The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
wtfNeedSignUp said:
The entire argument against the holocaust is just smoke and mirrors to divert from the only thing that matters: the death count. For being the number one thing people like to say is untrue, you'd think it will be the absolutely easiest shit in the world to prove, every country had for at least a century has a very good estimate how much population it has, how it's divided and it's kept in archives. It should be the extremely simple to just go after the documentation to prove that before and after the war the difference in the population amount doesn't amount to few millions (of course allowing for amount of deaths that roughly equal to combatant/non-combatant deaths of the other populations). And any attempt to try to argue for the data being forged will require insane amount of cooperation that's entirely unlikely.

But somehow it's not some meme that's being pulled around, but rather wooden doors and how doing a blowjob on a diesel truck has no health risks. It's a simple strategy because it requires other people to do the autistic thing of actually researching whether there are discperencies and the reason for them.
Click to expand...
Since you're the smuggest retard to shit up this thread so far I'm not even going to bother to write my own response. Thomas Dalton puts it in the most layman term that everyone can understand (see attachment). The TLDR; global Jewish growth rates before the war are claimed to have been 5 times higher than the Jewish average after the war and 2 times higher than the global average at the time. Unless Jews had a miracle baby boom before WW2 that has never been seen before or since, then the numbers are bogus. This baby boom also came in a time when (6 million) Jews were claimed to be genocided, starved and deported by, amongst others, the Russian Czar (see my list of mentions of six million before Nuremberg in previous posts). Quite amazing to see such a big baby boom at such a difficult time!

Not that it matters because even if you gave us accurate numbers, which even though you claimed it to be extremely simple you didn't give us a source, it doesn't prove what you think it proves. All it would prove is that people were displaced, deported or died, which no one disputes.

wtfNeedSignUp said:
Either explain where did all the dead jews go, or try to weasel how the massive amount of death wasn't a deliberate choice of the german command.
Click to expand...
Got to love the shifting of burden of proof. All of a sudden the 6 million bodies, or the ash of the bodies, is no longer yours to prove. It's ours! This is not how it works, bud. YOU are claiming 6 million people were killed. 3 million of them in convoluted ways via gas. Now prove it. You people complain about us arguing about "autistic things," but it's what we're reduced to because of the lack of evidence. What is there for us to disprove? I've been begging you people to give me a piece of evidence, a photo, a video, a mass grave filled with ash, LITERALLY ANYTHING. BEz939 has yet to actually give a point of falsification. I can't argue against anything but the retarded narrative because, and I've used this quote 5 times and I'll use it again, as Robert Jan Van Pelt said about Auschwitz we don't have physical evidence. Narrative and testimony is all you have
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Lemmingwise said:
Why would ONLY the death count matter when investigating any historical event? If you look at a murder; you don't just look at the death count; it's worth examining who was responsible, what was the murder weapon. We are dealing with an event that multiple countries and multiple businesses are still starting new payments for up to this very day (even Dutch Railway, what choice did they have running the trains for the germans? It was such a secret too, supposedly the holocaust, so how could they be held responsible for not resisting german rule?).

I'll re-iterate; there are literal conferences of "jewish mineral claims against germany". That's how out in the open the claims are. All of this is built on a singular event; and apparently we are not allowed to think about anything besides the death count?

I always get the impression that I'm talking with a lawyer when someone wants to exclude everything except one thing from examination. If I wanted to ONLY talk about gas chambers or ONLY about non-jewish deaths, or ONLY methods, it would be no less biased.

Every bit of holocaust education has some form of how it was uniquely bad, either because of how uniquely evil the germans were, or how industrial it was, or how efficient. Certainly I don't believe anyone following education in the west will have heard "just the death number". And yes the other parts matter, as well as the numbers.

I remember asking in this thread at what number we can give a genocide a unique name like "the holocaust". Like would it still be a holocaust at 5 million? 4 million? Probably. What about 100.000 though? It's a very mild question, there aren't really wrong answers. I recognize it's a pretty subjective question. But when we speak about such terms as "holocaust denial" without even defining "holocaust" it is all more subjective in the first place.

