic 6 million number. That Dark Jew Matter shines again.

"
First question: According to one source, there were 2.7 million victimsof the Holocaust. Is this the correct?

No. Your source is wrong and you should be very skeptical of any information from that source."

why shouldn't we be skeptical of every source?


"2nd question: How accurate is the total if there were no detailed records kept?

The total is quite accurate. Detailed records do exist, but the demographics can be difficult to understand."

how can the records be accurate if the demographics aren't? isn't it all from the same documentation? There they go saying things are accurate and not accurate at the same time.

"Its short answer is that, starting with Reitlinger's analysis in the early 1950s, serious researchers never accepted the Soviets' claim of four million killed at Auschwitz. Historians worked their own figures to calculate how many were killed. Independent methods of calculation and independent researchers all came to a conclusion of roughly five to six million."

Except that number wasn't revised till the 90s after David Cole exposed it for being fraudulent. So they had to invent millions more people.

"You should be aware, however, that Hilberg's death-toll estimate (5.1 million) is at the lower end of the range accepted by most Holocaust historians. A precise accounting is virtually impossible, but most estimates are in the 5.8 million range."

So they keep saying the numbers are accurate and not accurate, but they definitely know they hover around 6 million somehow. What a fucking joke.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

Okay, but why cremate them at all instead of just filling a hole, Katyn-style? What was the imperative to dispose of the bodies unlike everywhere else on the Eastern Front?

 

[Bonesjones]

Okay, but why cremate them at all instead of just filling a hole, Katyn-style? What was the imperative to dispose of the bodies unlike everywhere else on the Eastern Front?

Typhus was wide spread all over the camps, so they used every available measure to contain it. This includes delousing all clothing and buildings and incineration of affected corpses. (((Somehow))) this all gets turned into genocide and it's coverup. There's no reason to not just shove dead people into mass graves in the middle of a war zone, which is why it doesn't make any sense.

 

[Chugger]

Okay, but why cremate them at all instead of just filling a hole, Katyn-style? What was the imperative to dispose of the bodies unlike everywhere else on the Eastern Front?

Because if bodies aren't destroyed they can be counted and laid out in neat lines and used for propaganda purposes, as was done in Katyn.

Btw they destroyed bodies at the major killing sites on the eastern front too. Look up aktion 1005 for more info.

 

[The Tall Man]

Why should I bother answering questions

Why are you even posting here, then? Do you just want to preach your holocaust propaganda?

would figure in the demographic losses of the Jews of Eastern Europe.

Chugger already had that conversation and he knows the answer, he just likes to lie.

Well this is problematic because the Germans kept population statistics for the Jews under their control in occupied USSR.

They only had rough estimations, and you know this; we talked about this.

Pre-1940 census numbers are vague overall, but census numbers regarding Jewish people within Eurasia are nothing but guesswork.

The reason historians arrive at numbers that show an excess of 6 million Jews before the end of WWII is because the Holocaust is part of the calculation. That is how they get to those pre-1940 census numbers. They take the modern, more accurate census data and plot backwards, then add the bump because the Holocaust propagandists give them the number. And then the Holocaust propagandists use this Jewish population estimate as justification for their own numbers.

That is why when the number of people who got "exterminated" in Auschwitz got revised, the Holocaust numbers overall didn't go down by a few million. Suddenly they all died somewhere else, and they use the census data that itself used the Holocaust historians' data to rationalize this. It's circular reasoning.

Because if bodies aren't destroyed they can be counted and laid out in neat lines and used for propaganda purposes, as was done in Katyn.

Wow those Nazis destroyed all the evidence to make the work of future holocaust propagandist harder.
Truly evil.

@Chugger You had more than enough time to come up with a reasonable explanation regarding the operation of the Brausebad in Dachau.
Explain the whole procedure of how they would have gassed people in the Brausebad.
Start with the Jews lining up in front of the building and explain it step by step.
I would be happy with that.
You can also just admit you are unable to come up with a rational scenario.

You are the one who claims it's a real gas chamber so please elaborate.

 

[Bonesjones]

Because if bodies aren't destroyed they can be counted and laid out in neat lines and used for propaganda purposes, as was done in Katyn.

Btw they destroyed bodies at the major killing sites on the eastern front too. Look up aktion 1005 for more info.

Damn those evil Nazis, exposing Russian war crimes and their attempts to frame them. All they did was let international teams of scientists supervise the whole operation to make sure nothing was amise. Why didn't the allies do the same thing?

