The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[mrolonzo]

This isn't particularly compelling evidence he was instructed to say they were gassed. We can agree to disagree on this point I guess.

If it it says this I assume it is a typo. The bodies found were definitely preserved, and probably not at 135 degrees, which would require constant heating

Yup. I wasn't permitted to continue my discussion in that other thread and I don't remember the reason given


I'm just Gl0spana and never said anything different


substantiate and we'll circle back to it as I've told you



Yes you are wrong, the document exists. https://phdn.org/histgen/einsatzgruppen-shoah-par-balles/kubelohse310742facsimile.html#page1

You do a disservice to your movement and yourself by saying things that are wrong. You should be more careful.

But moving back to this document, Mattogno doesn't say it is fake. he doesn't say extermination/elimination/liquidation of all non-working Jews in the area are code words for resettlement. he says they were massacred. what do you make of this?

View attachment 3552560

1. When were you banned? In any case, the problem was explained to you was it or was it not? Because I literally gave you the thread where this is clearly explained.

2. Are you Matthew Cockerill?

3. I only do a disservice to my movement by saying things that are unsubstantiated when I fully know different.

4. In fact he says what is quoted by you in the bottom of the attached page, anti partisan warfare.

5. Further, we have the actual orders from August 41, what do you make of them? see attached;

 

[Stabmaster Arson]

Another musical interlude.

 

[mrolonzo]

Zo.

Since we aren't making any ground on this debate, let me try something different. I'm going to make a statement below, you tell me if you agree or disagree on this statement regarding human lampshades.

"It is entirely possible that Ilse Koch ordered the killing of prisoners and turned them into lampshades. Many witnesses attest to this. However, due to a lack of evidence, such as the fact that no human skin was found on these lampshades, we cannot say with certainty that lampshades made out of human skin were made for Ilse Koch or anyone else."

Yes or no, do you agree with what I am saying above? This is what I have been trying to say during our debate. If you agree, then we can just stop our debate.

No it's not entirely possible. Its tendenciously possible. Is that fair?

 

[Stan]

See, this is why I don't even try in this thread. Anything that doesn't agree with you is just dimsissed with "a bloo bloo bloo, these nazi sources don't count".
Don't @ me, faggot.

@Stabmaster Arson if I can’t use Yad Vashem or US Holocaust Museum collections to support my point of view about then it’s not too much to ask you to refrain from pushing the work of Holocaust deniers LARPing as academics in support of yours. I’ll @ whoever I want

As I said before, the reason for the accusation could have been for numerous reasons.

The witnesses could have been intentionally lying, or they actually saw lampshades made of some kind of skin, but Ilse Koch decided to just use goat skin. Many witnesses say that they say Koch kill specific prisoners for their tattoos, and other witnesses say they saw lampshades made of skin with tattoos.

And they weren't "lying." It's entirely possible that Koch DID turn people into lampshades. But since courts require evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, she was found not guilty.

Whether or not she turned people into lampshades has no effect on the holocaust.

The skin lampshade thing is like the debate over how fast you can *really* turn over bodies in a crematory. If you hyperfocus on this one molehill and how it’s nawt truuu then you can ignore the mountain of horrible things that did happen which led people to believe Nazis were making lampshades from skin and soap from corpse fat.

How much horrible shit do you have to be caught red-handed with for the Americans to say “hey, that lampshade, what’s it made of? Were you guys doing some Ed Gein shit in this room?” The Nazis did a lot of horrible shit that the deniers don’t even contest, and that brutality is why these rumors exist

 

[Stabmaster Arson]

@Stabmaster Arson if I can’t use Jewish sources to support my point of view

Fuuuuuuuck off.

 

[Stan]

Fuuuuuuuck off.

You first! The Jewish sources have the benefit of actually being true. They don't lie about their credentials and publish solely to their friends zine cause they're laughed out the door of real academia.

 

[mr.moon1488]

I honestly thought this was elaborate shitposting until I saw this.

 

[Chugger]

When your own link denies any factual evidence, it proves you are a fucking idiot.

It doesn't, you're not reading hard enough.

So its ok to use sloppy evidence to convict people now? Anyone claiming to preserve bodies at 135 degrees is a fucking idiot and a liar.

Pressac's report (from the 80s) was never used to convict people. Like I said I assume this was a typo, probably made by the translator

2. Are you Matthew Cockerill?

Are you Abraham Lincoln?

3. I only do a disservice to my movement by saying things that are unsubstantiated when I fully know different.

well you were wrong so the disservice has already been done

4. In fact he says what is quoted by you in the bottom of the attached page, anti partisan warfare.

Well to clarify, all non-working Jews in the area were killed for being partisan supporters or future partisan supporters, according to the document. And in the future once the workers were no longer needed, they too would be killed. Sound correct?

here's the document again

Further, we have the actual orders from August 41, what do you make of them? see attached;

Where does it say in those orders that Jews were not to be killed by SS police?

