The Great Labor Shortage

[Bunny Tracks]

A good chunk of this labor shortage is the result of businesses raising the hiring requirements too high without raising the wages for those jobs.

Meaning, you have tons of places where what would normally be entry-level jobs are now seeking people with degrees, and experience, and won't hire those who don't, but are expecting people who have them to work for fucking peanuts.

On top of that, there's an increasing amount of workplaces that are forcing you to take surveys while you apply to them that claim to be just to see if "you'd be a good fit for them" that are actually their way of getting around the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).

Basically, they're using deceptive language to screen you for mental health issues, and because of this, and how more, and more hiring processes are being done by algorithms, people aren't getting hired.

Even basic entry-level jobs are doing this now, and I'm surprised it hasn't been cracked down on yet because if an employer asked such things to your face at an interview it would be illegal.

Another thing is that a lot more people are self-employed now. The rise of the internet has made it more than possible to scrape by just doing things as simple as buying, and selling things on eBay, and doing art commissions. Sure, it's not glamorous, and they would still probably make just as much, or more money by working at an actual business, but why do that when you can get by decently by being your own boss? It's not like they'd be giving you benefits to compensate for this. Which leads me to my last point...

Lack of benefits. Be it childcare, health insurance, pensions, etc. this is a huge sticking that needs to be addressed. It's not enough to just provide a job anymore. Companies need to start providing these things if they want to see more hires. If they're not going to pay their employees better, then they can at least provide things like this.

 

[Dyn]

Prices are about as high as they can be raised before consumers start noping out. Profit margins are already thin and the cost of supplies is rising. These jobs are soon to be automated out of existence for the most part.

Good. An entire country's workforce is dedicated to selling each other cooked meals, massage therapy and handjobs, and forgot to actually make or mine or farm anything instead of just buying it all from China.

 

[RembrandtCourage]

I wouldn't look into trucking beyond the short term. Besides attempting to aggressively automate the process so the execs and CEOs can shave even more personal profit for themselves there's also that push to bring the internet to africa, IE that big internet cable pipeline or whatever they're trying to develop in the african west coast or something. Once that's finished one thing they want to do with it is to train people there so they can drive for pennies on the dollar and outsource trucking once and for all.

Granted this information is dated and it was mostly scuttlebutt so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Dyn]

I wouldn't look into trucking beyond the short term. Besides attempting to aggressively automate the process so the execs and CEOs can shave even more personal profit for themselves there's also that push to bring the internet to africa, IE that big internet cable pipeline or whatever they're trying to develop in the african west coast or something. Once that's finished one thing they want to do with it is to train people there so they can drive for pennies on the dollar and outsource trucking once and for all.

Granted this information is dated and it was mostly scuttlebutt so correct me if I'm wrong.

If you're getting into trucking, pick up your hazmat/hazchem handling licences first. They're worth their weight in gold.

 

[TexasRanger]

Well have they considered offering higher pay?

That would be "communism" for many "conservatives".

 

[Dyn]

That would be "communism" for many "conservatives".

Heh, at least communism had workers.

 

[Kramer on the phone]

The whole "learn a trade" is very nuanced. There are a lot of reasons why people don't chose them. Trades can be very hard on the body and have risks to you health. A broken hand or injured back, knee, hip, etc. can leave you without income for months. They can have high pay as a balance to it but as you age you will face direct bodily limitations and usually a lot of pain. And there's nothing to suggest that tech or globalization in the next 20 years might not make your trade useless. So it's not really an easy sell to people.

yep, learn a trade sounds good to say to youth, but no one says it to the over 40 for a reason

It's happening everywhere.
I currently have a job I love but it only pays my bills right now so I need another for other expenses.
It was never this easy to jump from job to job.
I sometimes just walk into a place and ask if they're looking for someone and most times, the answer is: "Yes we're overworked, wanna join?"

Why is this happening?
Because in developed countries during the lockdowns, people got welfare for 18 months and they got used to it.
They see now that it's much easier to get 70% of minimum wage doing nothing than slaving away doing something you hate, just so you can buy a car you don't need.

how much was the pay?

 

[Elbow Greased Strength]

Basically, they're using deceptive language to screen you for mental health issues, and because of this, and how more, and more hiring processes are being done by algorithms, people aren't getting hired.

I have made it a rule to never consider working for a company that requires these tests. If they are relying upon pseudoscientific nonsense that can be easily gamed to make decisions, they are not well-run.

As a matter of fact I just quit my job and took another one for a huge pay bump. I wouldn't have even bothered with giving notice (which is bullshit to begin with IMO) if I couldn't take advantage of my "unlimited vacation" during the period.

