The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Bonesjones]

1. Do you have a good reason for touching a stroller like Koch had for being at the camp?

2. Shrunken heads you say? Remember Starship troopers?!

Do you want to know more?

Its funny that he gives innocuous "evidence" for a heinous crime. I guess long jumping to conclusions is normal behavior for him. Blood on a stroller? Couldn't be ketchup or from a cut, it has to be baby rape. Just like the holocaust, couldn't be anything less, has to be it.

 

[mgc]

I have attached my original copies of two other Goebbels diary entries that Zo should respond to. (Note to Zo - If you cannot come up with an explanation for these by yourself, you should at least provide us some copypasta from your daddy Mattogno).

27 March, 1942 (Two excerpts regarding the Jews deported to the Reinhardt camps, bold mine)

Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government are now being deported eastward. The procedure is quite barbaric and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will be left of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 percent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 percent can be used for forced labor . . .

A judgment is being made on the Jews that, while barbaric, they fully deserve. The prophesy that the Führer made about them for bringing about a new World War is beginning to be realized in the most horrible way. . . It is a struggle of life-and-death between the Aryan race and the Jewish bacillus.

Does this sound "benign" (to use your word) Zo? Does being "liquidated" and enslaved and condemned "in the most horrible way" sound like "resettlement?

Another diary entry, from 14 March 1945

Once you have the power, you must kill these Jews like rats. In Germany, thank god, we have thoroughly taken care of that.

 

[Stan]

@mrolonzo you are not answering my question.
If the Nazis were actually nice to the Jews, if they were all resettled “to the East” like you believe, then why does Goebbel’s own diary contradict you? Why is the guy who was responsible for the whole propaganda machine publicly saying the Jews deserved nothing less than total destruction? What’s the point if you’re actually being really nice to the Jews behind the scenes?

 

[mrolonzo]

I have attached my original copies of two other Goebbels diary entries that Zo should respond to. (Note to Zo - If you cannot come up with an explanation for these by yourself, you should at least provide us some copypasta from your daddy Mattogno).

27 March, 1942 (Two excerpts regarding the Jews deported to the Reinhardt camps, bold mine)


Does this sound "benign" (to use your word) Zo? Does being "liquidated" and enslaved and condemned "in the most horrible way" sound like "resettlement?

Another diary entry, from 14 March 1945

I take it you didn't read the articles I gave above?

Don't come back until you do.

@mrolonzo you are not answering my question.
If the Nazis were actually nice to the Jews, if they were all resettled “to the East” like you believe, then why does Goebbel’s own diary contradict you? Why is the guy who was responsible for the whole propaganda machine publicly saying the Jews deserved nothing less than total destruction? What’s the point if you’re actually being really nice to the Jews behind the scenes?

Go away and read what I give you.



You are both very naughty boys.

 

[Chugger]

let's reframe a bit

what I want to do is team up with you revisionists and compile a list of the best "counter" evidence to the Holocaust. Something like a revisionist version of this list

Since we have no idea what happened to the millions of "resettled" Jews from Poland, Western Europe, and in the German controlled East, we cannot disprove the Holocaust by providing a convincing counter narrative.

But we have other evidence. @mrolonzo has provided some, and we can continue, using Holocaust Handbooks as a reference

so far we have--

1. numerous documents showing Nazis took steps to preserve their labor force in Auschwitz, which included Jews (Healthcare in Auschwitz)

2. A pledge low-ranking SS guards took that they couldn't kill any inmate (presumably including Jews) without authorization from Himmler

3. The case of Johann Meisslein, a construction supervisor who ordered a shooting and got 3 months in jail for "abuse of authority"

4. ghettoization policy document that says "purely vexatious actions" should be abstained from, but that "possible actions against Jews should not be hindered" as long as they didn't cause disorder and weren't done in a purely self serving manner (rather revenge I guess?)

 

[mrolonzo]

let's reframe a bit

what I want to do is team up with you revisionists and compile a list of the best "counter" evidence to the Holocaust. Something like a revisionist version of this list

Since we have no idea what happened to the millions of "resettled" Jews of Poland, Western Europe, and in the German controlled East, we cannot disprove the Holocaust by providing a convincing counter narrative.

