For people who claim I'm just here to abuse and obfuscate, you sure are doing the exact same. Belzec mass grave #5 was found in the 97-00 archaeological digs conducted by Andrzej Kola to have a layer so thick in remains that the drill bit broke. The pits are also very sizable, so if barely anyone died, why are there so many of them and why are there so deep
You think I'm abusing you and obfuscating something?
You're right to an extent. I am now abusing you as your behaviour warrants. But obfuscating of course not. I generally stick to exact points and answer every one.
Anyway, I refer you here to the Treblinka study by Mattogno. The best work that exists as it takes in all the angles of inquiry. The pits are claimed to be filled with waxy corpse at the bottom only.
Except mass murder is more convenient than feeding people the regime wanted to liquidate anyway as per their ideology, and it let them steal valuables like gold teeth. Every time you and your denialists have mentioned cremation, you keep trying to claim it was total cremation, probably because that's what your faulty sources say.
Nope. Feeding them and caring for them is more convenient for various reasons and as demonstrated by the history of Auschwitz, in terms of morale, crowd control, war production and they were releasing Jews anyway from Auschwitz. There was no ideological reason to murder any Jews and they even had Jewish blood in their army.
Babi Yar for instance is mentioned by the Einsatzgruppen reports as liquidating over 30K Jews on the precise date as a notice appeared telling Jews to come to the area. Photographs confirm it, as do eyewitness accounts in years afterwards reporting ash and bones there
Babi Yar is without foundation as the EG study shows. But feel free to show us the bodies.
Right, I'm sure he knows better than the people who actually used those terms and told the world what they meant. Until you can find evidence of "resettlement" in any actual scale (which even during the war was known to be a lie in Poland), you're spouting nothing but lies and wistful thinking of people who want to believe their Aryan superheroes are innocent of mass murder
In fact he quotes the actual documents people actually used. So no.
There doesn't even need to be a resettlement and the resettlement issue is dealt with in this very thread. I took great pains to lay ot all out for HS and Chugger. You yourself were aware of this thread at the time as you had made a few snatched responses. So no. It's dealt with and you have no answer.
Jewish percent in Polish census 1921 - 2,048,878 (7.97%)
Jewish percent in Polish census 1931 - 2,489,034 (7.80%)
The population grew slightly less than the Polish population. All other ethnicities, especially Ukrainians and Germans, were subject to statistical manipulation, but Poland had no conceivable reason to exaggerate their Jewish population with its strong antisemitic movement.
Jewish percent in USSR census 1926 - 2,599,973 (1.77%)
Jewish percent in USSR census 1937 (cancelled to conceal Stalinist mismanagement/famine) 2,715,105 (1.68%)
Jewish percent in USSR census 1939 (manipulated stats due to famine) 3 028 538 (1.78%)
Only using manipulated Stalinist statistics do Jews have a notably high population growth rate. Even if we meet 1937 and 1939 halfway, then Jews still grow slower than the Russians or Tatars for instance. And this is exactly the growth you'd expect from a population in an area subject to violence and war in the 1914-1923 period, a population which is mostly deeply religious (to the point of mockery from other Jews) and known for large families (this is the homeland of Hasidic ultra-Orthodox Judaism
I refer you to Dalton on the Jewish population statistics and the pages in which its dealt with here. Pages 68 to 72. Attached.
International law exists independently of whether a nation wants to adhere to it or not. If it didn't, then how I can say the US breaks international law? There were clear precedents that were more or less justly enforced on the Nazi war criminals at Nuremberg.
Actually it's existence only applies to the extent it's rulings can be applied. And that only applies to the extent a nation has agreed to these laws and incorporates them into its own body of law. The only other applicable extent is where another country or group of countries imposes its will on another: which is therefore a might makes right argument. Not a legal argument.
You can indeed say the USA breaks international law because these are laws it itself signed on to and then may have broken.
There were no such precedents as the actions of all countries previously showed.
