The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Bonesjones]

I’m willing to do that math, but it might be unnecessary. The Nazis themselves estimated the Jewish population in their occupied territory to be 11 million persons in the Wannsee protocol prepared by Eichmann. The report also estimated 35% of those Jews were over age 65 and could be housed in “old-age ghettos”, which didn’t happen.

It was further reported by the Nazis that 40% could be used for forced labor, and the remaining 60% could be “resettled” immediately.

(1.1 x 10*7)x0.60 = 6.6 million. :/

So now the ghettos didn't exist? Or just specifically the "old age ghettos"? If their plan was extermination, why go to the trouble of moving them to camps to kill them instead of just separating the wheat from the chaff and killing the rest on location? So again they are extremely unbelievably evil they disregard all logic. Oh because that argument would leave identifiable mass graves at every spot there were mass collections of jews. Gotta invent something new.

Well that goes to my second question, what makes you think 6 million is wrong?

The lack of physical evidence for their claim.

I was actually reading about some more recent non-invasive archaeological research, but link me. I link and attach for you.

There are international standards for identifying and cataloging mass graves, until they are followed it is only presumed to be one and not positively identified as being one. It's not enough to presuppose, you have to actually excavate and quantify what is actually there. This isn't a huge burden of proof to accept.

If they were interested in "physical evidence" they would be concerned about the lack of physical evidence for the existence of the millions of "disappeared" Jews in the Nazi camp system, including exactly 0 physical or eyewitness evidence for their "resettlement."

"You can't identify jewish people exactly out of the millions of transients during a total war thar means they must be cremated instead even if we can't prove these cremations happened"

One thing that I think some deniers don’t get is the purpose of learning about the holocaust.

The biggest lesson the holocaust provides is that institutions will put opinion over fact as long as it benefits them. How many scholars or universities ignore exonerating evidence they've found? How many of them know it's a lie but publicly support the holocaust narrative? How much funding would they pass up? We know holocaust studies has massive financial support, so not only would you give up that, you'd be faced with lawsuits and jailtime at worst, or more probable, constructive dismissal and social ostracization.

 

[mrolonzo]

So now the ghettos didn't exist? Or just specifically the "old age ghettos"? If their plan was extermination, why go to the trouble of moving them to camps to kill them instead of just separating the wheat from the chaff and killing the rest on location? So again they are extremely unbelievably evil they disregard all logic. Oh because that argument would leave identifiable mass graves at every spot there were mass collections of jews. Gotta invent something new.

The lack of physical evidence for their claim.

There are international standards for identifying and cataloging mass graves, until they are followed it is only presumed to be one and not positively identified as being one. It's not enough to presuppose, you have to actually excavate and quantify what is actually there. This isn't a huge burden of proof to accept.

"You can't identify jewish people exactly out of the millions of transients during a total war thar means they must be cremated instead even if we can't prove these cremations happened"

The biggest lesson the holocaust provides is that institutions will put opinion over fact as long as it benefits them. How many scholars or universities ignore exonerating evidence they've found? How many of them know it's a lie but publicly support the holocaust narrative? How much funding would they pass up? We know holocaust studies has massive financial support, so not only would you give up that, you'd be faced with lawsuits and jailtime at worst, or more probable, constructive dismissal and social ostracization.

On the point about scholars etc.

Van Pelt for example, knows that revisionists are serious. He's known it for decades. He knows that his and Pressac's work has been pulled apart for the incompetent tom foolery it is. And yet, he's never addressed even one problem with it. Because obviously he knows what a threat to his business engaging with the enemy really is.

 

[Stan]

Dude. Im not frustrated. I was just asking for accommodation and agreement. Chugger wants everyone to be nice to him but also wants to refuse to compromise.

I thought the offer was reasonable. And Hitler I.e. us, me etc are simply being reasonable as usual.

Look. Mattogno did a study on the healthcare system. It's been out a few years now and it's free as pdf on codoh.

Why just make shit up about what Mattogno says when you can just quote him? You trying to play us again homie?



Dude. Why tell us this?

Do you think if a Nazi like knew the purpose of the holocaust education it would help everyone see how not a hoax it is?

Is this an implicit admission that it's a

I don’t think much of Mattogno or CODOH because they’re avowed Holocaust deniers, but if you want to use him to prove your claim that “Buchenwald provided good healthcare to camp inmates”, go find where Mattogno says that, quote it to the thread and attach the PDF to your post. It’s what I’ve been doing without anyone having to ask me, so it’s not that onerous.

The more I learn about Mattogno the less I respect him. He refuses to participate in peer review or have any discourse outside of the Holocaust-denial fandom, probably because he will get creamed. He’s fact selective and rarely reads his own sources. He published to a self-owned vanity press that is contrived to look like an academic one. He manipulates his own CV to look like an academic when he’s not. He’s dishonest.