But we have other evidence. @mrolonzo has provided some, and we can continue, using Holocaust Handbooks as a reference

so far we have--

1. numerous documents showing Nazis took steps to preserve their labor force in Auschwitz, which included Jews (Healthcare in Auschwitz)
2. A pledge low-ranking SS guards took that they couldn't kill any inmate (presumably including Jews) without authorization from Himmler

3. The case of Johann Meisslein, a construction supervisor who ordered a shooting and got 3 months in jail for "abuse of authority"

4. ghettoization policy document that says "purely vexatious actions" should be abstained from, but that "possible actions against Jews should not be hindered" as long as they didn't cause disorder and weren't done in a purely self serving manner

Are you trying to reverse the burden of proof again Chugs?

And what sort of jew killing do you think would cause disorder chuggers??

 

[Aves]

1. Do you have a good reason for touching a stroller like Koch had for being at the camp?

2. Shrunken heads you say? Remember Starship troopers?!

Do you want to know more?

Its funny that he gives innocuous "evidence" for a heinous crime. I guess long jumping to conclusions is normal behavior for him. Blood on a stroller? Couldn't be ketchup or from a cut, it has to be baby rape. Just like the holocaust, couldn't be anything less, has to be it.

I think I know what the problem is in this debate. You guys think that the nazis didn't actually intentionally kill any Jew or other prisoners, right?

I was working with the assumption that nazi murders were a thing, whereas you guys just straight up believe they didn't murder anyone. Lemmingwise may deny gas chambers, but he still agrees the nazis did murder many. You guys don't believe in murders in the first place.

I'm not going to go into a much longer debate on the truth of holocaust murders etc., so I'll just respond one more time.

Shrunken heads

There is a decent post on Holocaust Controversies. It's the latest one, and it is on shrunken heads stuff. Don't have the link on me, but it's just the latest one posted.

Couldn't be ketchup or from a cut, it has to be baby rape. Just like the holocaust, couldn't be anything less, has to be it.

You missed my point. Witnesses did claim to hear or see some kind of lampshade. They believed it to be human skin (blood on stroller) but DNA evidence shows it to be either goat skin or cellulose (ketchup or a cut). So your point just adds to what I am saying.

Hey look they proved the lampshades weren't real in court and here we have a link saying they were totally real. I thought you said she was innocent? Which is it? You want it both ways, you get neither, you fucking retard.

Jesus I make an awful offhand joke and now you think blood on a stroller is evidence of baby rape? What the fuck is going on in your head?

Hey look they proved the lampshades weren't real in court and here we have a link saying they were totally real.

The link claims they were real, according to this senate committee, but without further evidence I don't believe the lampshades to be real. I've already said the DNA evidence shows it to be goat skin. The link even said this.

"Well, it turned out actually that it was goat flesh. But at the trial it was still human flesh. It was almost impossible for her to have gotten a fair trial."

In this case I just disagree with the link's claim. Without DNA evidence I don't see reason to believe the lampshades has being made of human skin.

I bet Jones is gonna call me a denier.

Either way, I'm too busy to reply again. Have fun talking with Chugger and History Speaks you two. I may come back later if I'm feeling it.

 

[mrolonzo]

I think I know what the problem is in this debate. You guys think that the nazis didn't actually intentionally kill any Jew or other prisoners, right?

I was working with the assumption that nazi murders were a thing, whereas you guys just straight up believe they didn't murder anyone. Lemmingwise may deny gas chambers, but he still agrees the nazis did murder many. You guys don't believe in murders in the first place.

I'm not going to go into a much longer debate on the truth of holocaust murders etc., so I'll just respond one more time.

Shrunken heads

There is a decent post on Holocaust Controversies. It's the latest one, and it is on shrunken heads stuff. Don't have the link on me, but it's just the latest one posted.

Couldn't be ketchup or from a cut, it has to be baby rape. Just like the holocaust, couldn't be anything less, has to be it.

