The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

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A big part of his and Mattogno's argument relies on a deceitful and equivocal use of the term "able bodied." Mainstream historians are not referring to 20 year old men with the flu when they talk about "non-able-bodied Jews," but those incapable of work due to their age or disability or incurable disease.

As for me, I do not understand why there is a contradiction between wanting to exploit able-bodied Jews for labor (which would mean feeding them, patching up injuries they sustain on the job, etc) and killing non-able bodied Jews. Clearly a murderer could also prefer to exploit his victims economically before killing them.

Also, Nazi policy could change throughout the war in light of labor needs. For example, 1942 deportees to the Reinhardt camps were almost all killed, but a substantial minority of deportees to Auschwitz in 1944 were used for labor.
 
And sometimes people in no condition to perform hard labor could still be useful, eg doctors, engineers, or machinists

young children could be useful as well. Mattogno makes a note of this here, but does not mention the reason why most of the children were twins

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Loronzo - how do you explain the fact (as acknowledged by Mattogno) that most of the Hungarian Jewish children still alive in Auschwitz upon liberation were twins? Do you believe this is some kind of mathematically improbable coincidence, or that they (unlike most children, who were killed upon arrival) were preserved by Mengele for medical experiments, as the witnesses say?

Also of note is that there were literally 3 elderly persons still alive in Auschwitz upon liberation. I would guess these were either statistical anamolies (unusually robust persons in their early to mid 70s), or were employed as doctors or some other useful non-manual occupation in the camps.

Of course, the Hungarian Jews only arrived in 1944 and the gassings were called off in late 1944, so that timeline was more favorable to them
 
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Zo, I am still waiting on an answer to my question about Stalinist gulags - were they “benign” places because they had hospitals and released prisoners?

(A good way to reveal the biased reasoning of deniers is to show them that the arguments they use in the context of Holocaust denial appear absurd in another context.)
 
Chugger said:
And sometimes people in no condition to perform hard labor could still be useful, eg doctors, engineers, or machinists

young children could be useful as well. Mattogno makes a note of this here, but does not mention the reason why most of the children were twins

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Crazy how you have endless exceptions to the people supposedly genocided. Why is that? I thought they were so evil they wanted to kill them all even as they lost the war? What happened to your narrative, you being forced to revise it?
 
Bonesjones said:
Crazy how you have endless exceptions to the people supposedly genocided. Why is that?
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when you say endless that implies I think most were exceptions. I'd say probably the Nazis killed 99.9% of the non-employable Jews in their custody, which would mean there were thousands of exceptions. revisionists of course through their diligence have located some of these and now parade them as proof of Nazi beneficence

eg some of the children here that were used for "experiments" (you can make of that what you will)

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Chugger said:
when you say endless that implies I think most were exceptions. I'd say probably the Nazis killed 99.9% of the non-employable Jews in their custody, which would mean there were thousands of exceptions. revisionists of course through their diligence have located some of these and now parade them as proof of Nazi beneficence

eg some of the children here that were used for "experiments" (you can make of that what you will)

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Except you said all people unfit for work were gassed, yet they found over 100 invalids? Lmao. Some genocide. We kept these infantile retards around as a joke, because we are monsters you know. We make the other jews push them around just for fun.
 
The existence of rudimentary health care and food for able-bodied Jews simply proves the Nazi wanted to squeeze more labor out of them. (Mattogno acknowledges that mortality rates of slave laborers in Aushwitz were "sky-high" in 1942, and these rapid deaths of potential workers were economically inefficient from the military-production point of view.)

I mean, do you think the fact that Kamikaze aviators were provided food and health care is evidence that the Japanese military did not intend them to die.? A murderer need not kill his victims right away. He can exploit them for one reason or another before killing them. The employable Jews were exploited for much-needed labor, but the unemployable Jews (living aside a tiny fringe of exceptions) were killed right away, and were not given health care, etc.

Now Zo, I want to hear your take on the Stalinist gulags. does the existence of health care and releases in the gulag system mean they were "benign"?
 
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Chugger said:
where does it say these invalids were even Jews? Kinna report shows there was a different policy with eg Poles

and in the post you quoted I said 99.9% were killed, learn math dog
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Its a miracle of modern history. The schrodinger's jew. People are both Jewish and not Jewish as long as the holocaust narrative needs them to be. I haven't seen deception this devious since the last billion times a jew pretended to be white until they needed not to be.
 
