The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Linako 2.0]

their racial doctrine of the Slavic subhuman.

I keep hearing this myth, but it really holds no water.
If this were the case then why did they have Croatia as an ally? Why isn't there extensive rants about slavs in Mein Kampf?
The closest thing we have to the latter is Hitler pointing out how Chaotic the Parlament in Vienna was, amd everyone knew about that, even Mark Twain.

 

[mgc]

If this were the case then why did they have Croatia as an ally?

In terms of the official ideological explanation for this, the Nazis claimed that Croats were not slavs but Germanic. This view was also endorsed by Ante Pavelić , the head of the Croatian Ustashe regime, who wrote that "the Croats are not Slavs" but "a Germanic people." https://books.google.de/books?id=a9...right&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=pavelic&f=false

Pavelić and the Ustashe engaged in a genocide of Serbs, which was justified in part on the basis of Serbian racial inferiority.

The Nazis also claimed that Bulgarians (Bulgaria being another Nazi ally) were not Slavs but Turkic. (Yes, the Nazis thought Turks were racially superior to Slavs.)

Why isn't there extensive rants about slavs in Mein Kampf?

There are lol. You just have not read Mein Kampf. And he calls for the ethnic cleansing of Poles in the less-read sequel to Mein Kampf, Zweites Buch (this ethnic cleansing policy was carried out by the Germans during the war, with Polish gentile children like pic related murdered in Auschwitz after being ethnically cleansed).

 

[Aves]

mrolonzo,

You aren’t understanding our point. Your articles say that the number of Jews who were in nazi control were lower, but that doesn’t change our question :

Where are the witness testimonies, among other documentation, of these Jews (and other groups) who were transported around, whether east or west?

Let’s assume you are right on the koeherr report. He overestimated the numbers, and it’s actually about 1.5 million, or let’s say 1 million Jews. Why does there exist no witness testimony of these 1 million Jews? If I wanted to push my narrative, I could easily find a bunch of Jews talking about the nazis killing their families. Can you do the same for Jews? There exist many polish witnesses taking about this. One girl just talked about how she hid a Jew away and saw Gestapo members take Jews off to camps. She herself wasn’t deported or forced anywhere, yet she still was interviewed.

Another polish girl was deported and forced into labor, and she also had a story to tell. Why not the same for Jews?

 

[Linako 2.0]

There are lol. You just have not read Mein Kampf.

I have a copy of Mein Kampf here with me and I've read it, show me where the rants about slavs are.

And he calls for the ethnic cleansing of Poles in the less-read sequel to Mein Kampf, Zweites Buch

Ok, where?

Polish gentile children like pic related murdered in Auschwitz after being ethnically cleansed).

Appeal to emotion, no proof of them being murdered.

 

[mgc]

I have a copy of Mein Kampf here with me and I've read it, show me where the rants about slavs are.

See attached

Ok, where?

I found an English translation of Zweites Buch. https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-LJ6TYTWXd-mi-Hxg/Zweites Buch (Hitler's Secret Book)_djvu.txt

Here is the relevant quotation (bolding mine).

The Folkish State, conversely, must under no conditions annex Poles with the intention of wanting to make Germans out of them some day. On the contrary, it must muster the determination either to seal off these alien racial elements, so that the blood of its own Folk will not be corrupted again, or it must without further ado remove them and hand over the vacated territory to its own National Comrades.

So Hitler here is calling for either the segregation (presumably through some kind of ghettoization scheme) or ethnic cleansing of Poles from the German Lebensraum. Why? Because Poles constitute an "alien racial element" and integrating Poles with Germans would "corrupt" . . . "the blood" of the German race.

 

[Linako 2.0]

See attached

Not an argument, I asked specifically where in Mein Kampf he rants against slavs.
Edit: holy shit that meme is poorly formatted and unnecessarily long, I'm not reading this until it is properly compressed

The Folkish State, conversely, must under no conditions annex Poles with the intention of wanting to make Germans out of them some day. On the contrary, it must muster the determination either to seal off these alien racial elements, so that the blood of its own Folk will not be corrupted again, or it must without further ado remove them and hand over the vacated territory to its own National Comrades.

>remove them and hand over the vacated territory to its own National Comrades.
So deportations, got it. but none of it is extermination

> seal off these alien racial elements, so that the blood of its own Folk will not be corrupted again
Again, deportations to prevent Germans from losing their self identity to foreign elements, there is nothing wrong here.

 

[mgc]

So you are cool with the German ethnic cleansing of Poles? And the kidnapping and trafficking of Polish children to Auschwitz?

Got it. It is interesting to see how neo-nazis do not care at all about white people and white children. All they care about is making their Nazi LARP/costume party work. They are willing to overlook any kind of Nazi atrocities against European gentiles (mostly Slavs) without blinking an eye.

Also, despite your spin (Germans do not want to "lose their self identity"), it is clear that the passage in Zweites Buch contemplates a racial—not merely cultural—difference between Poles and Germans. Hitler literally calls them an alien racial element and says mixing with them would corrupt the "blood" of the German Volk.

 

[Linako 2.0]

Appeal to emotion, not an argument.
You're acting like the other side did any better in the war.