I'm a staunch believer in moral universalism, and I believe that there are entire tribes, ethnic groups, and nations who practice degenerate morality.
Moral universalism is backed by anthropology BTW.
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/701478 Jews and their in-group preference that brought them the disproportionate power they wield is an example of this. What you are proposing is moral relativism, which is strange since the Nazis were only moral relativists when they were on trial for their crimes.
Ah so group morality is defended in your own link?
Thus Germans were simply acting morally, in their biological interest when excluding Jews back to the east from whence they came.
Congrats you played yourself again.
LMAO Hitler expressed many times in Mein Kampf the inferiority of the Slavic peoples and clearly didn't care his own propaganda outlets regularly called them subhuman as his planners decided the bulk of them (including all Poles) would be exiled to Siberia (besides the ones whose children should be abducted and raised as Germans). He loved Poles so much that like I pointed out, the biggest batch of pro-Hitler collaborationists, many of whom had a long record of being pro-Hitler, anti-communist, anti-Jewish, were all executed or imprisoned. This did not happen in Norway, Belgium, Greece, etc.
Yes he regarded them as inferior. This was pro German rather than anti slav as his actions demonstrated. Banning and executing pro Hitler Slavs etc is perfectly reasonable where they cross German interests. Particularly if, while being pro Hitler they had also been nationalist in their own cause and therefore been involved in action against ethnic german civilians. I would execute such men even if I did respect Slavs and so would you.
Okay, now provide the context instead of the usual denialist approach of taking quotes out of context as you did before.
What quote have I taken out of context before?
But sure, let's have more context;
AUSCHWITZ: EYEWITNESS REPORTS AND PERPETRATOR CONFESSIONS OF THE HOLOCAUST Jurgen Graf 2019
"Three reports that in the historical literature are generally referred to as the “Auschwitz Protocols.”
"Their foundations were the testimonies of detainees who had escaped Auschwitz. Via detours they arrived at the War Refugee Board (WRB), an organization established by the Roosevelt administration and led by the Jewish US Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau that published these testimonies in English in November 1944. This “WRB Report” (an alternative term referring to the “Auschwitz Protocols”) consisted of three parts:44
1. Vrba-Wetzler Report: The two young Slovak Jews Rudolf Vrba (original name Walter Rosenberg) and Alfred Wetzler escaped from Auschwitz on April 7, 1944 and fled to Slovakia. In Pressburg [present-day Bratislava], Oskar Krasnansky, representative of the Jewish Council in Pressburg, wrote a report in German based on the testimonies of these two escapees. Vrba and Wetzler depicted the way the camp was organized and made estimations with regards to the number of Jews who had been gassed up to the moment of their escape.
2. Mordowicz-Rosin Report: The two Jews Czesław Mordowicz and Arnost Rosin who succeeded in escaping from Auschwitz on May 27, 1944, got to the Slovak border on June 6, and also compiled a report about Auschwitz in which they described the mass murder of Hungarian Jews, among other things.
3. Report by the Polish Major Jerzy Tabeau: Tabeau had escaped from Auschwitz already in November 1943."
----------------------------
The Vrba-Wetzler report;
"The text starts with the narrative of the Slovak Jew Alfred Wetzler who
was taken to Auschwitz on April 13, 1942. According to him, the camp held 15,000 detainees at that moment.
The author describes the procedure after arrival (showering, delousing, getting a tattoo), mentions the various categories of detainees and depicts the security provisions. On June 30, 1942 the second of the two Slovak Jews, i.e., Vrba, arrived by transport from Majdanek at Auschwitz.
From this moment on, the two reports meld into one. A considerable part of it consists of the itemization of the transports that arrived at Auschwitz, of which their respective number of deportees as well as the numbers assigned to them are mentioned. According to the report, most Jews were not registered but murdered on arrival. According to the authors, the 1,765,000 Jews gassed between April 1942 and April 1944 were grouped by their country of origin."