Of course the official numbers were 11 million originally (ignoring a couple of higher estimates from early french sources), which is only roughly half jews, which means it's a disservice to only always think and speak about jews and an incredible disservice that all of the holocaust payment schemes went only to jews. That above all should raise questions. But I can't talk about that right? I can only talk about the death count. And only the jewish deaths matter. It's a sickening double standard.
Click to expand...
If we are speaking about whether a murder occured, the absolute number one thing that is important is whether there were actually a murdered person involved or not. Afterwards you can argue the specifics of who did it and how, but it would be a pretty interesting thing to try to argue how a massive death count coinciding with a location being conquered is somehow not related.

I'll agree with you with there being worse genocides over the course of (particularly recent) history. But the Holocaust was in the end chosen to be an important thing, partly because jews presence in politics and media and partly because western countries like to think they are better than third country savages.

If you want to argue that the holocaust is an unfair money drain then it's a legitimate opinion, but arguing the event itself didn't happen probably does more to damage your claim rather than support it.
Imadeanaccounttoseedoxes said:
Since you're the smuggest retard to shit up this thread so far I'm not even going to bother to write my own response. Thomas Dalton puts it in the most layman term that everyone can understand (see attachment). The TLDR; global Jewish growth rates before the war are claimed to have been 5 times higher than the Jewish average after the war and 2 times higher than the global average at the time. Unless Jews had a miracle baby boom before WW2 that has never been seen before or since, then the numbers are bogus. This baby boom also came in a time when (6 million) Jews were claimed to be genocided, starved and deported by, amongst others, the Russian Czar (see my list of mentions of six million before Nuremberg in previous posts). Quite amazing to see such a big baby boom at such a difficult time!

Not that it matters because even if you gave us accurate numbers, which even though you claimed it to be extremely simple you didn't give us a source, it doesn't prove what you think it proves. All it would prove is that people were displaced, deported or died, which no one disputes.


Got to love the shifting of burden of proof. All of a sudden the 6 million bodies, or the ash of the bodies, is no longer yours to prove. It's ours! This is not how it works, bud. YOU are claiming 6 million people were killed. 3 million of them in convoluted ways via gas. Now prove it. You people complain about us arguing about "autistic things," but it's what we're reduced to because of the lack of evidence. What is there for us to disprove? I've been begging you people to give me a piece of evidence, a photo, a video, a mass grave filled with ash, LITERALLY ANYTHING. BEz939 has yet to actually give a point of falsification. I can't argue against anything but the retarded narrative because, and I've used this quote 5 times and I'll use it again, as Robert Jan Van Pelt said about Auschwitz we don't have physical evidence. Narrative and testimony is all you have
Click to expand...
Your attachment is fucking shit. The guy goes on to talk about how the growth rate is unreasonable (he probably never seen a ultra conservative jewish family), but ends up saying that it's validated by official data that was written before ww2 (guess jews are timelords) so he'll ignore it anyways. I have a feeling the guy didn't even bother doing the basic detective work of sifting through actual data, just googling shit and saying he'll ignore it since he doesn't like it. Also the guy in the link gave a source of the numbers and you'll assuredly also ignore it.

You are the one trying to argue something that is opposite of he norm, the burden of proof is on you and only you. It's like you'd start arguing Winston Churchill didn't exist because of some contrived evidence and then told me it's my duty to both refute that evidence and prove he did exist. And if you want evidence of the holocaust just go into something like yad vashem.

Your claim is nonsensical, let's say that you are right in that there were no mass execution by gas. This doesn't disprove mass deaths, it just disproves deaths by use of gas. The lack of clear method didn't mean either the jews didn't die in massive amounts, or that it cannot be directly attributed to the actions of the german authority.

Also out of curiosity, do you believe the current white european population is undergoing genocide?
 
Bonesjones said:
Show the dead jews or shut up. It's that simple, prove there exists any evidence of 6 million (over 10 million counting all the other casualties) dead. You can't, so why bother with the rest?
Click to expand...
If I don’t believe 6 million died, but I can give evidence that the Germans exterminated maybe 1-2 million Jews with purpose of genocide, is that still a holocaust to you?
 