What is really most remarkable is that out of approximately 440,000 Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz in spring and summer of 1944, 578 were still alive in the camp when the camp was liberated mere months later, in January 1945.

Deportations and death marches to other camps do not account for nearly all of the missing hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews. So where did they go?
 
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History Speaks said:
What is really most remarkable is that out of approximately 440,000 Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz in spring and summer of 1944, 578 were still alive in the camp when the camp was liberated mere months later, in January 1945.

Deportations and death marches to other camps only account for a small percentage of the missing hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews. So where did they go?
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How many jews lived in the Soviet Union? Did they even keep track? Maybe the Soviets just gulaged everyone and they died in shallow graves, victim to the greatest ideology that has never been tried before.
 
Bonesjones said:
People are both Jewish and not Jewish as long as the holocaust narrative needs them to be
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You're completely correct that the twins used for "experiments" could have been non-Jews, if that's your point

But as Mattogno pointed out, the Hungarian Jewish children that were found at liberation were mostly twins, so it's a fair deduction to make
Bonesjones said:
How many jews lived in the Soviet Union? Did they even keep track? Maybe the Soviets just gulaged everyone and they died in shallow graves, victim to the greatest ideology
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They did keep track and there was dip in population over the course of WW2. But there is no evidence they genocided the Jews, and a cover up is unlikely given the USSR failed to do so with its other crimes, eg the great purge

you're applying different standards to NS and Soviet regimes, indicative of your bias
 
Chugger said:
You're completely correct that the twins used for "experiments" could have been non-Jews, if that's your point

But as Mattogno pointed out, the Hungarian Jewish children that were found at liberation were mostly twins, so it's a fair deduction to make
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So your list is of jews left alive and also not jews left alive? What are you even trying to say at this point? Sort out your fucking arguments instead of trying to piece together shit. Fucking christ.
Chugger said:
They did keep track and there was dip in population over the course of WW2. But there is no evidence they genocided the Jews, and a cover up is unlikely given the USSR failed to do so with its other crimes, eg the great purge

you're applying different standards to NS and Soviet regimes, indicative of your bias
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See the Soviets didn't genocide anyone, they just killed 60 million people in a completely innocent way. So it doesn't count. Infact it doesn't count so much, you don't even need to figure out what demographics or populations they cover, because you could never hide missing populations in them at all. Definitely not a few million missing jews.
 
Bonesjones said:
So your list is of jews left alive and also not jews left alive?
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no the document is a general labor force report from 1944, just after the hungarian deportation https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/labor-force/19440728/index.html

Bonesjones said:
See the Soviets didn't genocide anyone, they just killed 60 million people
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you should consider why you believe in something for which there is no evidence

but you're not alone in this. Mattogno and co also believe the Soviets did genocide, and hand wave away the 'no evidence' thing

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Chugger said:
the document is a general labor force report from 1944, just after the hungarian deportation https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/labor-force/19440728/index.html
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Good thing they sorted out the shit formatting so it's actually legible, but I guess that's a feature and not a bug.
Chugger said:
you should consider why you believe in something for which there is no evidence
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Lmao. So you've found the evidence required to run the crematory 24/7 for years on end? Or do you just ignore it like always.

See the Soviets didn't document their crimes so they don't exist. The Germans definitely did, if you just ignore all the holes in the story. So clearly the German's are guilty and the Soviets are truly believable.
 
History Speaks said:
Birds of a feather.
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HC blog has done some good stuff on Katyn 'responsibility' denial, it's the same basic arguments (documents faked by politically motivated actors)

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2007/03/and-now-for-something-not-completely.html

Bonesjones said:
So you've found the evidence required to run the crematory 24/7 for years on end?
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the evidence is everywhere, eg in the labor force documents we've been talking about. look at how many were on crematoria duty-- at the same time the Auschwitz death books were recording around 25 per day

they were working day and night. 350 on "disinfection" cleanup duty (entwes can only stand for Entwesung)

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Bonesjones said:
See the Soviets didn't document their crimes so they don't exist. The Germans definitely did, if you just ignore all the holes in the story. So clearly the German's are guilty and the Soviets are truly believable.
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both documented their crimes, and to some extent were able to destroy the evidence

but in both cases not all. so it goes with large scale conspiracies.
 
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