------------------------
Here I'll refer you to the screenshot of pages 105 to 106 of
AUSCHWITZ: EYEWITNESS REPORTS AND PERPETRATOR CONFESSIONS OF THE HOLOCAUST Jurgen Graf 2019, where the gassing process is described.
The first immediate falsities;
"Crematories II and III each had five triple-muffle furnaces and not nine
furnaces each with four muffles, and the furnaces weren’t at all grouped around the chimney, but positioned in a row along the axis of the furnace room. The “large ‘reception hall’” (i.e. Morgue 2 in which the victims had to undress, according to the orthodox narrative) was situated on the same level as the “gas chamber” (Morgue 1), so no staircase was needed leading to the latter.
Also, the half-subterranean “gas chamber” was in no way connected by a “track” to the furnace room located one floor above, but by an elevator.
And finally, Crematories IV and V (in the WRB Report III. and IV.) absolutely did not “work on nearly the same principle”: As we have seen, both of these had two eight-muffle furnaces and therefore were of a completely different design."
How did Vrba get this information? From personal experience? Nope.
"Where did Vrba and Wetzler get their “information” from? In his 1964 book I Cannot Forgive, written together with Allan Bestic, Vrba writes that Sonderkommando member Filip Müller had been one of his most important informants (Vrba/Bestic 1964, p. 19
.
In 1985, at the first Zündel trial in Toronto, where Vrba was a witness for the prosecution, he claimed to have maintained frequent contacts with members of the Sonderkommando. He added that he had drawn up the sketch of the furnace room of Crematories II and III on the basis of information received from these contacts."
This Filip Muller had been working at these furnaces for 22 months yet could not actually describe it accurately. How's that for context.
---------------------------
More context;
1/ "Morgue 1, allegedly diverted from its intended use to a gas chamber, had an area of 210 square meters. It is not possible to pack 2,000 people into such an area. Six to seven (adult) people per square meter, thus in total approximately 1,300 to 1,500, would be the maximum in the case of a cooperative and disciplined attitude on the part of the victims."
2/ "Vrba/Wetzler claim that the victims were hoodwinked by handing them towels and soap. Why this useless pretense? Were the Jews just simpletons who did not comprehend that those who densely packed them so closely together could only have malicious intent – all the more so as the SS even fired shots in order to get the doomed people to move even more-closely together? What for, then, the 2,000 towels that would have been smeared with vomit, urine and excrement and poisoned by hydrogen cyanide after each gassing action and therefore would need to be washed and dried?"
3/ "Zyklon B was not a “preparation in powder form”, but was provided in the form of gypsum pellets.
– That all victims would have been dead already three minutes after the insertion of the Zyklon is an impossibility.
As we have seen, the hydrogen cyanide discharged from the carrier pellets very slowly in order to guarantee a uniform distribution of the gas in a disinfestation chamber and simultaneously guarantee the safety of the disinfectors.
Furthermore, it must be recalled that in a U.S. gas chamber, in which the doomed individual was instantly exposed to the full effect of the hydrogen cyanide, on average approximately 9 minutes went by until his death occurred (Christianson 2010, p. 220; cf. Section 1.8."
4/ "As already mentioned, merely an elevator led to the furnace room located above the “gas chambers.” It was therefore impossible that the corpses were transported to this room one floor up by means of “flat trucks.”
5/ "In all of the documentation and scientific Auschwitz literature, starting
with Czech’s Chronicle, there is not a trace of evidence confirming the “information” that the first crematory of Birkenau (Crematory II) was inaugurated in early March 1943 by the gassing of 8,000 Krakow Jews, and that important guests from Berlin were invited to this celebratory occasion."