 

[Linako 2.0]

Hmmm, gotta edit posts without saying so you can cram in more insults, huh?

 

[mgc]

You're acting like the other side did any better in the war.

The other side engaged in bestial war crimes - nuking cities, firebombing campaign, brutal ethnic cleansing of traditional Eastern-European German populations after the war, and many more. Why do you all assume I am defending them?

I would certainly argue they were much less bad than the Nazis, but that is a very low bar to clear, as the Nazis were easily the most savage regime in modern history.

 

[Linako 2.0]

as the Nazis were easily the most savage regime in modern history.

you say that, but then I remember the Khemer Rogue, the USSR, Israel, North Korea and the United States of America.

 

[Bonesjones]

Guys communists only killed hundreds of millions of people on purpose and on accident. It's totally forgivable because they weren't RACIST.

 

[Linako 2.0]

North Korea and the Khmer Rogue are/were vile, murderous regimes, but they did not attempt to wipe out entire ethnic groups,

The Khmer Rogue did try to wipe out their own ethnic groups, the same can be said currently about America

Nazis attempted to wipe out Jews, Poles, etc.

By deporting them out of the country where they can do their own thing.

do you still deny that they had anti-Slavic animus and ethnically cleansed Slavs?

Yeah, 'cause it didn't happen.

 

[FlamingPie]

North Korea and the Khmer Rogue are/were vile, murderous regimes, but they did not attempt to wipe out entire ethnic groups...

Last time I checked, wasn't minorites in Cambodia one of Pol Pot's targets? If you weren't Cambodian, off to the killing fields you go.

 

[mrolonzo]

So you are cool with the German ethnic cleansing of Poles? And the kidnapping and trafficking of Polish children to Auschwitz?

Got it. It is interesting to see how neo-nazis do not care at all about white people and white children. All they care about is making their Nazi LARP/costume party work. They are willing to overlook any kind of Nazi atrocities against European gentiles (mostly Slavs) without blinking an eye.

Also, despite your spin (Germans do not want to "lose their self identity"), it is clear that the passage in Zweites Buch contemplates a racial—not merely cultural—difference between Poles and Germans. Hitler literally calls them an alien racial element and says mixing with them would corrupt the "blood" of the German Volk.

Sorry no dice. Hitler did indeed want to re arrange Europe, at the same time he respected slavvic Europeans and even went to the Polish leaders state funeral.

 

[mgc]

Pie and Oglooger were quite right to call me out re Khmer Rouge, which is an example of a non-Nazi regime that not only commited genocide, but actually attempted to exterminate an entire ethnic group. (This is not the same thing; most genocides do not involve the wholesale attempt to wipe out an ethnic group, but simply targeted and systematic killings of civilians within an ethnic group.)

The Muslim minority in Cambodia, who were certainly targeted for elimination, were a separate ethno-religious group (Chams), not merely Cambodian Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chams

So the Khmer Rouge genocide did involve an attempt to eliminate entirely (not through killing in all cases, but through killing and cultural genocide) an ethnic group, namely the Chams. Not knowing enough about the subject, I assumed the Cambodian Muslims were just differentiated by religion.

 

[mrolonzo]

Question for Zo on Treblinka -

Attached is a document (this one via Holocaust controversies) that Himmler sent to Himmler listing a number of Jews who had been executed within a certain time frame and certain territories.

Why does Himmler list the Bialystok Jews (many of whom were sent to Treblinka) as having been executed? I thought Treblinka was a transit camp?

Why would Himmler (who was not at Treblinka in the relevant period) assume the (Bialystok) Jews sent there were killed, if Treblinka was merely a "transit camp"?

Also odd how the Stroop Report says the same thing - Jews sent to Treblinka are executed.

This looks like the usual exaggerated reports and is given to this thread without any historical provenance as if no actual scholar had reviewed it yet.

As for the Stroop report, you already know revisionists don't take it seriously.

I should note (in response to both Pie and Oglooger) that my statement about the Khmer ROgue was egregiously wrong. The Cham Muslim minority in Cambodia, who were certainly targeted for extermination, consider themselves as separate ethno-religious group, not merely Cambodian Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chams

A good reminder to stay focused on issues about which you know.

This was simply too big a blunder for you to avoid, thus the quick correction. Pie and oglooger's point stands.

 

[Linako 2.0]

Since History Speaks tried to post his own shitty long meme, I will post some better memes for the enjoyment of the readers of this thread.

 

[mgc]

This looks like the usual exaggerated reports and is given to this thread without any historical provenance as if no actual scholar had reviewed it yet.

As for the Stroop report, you already know revisionists don't take it seriously.

So you are saying the document is faked? Or are you saying Himmler lied and the Jews of Bialystok sent to Treblinka were not killed?

 

[mrolonzo]

So you are saying the document is faked? Or are you saying Himmler lied and the Jews of Bialystok sent to Treblinka were not killed?

If you won't even tell us about its historical significance, how revisionists treat it, how exterminationists treat it but instead want to simply foist it on us I don't even see why it should be addressed do you?

It looks like again you just want to mess around with us. You didn't even bring it to codoh did you?