According to orthodox history, they were ghettoized (this is the part the document discusses) and killed in waves, with some being preserved for labor

 

[Kermit Jizz]

You first! The Jewish sources have the benefit of actually being true. They don't lie about their credentials and publish solely to their friends zine cause they're laughed out the door of real academia.

I wonder what those (((academics))) would have in their early life entries?
Probably a bunch of fucking kikes, shocker.
Not that there's anything wrong with that though.

 

[Stabmaster Arson]

I honestly thought this was elaborate shitposting until I saw this.

The only response to this thread is to shitpost. Occasionally, drop an opinion, but don't engage. Like I said in the other thread they started about this, I grew tired of this debate in 2004 roughly. Any real attempts to engage are met with ad hom or fuck your sources. They never debate the content of anything, only disparage the source.

We are on page 170 of this thread, and it has gone the exact same way every other thread, anywhere, has gone about this where people don't get banned for discussing it. No nazis BTFO just yet.
This thread will go on, and on, and on.

 

[mrolonzo]

Are you Abraham Lincoln?

Like Lazarus?

I take it, your Matthew's friend. Looks like codoh thinks you've been sock puppeting.

well you were wrong so the disservice has already been done

Obviously not.

Well to clarify, all non-working Jews in the area were killed for being partisan supporters or future partisan supporters, according to the document. And in the future once the workers were no longer needed, they too would be killed. Sound correct?

here's the document again

View attachment 3552930

Clear vague interpretation of text without reference to all other documents for a surreptitious purpose.

Where does it say in those orders that Jews were not to be killed by SS police?

According to orthodox history, they were ghettoized (this is the part the document discusses) and killed in waves, with some being preserved for labor

Vexatious actions banned.

Harsh opposition to street thuggery against Jews.

Orthodox history is clearly explained;

 

[mrolonzo]

The only response to this thread is to shitpost. Occasionally, drop an opinion, but don't engage. Like I said in the other thread they started about this, I grew tired of this debate in 2004 roughly. Any real attempts to engage are met with ad hom or fuck your sources. They never debate the content of anything, only disparage the source.

We are on page 170 of this thread, and it has gone the exact same way every other thread, anywhere, has gone about this where people don't get banned for discussing it. No nazis BTFO just yet.
This thread will go on, and on, and on.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=__VQX2Xn7tI

To be clear, the serious revisionists dont reject Jewish sources outright per se, instead all sources are examined. This makes sense, being a jew does not make you automatically biased or deceptive. Many holocaust authors are not Jews.

The real problem is that where revisionists read orthodox historians the opposition tries it's best to ignore it. They dismiss it outright. This is not to say that Mattogno, Rudolf et al dont make mistakes. They do, and seek to correct them in later editions.

On this thread we have a number of dedicated holocaust promoters who while trying to tell you what happened haven't even read revisionism.

Think about it, why would these people, these revisionists, want to go through all this and do such enormous work just to mess around? They'd want something they could stand by, dont you think?

 

[Stabmaster Arson]

To be clear, the serious revisionists dont reject Jewish sources outright per se, instead all sources are examined. This makes sense, being a jew does not make you automatically biased or deceptive. Many holocaust authors are not Jews.

I know man, but anything not kosher they won't even examine.
Another musical interlude, uploaded to the site because youtube always removes this.

 

[JohnDoe]

The skin lampshade thing is like the debate over how fast you can *really* turn over bodies in a crematory. If you hyperfocus on this one molehill

I wouldn't call the failure to produce 6 million corpses a 'molehill' and since the excuse is usually that the bodies were cremated then the topic naturally rises in importance.

 

[mrolonzo]

This is worth adding in;

 

[mrolonzo]

I know man, but anything not kosher they won't even examine.
Another musical interlude, uploaded to the site because youtube always removes this.


panzerlied-battle-version-freedownloadvideo.net.mp4

Well. They will examine it on the sly of course. They'll look for things they can exploit. You'll however, not see an actual serious book written in response. For to respond would be to acknowledge.

 

[Stan]

What's the point of Holocaust denial? I know the deniers in the thread don't really care that much about death camps or gas chambers either way; you guys aren't diehard crematoria nerds or lampshade truthers in any other arena but this one. The thing you're all unwilling to say, cause it spoils the debate for you, is that you kinda hate Jews, and the state of Israel. You really don't like them, although I daresay most of you know very little about Jews. This is why you don't want the Holocaust to be true, despite ample evidence that it did happen. All the reasons I've heard so far to explain why the Holocaust did not happen reference events that happened after the Holocaust; the formation of Israel, the annoying liberal media, the (((globalist))) conspiracy. It's like you think the Jews made up the Holocaust to win arguments on Twitter. When you're a particular denier gets to you, you accuse them of being paid shills for a shadow illuminati.