6/ "Vrba and Wetzler appended a “Careful estimate of the number of Jews gassed at Birkenau between April, 1942 and April, 1944.”47 According to these statistics, no less than 1,765,000 Jews were murdered by means of gas in the mentioned period. This number is a good one-third higher than the maximum number of the Jewish and non-Jewish detainees that arrived in Auschwitz during the totality of its existence. The number of gassed French Jews Vrba and Wetzler indicated to be 150,000, that of Lithuanian Jews to be 50,000. According to Klarsfeld, however, exactly 75,721 Jews were deported from France during the entire war (not all of whom arrived in Auschwitz; Klarsfeld 197
, and the Holocaust literature ture, again starting with Czech’s Chronicle, knows nothing about Lithuanian Jews gassed in Auschwitz."
------------------------
So…. There's that.
But let's look at, for the entertainment and education of all kiwis, what he then wrote 20 years later in his book "I cannot forgive" ;
From this later book, this again is Vrba describing events at Auschwitz;
“Heinrich Himmler visited Auschwitz Camp again in January, 1943. […] He was to watch the world’s first conveyor belt killing, the inauguration of Commandant Hoess’s brand new toy, his crematorium.
It was truly a splendid affair, one hundred yards long and fifty yards wide, containing 15 ovens which could burn three bodies each simultaneously in twenty minutes, a monument in concrete, indeed, to its builder, Herr Walter Dejaco. […]
He [Himmler] certainly saw an impressive demonstration, marred only by a time table that would have caused concern in many a small German railway station. Commandant Hoess, anxious to dispaly his new toy at its most efficient, had arranged for a special transport of 3,000 Polish Jews to be present for slaughter in the modern, German way.
Himmler arrived at 8 o’clock that morning and the show was to start an hour later. By eight forty-five, the new gas chambers, with their clever dummy showers and their notices ‘Keep Clean’, ‘Keep Quiet’ and so on, were packed to capacity.
The S.S. guards, indeed, had made sure that not an inch of space would be wasted by firing a few shots at the entrance.
This encouraged those already inside to press away from the doors and more victims were ushered in. Then babies and very small children were tossed onto the heads of the adults and the doors were closed and sealed.
An S.S. man, wearing a heavy service gas mask, stood on the roof of the chamber, waiting to drop in the Cyclon B pellets which released a hydrogen cyanide gas.
His was a post of honour that day, for seldom would he have had such a distinguished audience and he probably felt as tense as the starter of the Derby. By eight fifty-five, the tension was almost unbearable. The man in the gas mask was fidgetting with his boxes of pellets.
He had a fine full house beneath him. But there was no sign of the Reichsführer who had gone off to have breakfast with Commandant Hoess. Somewhere a phone rang. Every head turned towards it. A junior N. C. O. clambered over to the officer in charge of the operation, saluted hastily and panted out a message. The officer’s face stiffened, but he said not a word. The message was: ‘The Reichsführer hasn’t finished breakfast yet.’
[…] Inside the gas chamber itself frantic men and women, who knew by that time what a shower in Auschwitz meant, began shouting, screaming and pounding weakly on the door; but nobody outside heard them because the new chamber was sound-proof as well as gas-proof. […]
But by elven o’clock, just two hours late, a car drew up. Himmler and Hoess got out and chatted for a while to the senior officers present. Himmler listened intently, as they explained the procedure to him in detail. He ambled over to the sealed door, glanced casually through the small, thick observation window at the squirming bodies inside, then returned to fire some more questions at his underlings. At last, however, everything was ready for action. A sharp command was given to the S.S. man on the roof. He opened a circular lid and dropped the pellets quickly onto the heads below him. He knew, everyone knew, that the heat of those packed bodies would cause these pellets to release their gases in a few minutes; and so he closed the lid quickly.
The gassing had begun. Having waited for a while so that the poison would have circulated properly, Hoess courteously invited his guest to have another peep through the observation window. For some minutes Himmler peered into the death chamber, obviously impressed, and then turned with new interest to his Commandant with a fresh batch of questions. What he had seen seemed to have satisfied him and put him in good humour.
Though he rarely smoked, he accepted a cigarette from an officer, and, as he puffed at it rather clumsily, laughed and joked. The introduction of this more homely atmosphere, of course, did not mean any neglect of the essential business.