BEz939 said:
If I don’t believe 6 million died, but I can give evidence that the Germans exterminated maybe 1-2 million Jews with purpose of genocide, is that still a holocaust to you?
Click to expand...
Can you even do that? I believe where the evidence leads.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
Your attachment is fucking shit. The guy goes on to talk about how the growth rate is unreasonable (he probably never seen a ultra conservative jewish family), but ends up saying that it's validated by official data that was written before ww2 (guess jews are timelords) so he'll ignore it anyways. I have a feeling the guy didn't even bother doing the basic detective work of sifting through actual data, just googling shit and saying he'll ignore it since he doesn't like it. Also the guy in the link gave a source of the numbers and you'll assuredly also ignore it.
Click to expand...
He has probably seen ultra conservative Jewish families. They're still around today. They were around after the war too. Israel is full of them. And yet the population growth (excluding immigration) isn't close to 1.4 today or then, despite them having their own homeland with a high level of pro-natal policies which they didn't have before.
You are the one trying to argue something that is opposite of he norm, the burden of proof is on you and only you. It's like you'd start arguing Winston Churchill didn't exist because of some contrived evidence and then told me it's my duty to both refute that evidence and prove he did exist. And if you want evidence of the holocaust just go into something like yad vashem.
Click to expand...
No, the burden of proof on the person making the positive claim. The holocaust is the positive claim of systematic murder of 6 million people. The norm of the claim is largely irrelevant. If the norm is to believe god exists that doesn't mean it is on a disbeliever to prove he's not. If most people think a person is guilty of a crime doesn't mean it's his job to prove his innocence. If the vast majority of western governments and medical science™ believes a mentally ill homosexual cutting his dick off makes him a woman that doesn't make it so.

Oh shit, I didn't think of going to the Yad Vashem to look for proof. I'm going to send an email to all the revisionists writers to tell them about this amazing resource of knowledge you found! Give me a direct link to the proof on Yad Vashem's website that you find convincing. I'm not doing your work for you
Your claim is nonsensical, let's say that you are right in that there were no mass execution by gas. This doesn't disprove mass deaths, it just disproves deaths by use of gas. The lack of clear method didn't mean either the jews didn't die in massive amounts, or that it cannot be directly attributed to the actions of the german authority.
Click to expand...
If you deny the gassings you deny the holocaust. Ask your beloved Yad Vashem about that. I'm done now. This tactical revisionism and lack of a stance or proof of anything is just arguing in bad faith. Either give me something solid and link to it directly, I'm not going on a treasure hunt, or fuck off

I have a question for people who still believe in the holocaust despite knowing the lack of evidence. The US government is currently trying to astroturf the Tulsa """race massacre""" (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, among others) as the holocaust of American blacks where super wealthy black wallstreet was destroyed by jealous white bois because WE B RIIICH AND SHEEIIT! In the future they're going to claim that this, along side slavery, is the reason why blacks are doing so poorly financially. My question is this. When astroturfing of this blood libel is complete and every historian who dares question the story of white people throwing dynamite from planes to kill blacks because they're jealous of their wealth gets sacked and slandered by the media, what will you do? Will you rim nigger asshole and affirm it like you do with Jews and pay reparations with a smile on your face? When kids get this drilled into their heads in public school in the same way they do with mandatory holocaust classes what will you say to them? That the story is ludicrous? That didn't stop you from believing the holocaust. Will you say there is no evidence and we only have retarded witness reports? Because that's literally all you have with the holocaust
 
Last edited:
Imadeanaccounttoseedoxes said:
He has probably seen ultra conservative Jewish families. They're still around today. They were around after the war too. Israel is full of them. And yet the population growth (excluding immigration) isn't close to 1.4 today or then, despite them having their own homeland with a high level of pro-natal policies which they didn't have before.
Click to expand...
The population growth reduces with more education and easier access to birth contol. Regardless this reduction in population is the big thing that holocaust deniers wouldn't touch despite being the entire crux of their argument (that there was no genocide).
Imadeanaccounttoseedoxes said:
No, the burden of proof on the person making the positive claim. The holocaust is the positive claim of systematic murder of 6 million people. The norm of the claim is largely irrelevant. If the norm is to believe god exists that doesn't mean it is on a disbeliever to prove he's not. If most people think a person is guilty of a crime doesn't mean it's his job to prove his innocence. If the vast majority of western governments and medical science™ believes a mentally ill homosexual cutting his dick off makes him a woman that doesn't make it so.