Do you understand how ridiculous you sound? It's close to "the government is sending me messages thru the radio" levels of schizoposting.

There's a few kinds of Holocaust denier: the fake academic (see Mattogno et al, David Irving, etc.) who decide to break into fame by espousing Holocaust Denialism because it granted them an audience willing to buy everything they write about that subject. Mattogno is interesting, he publishes exclusively to the genre; he's used his life's talent to twist excerpts of historical documents out of context, and sometimes just straight-up lie, in order to support the fairy tale of "resettlement to the East". That's where Olonzo finds chestnuts like "Auschwitz had great healthcare". These careercows formed a little vanity publishing circle with the driest, most academic names they could think of in the hopes of fooling people on the fence that this was a genuine, peer-reviewed historical quarterly. Perhaps they believe what they write, but they are also clearly genre writing for an audience of Holocaust deniers. Their motivation to denying the Holocaust is mostly financial. This sort numbers a few dozen.

The next layer is the Dylann Roofs, who read this crap and decide that the Jews ruined everything. This demographic of Holocaust denier is the kind of guy who would march around Charlottesville with a tiki torch yelling about the Great Replacement. These guys can be hazardous because they're usually young and young men will take risks older men do not. They actually believe a nationalist, conformist government that outlaws communism and homosexuality would be a good thing, and the only reason they can't have it is because of the whiny liberal Jews crying about "muh Holocaust". Their motivation to deny the Holocaust is emotional and political; they want it not to exist so it can't have happened. It's exactly like "Stop the Steal"; they didn't like the election result so they were willing to storm the fucking congress building. These guys are weens, they're shitposters, and some of them are unbelievably jaded and indifferent. This kind numbers a few hundred to a few thousand.

The last component is the one most represented in this thread, which is the "your uncle from Peoria" types who keep a lid on it in public and then quietly play the Axis side in World of Tanks. They're not motherfuckers, they're not bad people (I don't think much of anyone is "bad people") but they just feel like Hitler and Germany is getting an unfair share of guilt and blame. Surely the Holocaust couldn't have been all that bad; because the accepted history is so unbelievably awful, maybe the Jews are just exaggerating things a bit. Surely the truth lies somewhere in the middle. To them, denial is an intellectual exercise, like a hobby. You can read the books and things from the first part and "decide for oneself" what happened in Auschwitz. This sort is exceedingly common, to the point that I end up running into them at the Cradle and don't figure it out 'til I'm two drinks in. I want to believe they're harmless.

 

[Stan]

I honestly thought this was elaborate shitposting until I saw this.
View attachment 3553007

You really showed me, "Mr Moon 1488". Time to go rethink my whole life again.

ETA: Oh no I was mocked by an elder of the Kiwi Farms. Am I supposed to apologize or something?

 

[Stan]

I wonder what those (((academics))) would have in their early life entries?
Probably a bunch of fucking kikes, shocker.
Not that there's anything wrong with that though.

Welcome back, friendo! I'm loving this Honest Content.

 

[Bonesjones]

The skin lampshade thing is like the debate over how fast you can *really* turn over bodies in a crematory.

Yes pointing out obvious lies that deny basic reality is exactly like other lies, good job Rabbi.

If you hyperfocus on this one molehill and how it’s nawt truuu then you can ignore the mountain of horrible things that did happen which led people to believe Nazis were making lampshades from skin and soap from corpse fat.

If the only molehill you can invent is an obvious fabrication, then where are the other awful things they've done? You have to have a molehill to make a mountain of. Not just endless repetition of your idiocy.

How much horrible shit do you have to be caught red-handed with for the Americans to say “hey, that lampshade, what’s it made of? Were you guys doing some Ed Gein shit in this room?” The Nazis did a lot of horrible shit that the deniers don’t even contest, and that brutality is why these rumors exist

Doing awful shit in a time when literally everyone is doing awful shit doesnt make you guilty of anything but being singled out. Not that you ever acknowledge that.

It doesn't, you're not reading hard enough.

How hard do I have to read before I start finding things that aren't there, exactly? Why can you never do anything but waste people's time?

Pressac's report (from the 80s) was never used to convict people. Like I said I assume this was a typo, probably made by the translator

People are convicted of holocaust denial which is entirely made up of fictional accounts that have no bearing. So you just do your usual pilpul.

"Guys these lies are just honest mistakes BUT they still add up!"