Several times he left the group of officers to watch progress through the peep hole; and, when everyone inside was dead, he took a keen interest in the procedure that followed. Special lifts took the bodies to the crematorium, but the burning did not follow immediately. Gold teeth had to be removed. Hair, which was used to make the warheads of torpedoes watertight, had to be cut from the heads of the women.
The bodies of wealthy Jews, noted earlier for their potential, had to be set aside for dissection in case of any of them had been cunning enough to conceal jewellery – diamonds, perhaps – about their person. It was, indeed, a complicated business, but the new machinery worked smoothly under the hands of skilled operators. Himmler waited until the smoke began to thicken over the chimneys and then he glanced at his watch. It was one o’clock. Lunch time, in fact.”
----------------------
As you all may imagine there are numerous lines of breathless bullshit here but a more entertaining expose of this is that July 17/18, 1942 was the last time Heinrich Himmler had been in Auschwitz, therefore it’s impossible for him to have participated in the inauguration of the first Birkenau crematory, no matter whether this took place in January or March of 1943.
Tell me what you think about a guy who could actually write this.
Is he a stressed individual or is he just a fucking liar trying to make a buck?
Thus his later testimonial destruction by a competent lawyer during cross examination at The Zundel trial.
I'll post Faurrison on the Zundel trial soon but I think this is enough redpill for everyone right now.
Nobody responds to you for the same reason nobody responds to creationists or flat-earthers. Your beliefs are rooted in ideology, not facts and your debates consist of finding new ways to rephrase the same tired arguments every time. Your ideology fails on the basis of history, demography, logistics, culture, ideology, engineering, physics, and common sense
Our beliefs are rooted in facts, not ideologies. You don't have to be nazi or german to research this stuff and most revisionists aren't Hitlerists like me.
Our arguments are unanswerable and this is shown in the responses as well as the real life debates in writing or in person that have occurred.
Revisionists succeed on the basis of history, demography, logistics, culture, ideology, engineering, physics, and common sense.
My personal ideology national socialism also succeeds in this fashion because it's just , like gravity, a natural phenomenon, but that's a different matter.
collection of out of context quotes and a historian changing his opinion to the Holocaust arising from the Nazi bureaucracy rather than a series of direct orders (which is what I agree with, since it matches with the somewhat chaotic nature of Nazi bureaucracy and flexibility in policy as the war went on) shows absolutely nothing, except that the "revisionists" (they aren't, they are denialists) are very stupid people. Curiously, the "scholars are day by day coming closer to realizing we're right!" is also an argument used by creationists like when they say the ice age…
Blah blah. These aren't quotes they are claims about history written down on paper.
Despite changing priorities and practices the Nazis were not chaotic. There was no telepathic meeting of minds that caused a holocaust because obviously that's impossible and anyway there are no bodies and it's just stupid to bother trying to kill people all the time anyway.
The only person exposed as stupid here is you. The claims and allegations are made, these are then questioned from the earliest days, the exterminationists then change their story over time always making sure to avoid revisionists in person or in writing and instead castigated them such that jewish goons assault revisionist researchers and Jewish lawyers seek to imprison them.
Who tells YOU this rubbish? Each and every one of your claims is dead wrong, as I've shown. I have no reason to see your other claims because they are very likely just as wrong, if not more wrong. If you've distortions and misinterpretations so obvious the writer appears to be deliberately lying by omission or straight up lying, then you're a liar, as simple as that. You are not a revisionist, you are a denialist. Do not sully the good name of revisionists, because you aren't one.
What have you shown of my claims to be wrong?
You've just dodged and spun around that's all.
Nothing ive said is dead wrong obviously which is shown by your cowardly behaviour.
But then we see the strange claim that I am not a revisionist, who apparently now have 'good name's now, but a instead a 'denialist'. This term is straight from Deborah Lipstadt who, like her friends, refuses to acknowledge the existence of a debate.