 

[John.Doe]

You're making extremely bad faith reads and strawmanning the living shit out of me to make your points.

How can I strawman you, when you believe in invisible free-energy cremation machines and psychic Nazis? You're a jet-pack equipped Hitler away from an ironically edgy alternative history fantasy shooter.

 

[Chugger]

How can I strawman you, when you believe in invisible free-energy cremation machines and psychic Nazis? You're a jet-pack equipped Hitler away from an ironically edgy alternative history fantasy shooter.

You did strawman me, by stating I had "asserted that somehow open-air pit burning is somehow more efficient than closed-vessel cremation", when in fact all I did was ask you to justify your claim that it was an order of magnitude less efficient.

And you just strawmanned me again in this post, absurdities aside. I could probably show you off at psych conferences as being some kind of pathological strawmanner. I believe you can get past this though, you just have to try really hard, read my posts more carefully, not assume point blank that I'm saying idiotic things. Give me the benefit of the doubt ya know

 

[Chugger]

@Chugger You had more than enough time to come up with a reasonable explanation regarding the operation of the Brausebad in Dachau.
Explain the whole procedure of how they would have gassed people in the Brausebad.
Start with the Jews lining up in front of the building and explain it step by step.
I would be happy with that.
You can also just admit you are unable to come up with a rational scenario.

You are the one who claims it's a real gas chamber so please elaborate.

no I am done with this loop

 

[John.Doe]

You did strawman me, by stating I had "asserted that somehow open-air pit burning is somehow more efficient than closed-vessel cremation", when in fact all I did was ask you to justify your claim that it was an order of magnitude less efficient.

Maybe you shouldn't have responded to the questions about fuel concerns in closed vessel cremation with ridiculous tangent posting about open pit burning, and then I wouldn't point out that it only worsens the issue regarding the lack of fuel.
"There are no bodies because they cremated them all to dust."
"Where did the fuel come from for that?"
"Well they don't need that much fuel, they had crematoriums."
"Well you're showing evidence of burn pits, not even crematoriums."
"Well the open burn pits are more efficient and need less fuel, so it answers the question about fuel."
"They aren't, though? Otherwise they'd cremate people in pits today, instead of a closed vessel. I mean, the opportunity for heat loss is pretty severe in several ways."
"Please read this document about using a modern technology to sterilize diseased cattle in burn pits prior to burial, that proves me right."
"This is about sterilization and bio-safety, not about complete cremation though? And it uses a technology that the Germans couldn't access, plus the pictures you claim are of the burn pits don't have anything like these machines in them so how does this apply?"
" STOP STRAWMANNING ME! PROVE THAT OVENS ARE MORE EFFICIENT THAN A PIT!"

You're trying to shift the burden of proof with ridiculous demands to avoid answering questions you can't address.

The more I argue with Holocaust promoters, the better I come to know their dialectic. First they count on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply play stupid. If all this doesn't help, they pretend not to understand, or, if challenged, they change the subject in a hurry, quote platitudes which, if you accept them, they immediately relate to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, give ground and pretend not to know exactly what you were talking about.

Whenever you try to attack one of these apostles, your hand closes on a jelly-like slime which divides up and pours through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really strike one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn't help but agree, and if you believe that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement will be great the next day. The promoter had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattles off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affects amazement; he can't remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day.

Sometimes I sit here thunderstruck. I don't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying. Gradually I began to hate them.

 

[Bonesjones]

You did strawman me, by stating I had "asserted that somehow open-air pit burning is somehow more efficient than closed-vessel cremation", when in fact all I did was ask you to justify your claim that it was an order of magnitude less efficient.

How about you show us the fuel they used to cremate anyone before we worry about how they did it?

And you just strawmanned me again in this post, absurdities aside. I could probably show you off at psych conferences as being some kind of pathological strawmanner. I believe you can get past this though, you just have to try really hard, read my posts more carefully, not assume point blank that I'm saying idiotic things. Give me the benefit of the doubt ya know

Lmao, why would we give a lying little weasel any benefit, you are a retarded faggot that deserves to stub his toe every time he walks in a room.

no I am done with this loop

"Guys i lost can we drop it, stop proving me wrong and a lying retard"

 

[The Tall Man]

no I am done with this loop

You mean you are still stuck in the loop of not wanting to engage with a single question.
I though you had confidence in your believes?

Chugger why did the Nazis build a faux gas chamber in Dachau?

 

[Chugger]

You mean you are still stuck in the loop of not wanting to engage with a single question.
I though you had confidence in your believes?

Chugger why did the Nazis build a faux gas chamber in Dachau?

Why do you have three noses?

Maybe you shouldn't have responded to the questions about fuel concerns in closed vessel cremation with ridiculous tangent posting about open pit burning, and then I wouldn't point out that it only worsens the issue regarding the lack of fuel.

Actually the topic came up when you were questioning my stats on fuel overall fuel consumption. I said, very generously, I would use open pit burning for all fuel consumption numbers.

But wait hold on, did you make a mistake when you said open air pits were an order of magnitude less efficient? What's goin on there, you've said you're proficient at science so you should be able to explain this comment.

 

[Bonesjones]

"The Destruction of the European Jews is a 1961 book by historian Raul Hilberg."

Let's talk about this guy some more.

"Hilberg served first in the 45th Infantry Division during World War II, but, given his native fluency in German and academic interests, he was soon attached to the War Documentation Department, charged with examining archives throughout Europe. While quartered in the Braunes Haus, he stumbled upon Hitler's crated private library in Munich."

Why would they put this guy in the infantry if he was fluent in German when it was a division actively in Italy?



Oh it's because jews were conspiring to keep other jews out of combat and would also aid in pushing forth their holocaust lies.

Your link also claimed they were getting accurate data from the Soviets after the Iron Curtain was up. So the US government was unable to do what jews were doing, which is further evidence of Jewish conspiracy.

Actually the topic came up when you were questioning my stats on fuel overall fuel consumption. I said, very generously, I would use open pit burning for all fuel consumption numbers.

It doesn't matter what the stats are if you can't prove what was used in the first place. It's all a dodge.

 

[The Tall Man]

Why do you have three noses?

This implies that the Brausebad in Dachau not being a real gas-chamber is as ludicrous as me having three noses, which is completely impossible and provable without a doubt.

It should be very easy for you to quickly come up with an explanation that doesn't leave any doubt.

Spoiler: For Chugger's eyes only

Explain the whole procedure of how they would have gassed people in the Brausebad.
Start with the Jews lining up in front of the building and explain it step by step.
I would be happy with that.
You can also just admit you are unable to come up with a rational scenario.

 

[Chugger]

This implies that the Brausebad in Dachau not being a real gas-chamber is as ludicrous as me having three noses, which is completely impossible and provable without a doubt.

It should be very easy for you to quickly come up with an explanation that doesn't leave any doubt.

Spoiler: For Chugger's eyes only

Explain the whole procedure of how they would have gassed people in the Brausebad.
Start with the Jews lining up in front of the building and explain it step by step.
I would be happy with that.
You can also just admit you are unable to come up with a rational scenario.

No it implies that one cannot answer a question whose premises one does not agree with, eg you asking about why there is a fake gas chamber, and me asking about why you have three noses.

 

[Bonesjones]

No it implies that one cannot answer a question whose premises one does not agree with, eg you asking about why there is a fake gas chamber, and me asking about why you have three noses.

He said in a thread about questioning a premise no one agrees with. Fucking retard.

 

[John.Doe]

Actually the topic came up when you were questioning my stats on fuel overall fuel consumption. I said, very generously, I would use open pit burning for all fuel consumption numbers.

Your overall fuel consumption numbers are immaterial because we already ran the numbers to find the absolute minimum energy required using a perfect system and you were unable to demonstrate the amounts of fuel required. Trying to bring up open air pit burning, as if that would help your case, just underscores your inability to understand what we are asking.

It doesn't matter what the stats are if you can't prove what was used in the first place. It's all a dodge.

If you say "they used open pits" then that means you have to show even more fuel than you had already failed to demonstrate.

But wait hold on, did you make a mistake when you said open air pits were an order of magnitude less efficient? What's goin on there, you've said you're proficient at science so you should be able to explain this comment.

I don't know, maybe the degree to which they are less efficient is an order of magnitude, it may be less. It may be more. The precise amount by which open pits are less efficient is not as important as the fact that they are.

 

[Chugger]

I don't know, maybe the degree to which they are less efficient is an order of magnitude, it may be less. It may be more. The precise amount by which open pits are less efficient is not as important as the fact that they are.

This is different than what you said earlier, which is that it was more than 10x

"any kinds of numbers from a closed-crematorium setting would need to be multiplied an order of magnitude, at least."

Did you make a mistake here? Why isn't the number important? If it's 2x less efficient (this would be my guestimate, this is a lot different than 10x, 20x, etc.