You missed my point. Witnesses did claim to hear or see some kind of lampshade. They believed it to be human skin (blood on stroller) but DNA evidence shows it to be either goat skin or cellulose (ketchup or a cut). So your point just adds to what I am saying.

Hey look they proved the lampshades weren't real in court and here we have a link saying they were totally real.

The link claims they were real, according to this senate committee, but without further evidence I don't believe the lampshades to be real. I've already said the DNA evidence shows it to be goat skin. The link even said this.

"Well, it turned out actually that it was goat flesh. But at the trial it was still human flesh. It was almost impossible for her to have gotten a fair trial."

In this case I just disagree with the link's claim. Without DNA evidence I don't see reason to believe the lampshades has being made of human skin.

I bet Jones is gonna call me a denier.

You didn't actually just answer my simple first question.

Anyway,

Aves why do you read Holocaust controversies and not codoh?

Just a simple question.

 

[Chugger]

Are you trying to reverse the burden of proof again Chugs?

no. all of that evidence I got from you. what more do you have? let's build up this list buddy

And what sort of jew killing do you think would cause disorder chuggers??

The Kovno Garage Massacre - Lithuanian nationalists clubbing Jewish Lithuanians to death, 1941 - Rare Historical Photos

During the Garage Massacre, carried out before the invading Germans had actually set up their administration, 40-60 people were killed.

rarehistoricalphotos.com

 

[mgc]

Zo, Do you realize how pathetic it is to just link to websites without even being able to paraphrase and recalibrate their arguments in your own terms? It makes you look like a brainless cultist citing some holy book.

 

[Bonesjones]

I think I know what the problem is in this debate. You guys think that the nazis didn't actually intentionally kill any Jew or other prisoners, right?

I've said repeatedly what I think and what my aims are, try not being a retard and keep things straight.

I was working with the assumption that nazi murders were a thing, whereas you guys just straight up believe they didn't murder anyone. Lemmingwise may deny gas chambers, but he still agrees the nazis did murder many. You guys don't believe in murders in the first place.

I'm not going to go into a much longer debate on the truth of holocaust murders etc., so I'll just respond one more time.

Murder is an unlawful killing, how do you seperate that out from regular war killing? Or do you just blame the loser for everything?

There is a decent post on Holocaust Controversies. It's the latest one, and it is on shrunken heads stuff. Don't have the link on me, but it's just the latest one posted.

You mean the people involved in forging documents?

You missed my point. Witnesses did claim to hear or see some kind of lampshade. They believed it to be human skin (blood on stroller) but DNA evidence shows it to be either goat skin or cellulose (ketchup or a cut). So your point just adds to what I am saying.

No I got your point exactly, your logic is backwards. You fucking retard. If someone says a restaurant is serving human meat, it's on you to prove its people, not on them to prove it's not. That's how reality works. You can't make extreme claims just because, and eyewitness accounts mean nothing when they are literally from the other side of a war.

The link claims they were real, according to this senate committee, but without further evidence I don't believe the lampshades to be real. I've already said the DNA evidence shows it to be goat skin. The link even said this.

"Hey guys this act of propaganda was disproven, that means it still definitely could have happened, we just can't prove it."

"Well, it turned out actually that it was goat flesh. But at the trial it was still human flesh. It was almost impossible for her to have gotten a fair trial."

In this case I just disagree with the link's claim. Without DNA evidence I don't see reason to believe the lampshades has being made of human skin.

I bet Jones is gonna call me a denier.

You are literally this meme:

 

[mrolonzo]

no. all of that evidence I got from you. what more do you have? let's build up this list buddy

The Kovno Garage Massacre - Lithuanian nationalists clubbing Jewish Lithuanians to death, 1941 - Rare Historical Photos

During the Garage Massacre, carried out before the invading Germans had actually set up their administration, 40-60 people were killed.

rarehistoricalphotos.com

Right so Germans doing widespread killing of the families of jews they wanted to work for them would cause disorder. So that's out. Therefore the holocaust in the east is out, this is confirmed by the lack of bodies.

If you want to build a list I suggest you contribute to the holocaust encyclopedia being constructed by codoh after the Dachau and sonderkommado studies are completed. Of course in the meantime you can drop by codoh and ask them what they think.

Zo, Do you realize how pathetic it is to just link to websites without even being able to paraphrase and recalibrate their arguments in your own terms? It makes you look like a brainless cultist citing some holy book.

No it's just good form and perfectly acceptable here. You seem to not understand that you and I disagree on many fundamentals of good honest conduct. But that's by the by.

If you disagree I suggest you write your own essay. This will begin your first creditable foray into the true historical research of this fascinating, though intensely difficult subject.

I've said repeatedly what I think and what my aims are, try not being a retard and keep things straight.

Murder is an unlawful killing, how do you seperate that out from regular war killing? Or do you just blame the loser for everything?

You mean the people involved in forging documents?

No I got your point exactly, your logic is backwards. You fucking retard. If someone says a restaurant is serving human meat, it's on you to prove its people, not on them to prove it's not. That's how reality works. You can't make extreme claims just because, and eyewitness accounts mean nothing when they are literally from the other side of a war.

"Hey guys this act of propaganda was disproven, that means it still definitely could have happened, we just can't prove it."

You are literally this meme:

You put me off my dinner you swine!!!

 

[Chugger]

Right so Germans doing widespread killing of the families of jews they wanted to work for them would cause disorder. So that's out.

Well killing them in a more discreet and less barbaric fashion might also work

Therefore the holocaust in the east is out, this is confirmed by the lack of bodies.

If you want to build a list I suggest you contribute to the holocaust encyclopedia being constructed by codoh after the Dachau and sonderkommado studies are completed. Of course in the meantime you can drop by codoh and ask them what they think.

well I'm just worried about the documentary stuff right now. are you tapped out? surely you're not, because otherwise it would be silly to think you have a strong case on the documentary side if these items are your best evidence . let's build the case good buddy

 

[mrolonzo]

Well killing them in a more discreet and less barbaric fashion might also work


well I'm just worried about the documentary stuff right now. are you tapped out? surely you're not, because otherwise it would be silly to think you have a strong case on the documentary side if these items are your best evidence . let's build the case good buddy

1. Ah gas vans in the east now!!!


2. What exactly are you after?


Anyway think about what you're really wanting to say. Take your time.

Then say it briefly. Maybe I can help you bring a case you can bring to codoh.

And maybe explain why you're really here. That's up to you though. Not expecting anything.

 

[Chugger]

2. What exactly are you after?

1. doing a solid for revisionists

2. hanging out with my good buddy (you)

3. will you answer my question about the positive documentary evidence revisionists have? Are you really content with the list?

are you tapped out? surely you're not, because otherwise it would be silly to think you have a strong case on the documentary side if these items are your best evidence

 

[mgc]

The only thing Zo can say in regards to our documentary evidence is "Mattogno explains it". He then provides a link to an entire book that often never addresses the specific documents we cite.

The guy clearly cannot think for himself so I do not know how much purpose there is to engage him further.

 

[mrolonzo]

1. doing a solid for revisionists

2. hanging out with my good buddy (you)

3. will you answer my question about the positive documentary evidence revisionists have? Are you really content with the list?

1. Yawn.

2. Yawn.

3. Go read The Real Case for Auschwitz and get back to me.

4. HS, same for you. And of course the recent part 1 and part 2 article.

5. You both have your homework assignments. Now run along.

 

[Chugger]

hey man I know I rib on you sometimes, but seriously--why wouldn't a list like this be a good idea? the point of the list would be to quickly show people how strong the revisionist case is, just like HC blog was trying to do here . and who knows, I just might convince myself while I work on it (though to tell you the truth what you have so far ain't too impressive )

you said earlier that you thought the documentary case was much stronger for revisionism, right? You have Auschwitz documents that blow the whole thing up? Some invoices and bischoff documents

we can add them to the list

btw I'm banned on codoh, and have no intention of returning there as a sock puppet

 

[Bonesjones]

You want us to do your work for you, because you are a worthless waste of flesh.

 

[Chugger]

You want us to do your work for you, because you are a worthless waste of flesh.

why do you call [making a list of all the best revisionist evidence] "my work"?