 

[mrolonzo]

The story of the modern holocaust debate;

Those monsters! They hated the Jews so much they wanted to kill them and they did!

Yeeeaahh nah. They wanted to ship them out. They looked after them as much as possible in the camps.

Looked after them?! Yeah maybe some special people they needed but everyone else? Into the ovens they went!! Did I mention medical experiments? Because YEAH THAT TOO!

No. They looked after everyone.

Yeeeaahh Nah. Only those who weren't useless eaters dude.

Yeah the useless eaters too. We have records.

Look, you bastard, you're just not seeing the big picture!!

 

[Stan]

The story of the modern holocaust debate;

Those monsters! They hated the Jews so much they wanted to kill them and they did!

Yeeeaahh nah. They wanted to ship them out. They looked after them as much as possible in the camps.

Looked after them?! Yeah maybe some special people they needed but everyone else? Into the ovens they went!! Did I mention medical experiments? Because YEAH THAT TOO!

No. They looked after everyone.

Yeeeaahh Nah. Only those who weren't useless eaters dude.

Yeah the useless eaters too. We have records.

Look, you bastard, you're just not seeing the big picture!!

You need to cite some sources to shore up your fantasy bud. Just saying that the Jews got great healthcare in Buchenwald and Operation Reinhard was a “financial program” don’t make it so. I back up my claims with evidence… can you?

 

[mrolonzo]

You need to cite some sources to shore up your fantasy bud. Just saying that the Jews got great healthcare in Buchenwald and Operation Reinhard was a “financial program” don’t make it so. I back up my claims with evidence… can you?

Dude. I dont think you realise just how much detail revisionists like Mattogno go into. Is there anything specific?

 

[mgc]

This week there was another new discovery that make deniers look stupid -

New mass grave was found (this week) in Poland, with 8,000 Nazi victims (link below).

Relevant to denial because 1) Though these were Polish intellectuals—not necessarily Jews—gentile Poles were also victims of Nazi genocide.

2) It again shows how dumb the "muh mass graves" meme is, since people who actually do research into mass graves (not deniers) know that mass graves very often are found long after a massacre happens, because they are difficult to find since perps build over them.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62161018

 

[Bonesjones]

I don’t think much of Mattogno or CODOH because they’re avowed Holocaust deniers, but if you want to use him to prove your claim that “Buchenwald provided good healthcare to camp inmates”, go find where Mattogno says that, quote it to the thread and attach the PDF to your post. It’s what I’ve been doing without anyone having to ask me, so it’s not that onerous.

The more I learn about Mattogno the less I respect him. He refuses to participate in peer review or have any discourse outside of the Holocaust-denial fandom, probably because he will get creamed. He’s fact selective and rarely reads his own sources. He manipulates his own CV to look like an academic when he’s not. He’s dishonest.

Holocaust research only involves collating publicly available documentation. Why would that need to be peer reviewed? Who would peer review it? It's literally illegal in the primary countries it takes place in, yet this isn't seen as a barrier.

You are fucking idiot at best. "Guys this guy attacking an establishment that receives billions of dollars won't acknowledge his arguments that poke holes in their theory, so therefor it must not be valid, infact he must be a fraud!"

 

[mrolonzo]

This week there was another new discovery that make deniers look stupid -

New mass grave found (this week) in Poland, with 8,000 Nazi victims (link below).

Relevant to denial because 1) Though these were Polish intellectuals—not necessarily Jews—Poles were also victims of Nazi genocide.

2) It again shows how dumb the "muh mass graves" meme is, since people who actually do research into mass graves (not deniers) know that mass graves very often are found long after a massacre happens, because they are difficult to find since perps build over them.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62161018

"The estimate of 8,000 victims is based on a person's body weight estimated at 2kg.

In a separate development, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said on Wednesday that a report had been prepared detailing not only Nazi war crimes, but also calculations of financial losses that had been converted into current values.

He said Germany had caused immense harm to the Polish people and had never paid reparations. Germany has said the issue of reparations was legally closed in the 1950s.

Some six million Poles died in the war, including three million Jews. An MP in Poland's nationalist-conservative government said in 2019 that losses could amount to $850bn (£715bn)."

 

[Bonesjones]

It says it contained the intelligentsia and the clergy. Hmm. I wonder who else was in Poland who hated the intelligentsia and clergy.

 

[mgc]

"The estimate of 8,000 victims is based on a person's body weight estimated at 2kg.

In a separate development, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said on Wednesday that a report had been prepared detailing not only Nazi war crimes, but also calculations of financial losses that had been converted into current values.

He said Germany had caused immense harm to the Polish people and had never paid reparations. Germany has said the issue of reparations was legally closed in the 1950s.