Oh shit, I didn't think of going to the Yad Vashem to look for proof. I'm going to send an email to all the revisionists writers to tell them about this amazing resource of knowledge you found! Give me a direct link to the proof on Yad Vashem's website that you find convincing. I'm not doing your work for you
Click to expand...
That's a faggot atheist argument that's ridiculousness can be shown in the "prove that Winston Churchill existed" example. The entire way our science works is having a norm and having an alternative argument need to show it is more likely than the norm. Also if most people think a person is guilty of a crime it is his job to prove he isn't through work with either the police (if he isn't accused of it yet) or his lawyer (in the court of law), that's how our law system works. And you keep complaining that there is no proof despite literal museums full of it, photographs and recorded testimonies.
Imadeanaccounttoseedoxes said:
If you deny the gassings you deny the holocaust. Ask your beloved Yad Vashem about that. I'm done now. This tactical revisionism and lack of a stance or proof of anything is just arguing in bad faith. Either give me something solid and link to it directly, I'm not going on a treasure hunt, or fuck off

I have a question for people who still believe in the holocaust despite knowing the lack of evidence. The US government is currently trying to astroturf the Tulsa """race massacre""" (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, among others) as the holocaust of American blacks where super wealthy black wallstreet was destroyed by jealous white bois because WE B RIIICH AND SHEEIIT! In the future they're going to claim that this, along side slavery, is the reason why blacks are doing so poorly financially. My question is this. When astroturfing of this blood libel is complete and every historian who dares question the story of white people throwing dynamite from planes to kill blacks because they're jealous of their wealth gets sacked and slandered by the media, what will you do? Will you rim nigger asshole and affirm it like you do with Jews and pay reparations with a smile on your face? When kids get this drilled into their heads in public school in the same way they do with mandatory holocaust classes what will you say to them? That the story is ludicrous? That didn't stop you from believing the holocaust. Will you say there is no evidence and we only have retarded witness reports? Because that's literally all you have with the holocaust
Click to expand...
That's completly illogical. Proving there were no gassing doesn't magically make the population decrease disappear or not the fault of the germans. Even if the deaths were caused indirectly by famine or diseases that's not something that can happen without the encouragement of the then ruling bodies. Also you wouldn't recieve any proof, so what's even your point of arguing I should give one? The population statistics you provided are a proof, now argue how the jewish people planned for a holocaust and artificially inflated their population before the nazis were even a thing.

Anyways your final argument is just rambling, others poisoning the well doesn't mean that any other genocide is untrue. And I doubt you would give even a fraction of the effort to "find the truth" of events like the Rwandan genocide.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
That's completly illogical. Proving there were no gassing doesn't magically make the population decrease disappear or not the fault of the germans.
Click to expand...

The case for population as claimed is pretty much non-existent. And the cause of death isn't some inconsequential thing. Dutch population died due to lack of food too.

Being unable to prove mass gassing doesn't mean there wasn't deaths that were direct (shooting, gassing per person), but it does pretty much end the mass extermination "final solution" narrative. Unless you were silly enough to believe the open grave burnings I suppose, but I don't think anyone that has ever lighted a barbecue believes those.
 
average holocaust approver.jpg
 
This isn't holocaust related but it is jew related.
KYM recently made an article on Early life Wikipedia, where you look at Early life on a Wikipedia article and expect it to say "Jewish". This lead me to reading the comments which are sympathetic and that Jewish people have been a punching bag and Schrodinger's Minority. I thought that there are a large population of Jews in America due to moving their from Europe in WW2 and how they dominate American society today due to their growth into entertainment, financial services and politics. This comments want me to sympathize that Jews did nothing wrong.

But.

I also thing back to the /pol/ logic of how they created the Frankfurt school which is responsible for modern Marxism, how they use their positions in American politics to fund Israel through defense spending, how there may not be a grand Illuminati conspiracy to control the world or whatever but you can see links between their nationality, their corporation and their government, just like you can in China. You also get stuff like this which can be argued for confirmation bias but also argued that she values her Jewish identity/nationality over that of America. Same with Jewish Embassies advocating for mass immigration but Israel has a border wall with Jordan.

I dunno. I'm trying to find logic in racism and all I see are the actions they do, which goes to show /pol/ is correct on them with the Stereotype. If anyone has any insights as to if I'm right or wrong on things, tell me cause all this big thinkin' is just making me confused.

Also found this which made me lol.
 