 

[Dyn]

I've seen at least half a dozen news pieces crying about labor shortages and lazy unemployed people on welfare refusing to take them, but for anyone applying for jobs it's the same old shit. If you don't have degrees and experience and references and a clean criminal record, you're not good enough to work a no-skills-required position for no benefits and the absolute minimum amount of money that the government will allow them to get away with paying you.

Where exactly are junkies and felons supposed to work if not McD's?

 

[Mr. Skeltal]

Heh, at least communism had workers.

They did but corruption and slack labor plagued Soviet industry, especially consumer goods to such an extent that things like toilet paper and clothing were referred to as "deficit goods" and almost impossible to find out in the oblasts.

Honestly the whole $15/hr min wage push won't really increase the quality of life, it will simply disenfranchise those who had previously good wages.
Say for example you worked a good job at $20/hr. Thats $40k/yr assuming a 40 hour work week. Decent money for most people, some of whom worked very hard to get there. Let's say your state had a min wage of $10/hr that then gets raised to $15/hr. All of a sudden a frycook at McDicks went from making half the pay of the "decent job" to 75% of it. This can breed resentment among working professionals who just saw a low skill worker funtionally get a 50% raise for nothing while their wages stagnate amid high inflation, high rent, and high fuel prices. Until all wages track inflation to some degree and companies are required to re-invest in their workforce instead of giving the C-suite yet more "bonuses" the labor malaise won't be going anywhere in this economy.

Additionally, people are increasingly placing their work/life balance higher on their list of priorities and working hard for low pay doesn't square with that. Companies will have to increase compensation or provide more services to entice more people to work for them. Lowering some of the asinine post-'08 "Entry-level, 5 years' experience, Master's preferred" requirements would also help if compensation isn't able to be changed much. Some business that are unable to adapt to this can and should go out of business, as their business model proved inefficient and unsustainable.

 

[Dyn]

Honestly the whole $15/hr min wage push won't really increase the quality of life, it will simply disenfranchise those who had previously good wages.

"We shouldn't pay poor people a liveable wage because rich people will get bitter and petty about it."

 

[Car Won't Crank]

I wouldn't look into trucking beyond the short term. Besides attempting to aggressively automate the process so the execs and CEOs can shave even more personal profit for themselves there's also that push to bring the internet to africa, IE that big internet cable pipeline or whatever they're trying to develop in the african west coast or something. Once that's finished one thing they want to do with it is to train people there so they can drive for pennies on the dollar and outsource trucking once and for all.

Granted this information is dated and it was mostly scuttlebutt so correct me if I'm wrong.

How about being a sailor aboard a freighter of some sort? I wonder if the international nature of that job has covid vaccine meme restrictions.

 

[Uncle June]

Anyone who says you'll ruin your body in the trades has no idea what they're taking about.

Yes, if you are still in the field by 50 you will start to have problems. But if you have half a brain and an ever so slight amount of motivation you will be a foreman/project manager chilling in an office making big bucks, telling the younger men what to do well before then.

People in the trades aren't as motivated, so competition isn't all that tough. Unless you are an independent contractor, anyone who is still in the field by 50 is a moron.

(Some)STEM and Medicine > Trades >>>>>>>>>> Everything else.


There is a clear flip happening where blue collar skilled labor is becoming more and more in demand while laptop class white collar work is lagging in growth and demand.

Trades cannot be outsourced or automated nearly as easily. And good luck getting a Mexican to perform skilled labor. The language barrier and time commitment is often too much for then.

No kids are going into skilled labor, and the average worker is in their 50s. Furthermore, the lack of women essentially cuts competition for jobs in half. People who are 20-40 who have years of experience under their belt will be writing their own checks soon. Trade jobs may pay less than white collar counterparts now, but overtime is plentiful and you can easily make more. Soon though, the wage gap between blue and white will be closed in on, AND you'll be getting overtime.

Meanwhile, IT, Engineering, and Tech jobs are getting shipped over seas to Pajeets who can do it for far cheaper, and often times, more efficiently. There is going to be a glut of white collar workers soon, while many skilled labor positions, some of which offer generous pay and benefits, remain unfilled.

 

[Liber Pater]

Most of the things I was going to say have already been said earlier in the thread. Tl;dr the US has been thoroughly hollowed out over the past 50 years and the stress test of the coof plus a long-overdue economic meltdown is starting to push things to their breaking point across all aspects of society. Basically, the wheels are starting to come off, which had to happen at some point.

Also, as far as qualification inflation is concerned, I think a big part of it is employers trying to find ways around legal prohibitions on psychometric tests and racial or disability discrimination. Mass migration and dysgenics have created a huge proportion of the workforce that is simply unreliable and/or untrustworth, and because almost any measure employed to screen these people out would violate the "disparate impact" standard. So employers have devised various clunky methods of trying to get around this, one of them being degree/qualifications requirements. I.e. outsourcing the responsibility of screening people to some external institution.
However, as higher education institutions lower their standards more and more to comply with "diversity" mandates, employer educational requirements will continue to escalate to stay ahead of the curve.
This only works when educational attainment continues to rise, but when rising costs, already high levels of attainment, and COVID- driven dropout increases (in both university and K-12) start to reverse this trend, it creates a massive mismatch. This will only worsen as the higher ed bubble pops. A similar phenomena is occurring with work experience requirements.
Hopefully, certifications and backdoor psychometric evaluations (like "surveys" mentioned earlier in the thread) can help fill the gap, but I think some of the issues involved are much too systemic for a quick fix like that.

 

[Dyn]

a huge proportion of the workforce that is simply unreliable and/or untrustworthy

The real problem is that employers somehow think they deserve better for $7.25 an hour.

 

[Mr. Skeltal]

"We shouldn't pay poor people a liveable wage because rich people will get bitter and petty about it."

It's not that, it's more that it won't solve the underlying issue that companies pay their employees dogshit while overworking them.
I'm fine with minimum wage rising but the rest of the workforce can't be left behind for "junkies and felons". We already do that in social spending and law enforcement to disasterous result.

I want business reform that's more nuanced than a pithy protest slogan regarding the minimum wage.

Edit: lol at the idea that $40k/yr is rich. That's enough to barely support two people on one income or one person with some breathing room.

 

[Dyn]

It's not that, it's more that it won't solve the underlying issue that companies pay their employees dogshit while overworking them.
I'm fine with minimum wage rising but the rest of the workforce can't be left behind for "junkies and felons". We already do that in social spending and law enforcement to disasterous result.

I want business reform that's more nuanced than a pithy protest slogan regarding the minimum wage.

Doesn't the US have award rates? Over here we have a negotiated award rate for just about every position and industry that exists, and the federal minimum wage just covers entry-level trash jobs that would otherwise be open to exploitation.

 

[libRT]

It's happening everywhere.
I currently have a job I love but it only pays my bills right now so I need another for other expenses.
It was never this easy to jump from job to job.
I sometimes just walk into a place and ask if they're looking for someone and most times, the answer is: "Yes we're overworked, wanna join?"

Why is this happening?
Because in developed countries during the lockdowns, people got welfare for 18 months and they got used to it.
They see now that it's much easier to get 70% of minimum wage doing nothing than slaving away doing something you hate, just so you can buy a car you don't need.

Yeah, same in the UK, welfare is basically a career now, if you have two kids you can get significantly better than minimum wage monthly, and you can work a few hours to top it up. I think lockdowns just made more people realise this.

This and other factors such as inflation and emptying of wealth (for the majority) seem to point to an imminent major economic collapse. The problem with socialism is that you can't cheat the market forever, it will always right itself indiscriminately and without prejudice.

Edit: Minimum wage laws only make the problem worse, effectively dragging more people down to the bottom and even lower as the ones that cannot afford to increase wages go bust and reduce supply. The answer would be if businesses raised the wages by themselves but that requires a workforce willing to move about to get the better wages, if you sit in a low paying job, the employer is going to assume the wages are fine despite your bitching and isn't going to raise them.

 

[Pony! Hugger of People]

1) Is this labor shortage just a regional phenomenon?
Both, it's happening in a lot of places but the causes aren't always the same, in some places its more cultural and in others much more economic

2) How big an obstacle are vaccine mandates to recruitment?
Depends on your industry and location, I have been turned down for work for not having the second jab, but I don't do anything big or important. Really the only people who care (in my experience) are huge chains that have to facilitate that nonsense because of their size

3) Are the enhanced unemployment benefits still a thing?
Depends where you go, iirc a lot of Eu countries will pay you as long as you show your actively looking for work, even if you're unsuccessful.

4) WTF is going on with the job market?
Where? Different places are having different issues, slightl PL but I travel a lot for work and while it's definitely fucked in a lot of places, it's not always for the sake reason.

 

[Sparkletor 2.0]

I wouldn't look into trucking beyond the short term. Besides attempting to aggressively automate the process so the execs and CEOs can shave even more personal profit for themselves there's also that push to bring the internet to africa, IE that big internet cable pipeline or whatever they're trying to develop in the african west coast or something. Once that's finished one thing they want to do with it is to train people there so they can drive for pennies on the dollar and outsource trucking once and for all.

Granted this information is dated and it was mostly scuttlebutt so correct me if I'm wrong.

America is going to outsource trucking to Africa and they're going to do it over the Internet?

I don't think that's how that works.