Some six million Poles died in the war, including three million Jews. An MP in Poland's nationalist-conservative government said in 2019 that losses could amount to $850bn (£715bn)."

If your capital and hundreds of villages are razed by a savage aggressor, which killed or enslaved or ethnically cleansed millions of your gentile and Jewish citizens, you probably should have gotten reparations.

It says it contained the intelligentsia and the clergy. Hmm. I wonder who else was in Poland who hated the intelligentsia and clergy.

This is a great illustration of your bias. Because it is emotionally painful for you to leave your fantasy world where the Nazis were good guys, you insinuate this massacre "was the Soviets" without looking into basic WWII and German history. Namely that these mass graves were in a portion of Poland annexed by Nazi Germany (actually part of former East Prussia), not in the parts of Poland occupied by the Soviets. They were also next to a German concentration camp.

 

[Bonesjones]

If your capital and hundreds of villages are razed by a savage aggressor, which killed or enslaved or ethnically cleansed millions of your gentile and Jewish citizens, you probably should have gotten reparations.

"From 1945 to 1948, the Soviets deported to forced labor or concentration camps in the Soviet Union from 3,000,000 to 6,000,000 Poles, of which 585,000 may have died. Hundreds of thousands and possibly near 1,000,000 Poles were killed in Soviet terror and repression."

Are we attributing these deaths to the right people?

 

[mrolonzo]

If your capital and hundreds of villages are razed by a savage aggressor, which killed or enslaved or ethnically cleansed millions of your gentile and Jewish citizens, you probably should have gotten reparations.


This is a great illustration of your bias. Because it is emotionally painful for you to leave your fantasy world where the Nazis were good guys, you insinuate it was Soviets without looking into basic WWII and German history. Namely that this mass grave was in the part of Poland annexed by Germany (actually part of former East Prussia), and also near a German concentration camp.

There are multiple points of conjecture here.

 

[The Inward]

Does it make any real difference if it was 6 million or 3 million? If it was 6 figures or 7 figures killed? That goes for both deniers and moralizers. The moralizers are also guilty of ignoring or downplaying other genocides, particularly the deaths caused by communists in the 20th century which greatly outweigh the Nazi death toll at any estimate. Cus, you know, Marx was "still right"...

 

[mgc]

"From 1945 to 1948, the Soviets deported to forced labor or concentration camps in the Soviet Union from 3,000,000 to 6,000,000 Poles, of which 585,000 may have died. Hundreds of thousands and possibly near 1,000,000 Poles were killed in Soviet terror and repression."

Are we attributing these deaths to the right people?

I am just curious. Why do you accept these figures without "physical evidence" showing cadavers and "mass graves" of all or most of these victims. Where are the cadavers?

You are legitimately and honestly stupid (that is a plain statement of fact, no internet bants), so I will spell this out for you - I am not denying soviet atrocities, but making fun of your emotionally motivated double standard in glibly accepting first-page google result estimates of Soviet victims while demanding individual autopsies for each Nazi victim.

 

[mrolonzo]

Does it make any real difference if it was 6 million or 3 million? If it was 6 figures or 7 figures killed? That goes for both deniers and moralizers. The moralizers are also guilty of ignoring or downplaying other genocides, particularly the deaths caused by communists in the 20th century which greatly outweigh the Nazi death toll at any estimate. Cus, you know, Marx was "still right"...

It actually makes a huge difference. The entire nature of the world hinges on these facts.

 

[mrolonzo]

I am just curious. Why do you accept these figures without "physical evidence" showing cadavers and "mass graves" of all or most of these victims. Where are the cadavers?

You are legitimately and honestly stupid (that is a plain statement of fact, no internet bants), so I will spell this out for you - I am not denying soviet atrocities, but making fun of your emotionally motivated double standard in glibly accepting first-page google result estimates of Soviet victims while demanding individual autopsies for each Nazi victim.

I don't accept any estimates of Soviet atrocities either unless there exists solid evidence. Hope this helps.

 

[mgc]

It actually makes a huge difference. The entire nature of the world hinges on these facts.

No it does not you LARPing ignoramus.

Poland is probably the most "based" country in Europe and thoroughly anti-Nazi. The Mike Enoch claim that everything hinges on Holocaust denial is false.

 

[Stan]

Dude. I dont think you realise just how much detail revisionists like Mattogno go into. Is there anything specific?

Yes, this. I linked it to you once before and you ignored it.

 

[Stabmaster Arson]

Just noting that it's not just me and my questions about Muslims he's ignoring. Maybe HistoryEats has studies that will either verify or disprove such a troublingly high rate of Holocaust denial from Muslims, even college educated. And 60–80%? So three, or four, out of five Muslims in the West deny the Holocaust. Wow, maybe we should focus our attention on that demographic.

The guy is a slipery slidey dude who won't ever engage properly. Just shitpost at hi lol