Most Holocaust denial, at least at the beginning, is not based on hard evidence. Most people use their emotions to determine what they believe in. Once you decide what you believe, you can always find evidence to back it up. With that being said, I think there are a few good reasons to doubt the official narrative, namely what the power that be gain from it (not just the Jews) and similar events that have turned out to be fabricated.

Obviously Israel and Jews in general benefit the most from the current Holocaust narrative; Israel would not exist without it and there is a huge monetary gain from it. Another example of this is Germany, or rather the German government. Hang on, some of you may be saying (I doubt many of you are saying that), how could Germany benefit from the Holocaust? It makes them look awful, and they have to pay tons of money for reparations. Well, there are these pesky things called nationalists that exist in Germany and other countries, and they tend to think that being German is a good thing. However, German pride is linked to the Holocaust, which is Very Bad. So, nationalism is also now Bad, and the government is free to sell out their citizens, import millions of immigrants, etc. To give a more concrete example, the right wing AfD party is now under government surveillance because, among other things, one politician said something to the effect of "The Third Reich was a small stain on the more than thousand year long history of Germany". It should come to no one's surprise that this happens as AfD is gaining popularity.

As far as fabricated historical events go, there are many to choose from, such as the Gulf of Tonkin incident, WMDs in Iraq, babies in incubators being killed in Kuwait, Lusitania sinking, etc. However, I think more recent examples are appropriate. In the US, the Tulsa Race "Massacre" (formerly known as a riot) has recently had a lot of media attention, with outlandish claims being made about it, including exaggerated death tolls, use of civilian aircraft as bombers, etc. Like the Holocaust, it has had fictional media created about it, which tends to appeal to the emotions. In Canada, there is a recent controversy about mass graves at residential schools and how this proves that the Catholics intentionally tried to wipe out the "First Nations" peoples. Of course, these mass graves are also known as cemeteries, and most of the deaths can be attributed to disease epidemics. Nonetheless, many churches have been burned down from intentional arson attacks, and the Canadian government does little to stop this, either physically or rhetorically.

So did the Holocaust happen like the history books say it did? I don't know, but I do know a lot of powerful people have a lot of very good reasons to lie about it.
 
I have no doubt in my mind, that it was exaggerated. History is written by the winners, and its a proven fact the numbers have changed. I am no math expert, but from what I could tell. It was mathmatically impossible to pull those numbers with primitive gas chamber technology. They probably didn't even use gas if you asked me. Its all convoluted.
 
If it's so undeniably true 6 million evil jews died (honestly never believe in something that sounds too good to be true) what were their names? We know how many people died during the Israeli attack on the World Trade Center down to the names of the victims and their names are etched on several memorials, we know about every US serviceman that died in the Vietnam war and have a memorial dedicated to them yet there is no wall memorial or list of the 6 million jews despite the global community being sure it was exactly no less than 6 million.

One thing that really made me activate my almonds was when debating the holocaust when I was in the military, a supervisor brought up the hypothetical of the Axis invading North America. If the Germans or the Japanese managed to invade the US and Canada, what would the US and Canadians do the interned Japanese? Would they realistically not starve them to allocate resources that would be in short supply? Would a few company grade officers vent their frustrations on prisoners when their families died to the Luftwaffe or IJA bombing their homes and killing their families? Lastly, would the Axis powers not exaggerate what exactly happened in the internment camps for propaganda value?
 
I have never looked at any research or even read a book on the topic but how can it be that I don't know how the historians derived their numbers?
It's all very suspicious.
 
Flynt's Missing Pecker said:
If Holocaust deniers are just crazy anti-semites peddling lies, why do Holocaust museums around the world keep correcting themselves based on revisionist research?
Click to expand...
Better question is
IF the holocaust happened, and hundreds of thousands of Americans, and Allied troops charged German machine gun nests to liberate Jews from genocide, why do the Jews feel no shame in being the main demographic behind anti-European/Anti-white propaganda.
IF the holocaust never happened, and the Jews have created this narrative as an excuse to publish anti-white/anti-European propaganda what does this mean?

Jews are either the most ungrateful, miserable, selfish narcissistic degenerates on the face of the planet who, rather than singing the praises of their liberators, and saviors, who should be building monuments to their heroes have been doing the opposite for 60 years, OR, jews are manipulative sociopaths using fake history to justify their anti-white hatred.

Either way, Hitler was right.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom