The Final Fantasy Thread

[Radical Cadre]

I haven't played any of the newer ones - I think that some of the more notable, older ones (like FF7) had a lot of good qualities for their day and age, but didn't age very well.

Also, I think it would have been better if there was some overarching continuity between games, rather than most games just being a completely unrelated plot from the others.

You might enjoy the Dragon Quest series more. I really like the Final Fantasy games but Dragon Quest tends to be more consistent and has some basic continuity and there is a certain charm to the familiarity that each games brings with it. Though with that said, continuity of plot may not be entirely what you want given your brief post. But I can't say for sure. The series breaks down into multiple trilogies and arcs with some limited interplay between.

 

[Road Work Ahead]

You might enjoy the Dragon Quest series more. I really like the Final Fantasy games but Dragon Quest tends to be more consistent and has some basic continuity and there is a certain charm to the familiarity that each games brings with it. Though with that said, continuity of plot may not be entirely what you want given your brief post. But I can't say for sure. The series breaks down into multiple trilogies and arcs with some limited interplay between.

Where is a good place to start with Dragon Quest? I've played 1 and most of 2 on the NES, and while I can appreciate the the games from a historical perspective, they really don't hold up very well.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Where is a good place to start with Dragon Quest? I've played 1 and most of 2 on the NES, and while I can appreciate the the games from a historical perspective, they really don't hold up very well.

The only easy games to get are Dragon Quest 8 for the PS2 and Dragon Quest 11 for the Switch, PS4, PC. Personally I would say start with 11.

Everything else is on older hardware and/or expensive, especially Dragon Quest 5 which is arguably the best in the series. The good games are often considered, 1,2, and 3 since it's a trilogy, 5,8, and 11.

 

[Radical Cadre]

Where is a good place to start with Dragon Quest? I've played 1 and most of 2 on the NES, and while I can appreciate the the games from a historical perspective, they really don't hold up very well.

Right, so popping off about Final Fantasy aside, let's get serious for a minute.

I just dropped this post in StraightShooter's profile and it should help you out as well:
---
For your Dragon Quest Adventures:

1-3 and 4-6 are both separate trilogies containing very similar locations and themes. The first three are good games but are definitely older so your mileage may vary depending on tastes. 4,5,6 in particular are very good and depending who you ask, 5 is one of the best JRPGs around. DQ7 is great and a very, very long game even by JRPG standards. DQ8 is also very good and brings in voice acting and 3D graphics; many consider it the best of the bunch. DQ9 is very popular but it is also one of the easiest. DQ10 is a Japan-only MMO so I hope you speak Moon. And DQ11 is the newest and it is shockingly good, they haven't lost their touch.

4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 are all available on the DS/3DS either in "remake" form or as an original release. Some of them are pricey to acquire nowadays but the remakes are mostly solid and worth your time.
---

So there's that summary. Like you say, the original trilogy is dated, though they are definitely a lot of fun if you can put yourself into the frame of mind of a early-gen JRPG. I would strongly recommend playing IV, V and VI in order. You won't be disappointed and you will be able to see how the developers of Dragon Quest utilize different presentation styles to convey the story within their game.

Even though I think DQV is the best of the series, I personally enjoy Dragon Quest VII the most because it is packed with content and I have a thing for games that just keep on going. To that end I can also easily recommend the newest entry, Dragon Quest XI.

The only one I can't talk about is Dragon Quest X because it was region-exclusive and I don't speak Japanese.

 

[Road Work Ahead]

Right, so popping off about Final Fantasy aside, let's get serious for a minute.

I just dropped this post in StraightShooter's profile and it should help you out as well:
---
For your Dragon Quest Adventures:

1-3 and 4-6 are both separate trilogies containing very similar locations and themes. The first three are good games but are definitely older so your mileage may vary depending on tastes. 4,5,6 in particular are very good and depending who you ask, 5 is one of the best JRPGs around. DQ7 is great and a very, very long game even by JRPG standards. DQ8 is also very good and brings in voice acting and 3D graphics; many consider it the best of the bunch. DQ9 is very popular but it is also one of the easiest. DQ10 is a Japan-only MMO so I hope you speak Moon. And DQ11 is the newest and it is shockingly good, they haven't lost their touch.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=NdFgFABSkhQ
4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 are all available on the DS/3DS either in "remake" form or as an original release. Some of them are pricey to acquire nowadays but the remakes are mostly solid and worth your time.
---

So there's that summary. Like you say, the original trilogy is dated, though they are definitely a lot of fun if you can put yourself into the frame of mind of a early-gen JRPG. I would strongly recommend playing IV, V and VI in order. You won't be disappointed and you will be able to see how the developers of Dragon Quest utilize different presentation styles to convey the story within their game.

Even though I think DQV is the best of the series, I personally enjoy Dragon Quest VII the most because it is packed with content and I have a thing for games that just keep on going. To that end I can also easily recommend the newest entry, Dragon Quest XI.
The only one I can't talk about is Dragon Quest X because it was region-exclusive and I don't speak Japanese.

Thanks for the response. I did enjoy 2 up until I just needed to grind levels for the final boss.

I like to try and play rpg series in order so I can see how the games progress and so I don't get too used to QoL features implemented later I'll just skip the end of 2 and give 3 a shot.

 

[Radical Cadre]

As a younger man I was all about Final Fantasy. And make no mistake, I really do enjoy that series. Even abominations like Final Fantasy VII though I want my money back for XIII.

I never really played much Dragon Quest until I was in my late 20s but that series has rapidly overtaken Final Fantasy as my favorite JRPG series. It's fun and engaging while also being familiar and comfortable. There's just something about Dragon Quest. I'll pick up a Mini Medal or Ra's Mirror or encounter a floating castle (that might have a dragon!) in almost every game and despite being a recycled item its familiarity is welcome and enjoyable. I don't know how they manage to pull it off. Maybe it's just a specific type of player that is into that kind of thing.

All I know is that I really like it.

 

[SauceRyuKen]

I've just completed X and been looking into X-2 since it came bundled. I remember I 100%'d that as a kid. Holy fuck, man, I must have been extremely devoted and patient back then because right now I can't think of anything but how absolutely bullshit the completion system is. We're talking "You can miss 100% because you didn't choose the right dialogue at the right time and lost 0.2%, you better be ready to do a whoooole new NG+ run for the Perfect Ending." The story and gameplay are pretty cool, but it's just so hard to stick to without foaming at the mouth.

Spoiler: Long post on X-2, VII and the series' success and shortcomings

That said X-2 is basically proto Mass Effect. It's weird how ahead of the times it was. You get the airship from the start and can go anywhere. You have missions in several places, some you see announced on your destination list, some you don't. So you have reasons to explore. In the international release you even have access to basically every character who has ever been in a fight in Final Fantasy X or X-2 if you recruit them through the Creator Creator. Then you can have the game either play itself with Creatures (Including Brother, Seymour and even Tidus!) or send one or two of your girls to support them. You can essentially parry enemy attacks by dropping their aggro, and then upping it again so they deal more damage. It can basically be played as a squad management game. You can literally relegate yourself to a healing role while your automatic party tears the enemy apart. Sometimes it's much easier than fiddling with the deeply flawed combo system. The combat reminded me a lot of XIII, and the joke is as bad as it sometimes gets, X-2 is still not as infuriating as the dumbass bots could get in XIII.

On why VII was so good, I think it's because it's the first one with a more relatable plot. It still boils down to the same usual Final Fantasy stuff: Attractive Teenagers (And Mr T) fight the corrupt system and end up fighting God. Well, Satan, in this case. On top of that, it was revolutionary for the time on a technological level, and the edgy story and characters fit right in with the times. A lot of the visual designs for characters looked like just cool clothes that you could feasibly find and wear. Tifa is one of the most cosplayed characters in videogame history and a big part of that is just how easy it is to reproduce her outfit. Trying to reproduce Tidus' clownsuit or Zidane's general look would be a nightmare. VIII tried to keep the trend up, and while it succeeded in vastly improving the graphics and making the characters look like normal humans instead of outrageous fashion victims,

It also really helped that it changed the setting from a more traditional fantasy filtered through anime tropes to an urban fantasy filtered through anime tropes. Square's always had a knack for releasing products of the time, I feel. They do a lot of targetting. The Final Fantasy story, when you boil it down to the very basic is always the same thing: Attractive teenagers set out on a quest to kill God/The corrupt Emperor for great justice. This of course appeals to teenagers of the time, who usually also have the spare time to throw at them. X in particular tries to mix it up by having a main character who comes from an urban fantasy environment thrown into a more traditional fantasy setting. It worked mostly okay at the time, but it would have worked a lot better if the dub work wasn't shoddy. Having an audience surrogate was a pretty good thing to ease players into the twenty layers of lore they had cooked up for Spira.

Gameplay wise, I think the series has always suffered from success and wanting to reinvent the wheel. I don't think they ever tried to make a game that would sell well into the future. Few companies have even managed to make games that have aged well and I think those were just happy accidents. They just made things that were cool for the time, sometimes innovated for the sake of innovating, and you finish up with the superficially fun but outrageously dumb Blitzball, that also happens to be spectacularly grindy. It certainly is impressive that they managed to fit an entire sport minigame into a game. And it comes with a side of management, as well. However, in the end it just boils down to recruit three guys with massive attack, funnel balls to Tidus, spam Jecht Shot. And you won't spam a lot, because each shot takes literally 30 seconds to complete. Cool? Yes. Impressive for the times? Absolutely. Eventually people who learned from Square Enix in the first place sometimes take the formula and make a couple tweaks, and the end result is better. I figure if someone was a really rabid blitzball fan, they'd probably enjoy the Inazuma Eleven games, and those also have silly overdone animations... But they only take 6 seconds to complete.

I like Blitz, mind you, in both it's incarnations and Blitz in X-2 isn't even directly playable. Or the really baffling choices like allowing people to level up exclusively through a card minigame like in VIII, if they so choose... And then it turns out it's actually the best, most efficient way to level. Squall Lionheart, slayer of Ultimecia, vanquisher of Omega weapon, thanks to the powers gained through a children's card game... Yugi, eat your heart out.

TL;DR: Making a game that ages well is presumably pretty hard, specially for such a long running series. Spinoffs are complicated. Final Fantasy can almost always be trusted to deliver a plot that appeals to young people around release date, and a game that will be fair for it's day, sometimes even a reference in the genre. They're also huge enough that it's basically impossible to upstage them. I think only Persona can really compete. And Persona is even more heavy on the teenagers fighting God/the system plot. Almost every single old game has some really stupid design choice, and almost every game released now to a warm reception will have stuff that's likely to be deemed stupid in ten years.

 

[Radical Cadre]

I've just completed X and been looking into X-2 since it came bundled. I remember I 100%'d that as a kid. Holy fuck, man, I must have been extremely devoted and patient back then because right now I can't think of anything but how absolutely bullshit the completion system is. We're talking "You can miss 100% because you didn't choose the right dialogue at the right time and lost 0.2%, you better be ready to do a whoooole new NG+ run for the Perfect Ending." The story and gameplay are pretty cool, but it's just so hard to stick to without foaming at the mouth.

Spoiler: Long post on X-2, VII and the series' success and shortcomings

That said X-2 is basically proto Mass Effect. It's weird how ahead of the times it was. You get the airship from the start and can go anywhere. You have missions in several places, some you see announced on your destination list, some you don't. So you have reasons to explore. In the international release you even have access to basically every character who has ever been in a fight in Final Fantasy X or X-2 if you recruit them through the Creator Creator. Then you can have the game either play itself with Creatures (Including Brother, Seymour and even Tidus!) or send one or two of your girls to support them. You can essentially parry enemy attacks by dropping their aggro, and then upping it again so they deal more damage. It can basically be played as a squad management game. You can literally relegate yourself to a healing role while your automatic party tears the enemy apart. Sometimes it's much easier than fiddling with the deeply flawed combo system. The combat reminded me a lot of XIII, and the joke is as bad as it sometimes gets, X-2 is still not as infuriating as the dumbass bots could get in XIII.

On why VII was so good, I think it's because it's the first one with a more relatable plot. It still boils down to the same usual Final Fantasy stuff: Attractive Teenagers (And Mr T) fight the corrupt system and end up fighting God. Well, Satan, in this case. On top of that, it was revolutionary for the time on a technological level, and the edgy story and characters fit right in with the times. A lot of the visual designs for characters looked like just cool clothes that you could feasibly find and wear. Tifa is one of the most cosplayed characters in videogame history and a big part of that is just how easy it is to reproduce her outfit. Trying to reproduce Tidus' clownsuit or Zidane's general look would be a nightmare. VIII tried to keep the trend up, and while it succeeded in vastly improving the graphics and making the characters look like normal humans instead of outrageous fashion victims,

It also really helped that it changed the setting from a more traditional fantasy filtered through anime tropes to an urban fantasy filtered through anime tropes. Square's always had a knack for releasing products of the time, I feel. They do a lot of targetting. The Final Fantasy story, when you boil it down to the very basic is always the same thing: Attractive teenagers set out on a quest to kill God/The corrupt Emperor for great justice. This of course appeals to teenagers of the time, who usually also have the spare time to throw at them. X in particular tries to mix it up by having a main character who comes from an urban fantasy environment thrown into a more traditional fantasy setting. It worked mostly okay at the time, but it would have worked a lot better if the dub work wasn't shoddy. Having an audience surrogate was a pretty good thing to ease players into the twenty layers of lore they had cooked up for Spira.

Gameplay wise, I think the series has always suffered from success and wanting to reinvent the wheel. I don't think they ever tried to make a game that would sell well into the future. Few companies have even managed to make games that have aged well and I think those were just happy accidents. They just made things that were cool for the time, sometimes innovated for the sake of innovating, and you finish up with the superficially fun but outrageously dumb Blitzball, that also happens to be spectacularly grindy. It certainly is impressive that they managed to fit an entire sport minigame into a game. And it comes with a side of management, as well. However, in the end it just boils down to recruit three guys with massive attack, funnel balls to Tidus, spam Jecht Shot. And you won't spam a lot, because each shot takes literally 30 seconds to complete. Cool? Yes. Impressive for the times? Absolutely. Eventually people who learned from Square Enix in the first place sometimes take the formula and make a couple tweaks, and the end result is better. I figure if someone was a really rabid blitzball fan, they'd probably enjoy the Inazuma Eleven games, and those also have silly overdone animations... But they only take 6 seconds to complete.

I like Blitz, mind you, in both it's incarnations and Blitz in X-2 isn't even directly playable. Or the really baffling choices like allowing people to level up exclusively through a card minigame like in VIII, if they so choose... And then it turns out it's actually the best, most efficient way to level. Squall Lionheart, slayer of Ultimecia, vanquisher of Omega weapon, thanks to the powers gained through a children's card game... Yugi, eat your heart out.

TL;DR: Making a game that ages well is presumably pretty hard, specially for such a long running series. Spinoffs are complicated. Final Fantasy can almost always be trusted to deliver a plot that appeals to young people around release date, and a game that will be fair for it's day, sometimes even a reference in the genre. They're also huge enough that it's basically impossible to upstage them. I think only Persona can really compete. And Persona is even more heavy on the teenagers fighting God/the system plot. Almost every single old game has some really stupid design choice, and almost every game released now to a warm reception will have stuff that's likely to be deemed stupid in ten years.

Was FFX the one with the field where you had to dodge the lightning?

This is why I mostly replay Chrono Trigger and Vigilante 8.

 

[Berrakh]

Final Fantasy VII isn't a wholesale ripoff of Final Fantasy I, it is a wholesale ripoff of Final Fantasy VI. So you analogue is inaccurate as per the specifics of my argument.

In closing, to quote Kefka: I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate you!

Yeah I have no idea where the idea that ff6 did "the same things" as ff7 better.
They're very different games. One has a very strongly written main character, the other has a true ensemble cast.
One kills off a main character no matter what you do, the other will kill off some lesser ones if you play badly
Both have intensely personal villains but played very differently. Sephiroth is a specter of Cloud's past he has a very complicated connection to whom he pursues recklessly. Kefka is a persistent antagonist in the micro and macro scenarios.

This just sounds like Grade A FF6-fag salt.

 

[SauceRyuKen]

Was FFX the one with the field where you had to dodge the lightning?

This is why I mostly replay Chrono Trigger and Vigilante 8.

It was. You had to dodge 200 bolts in a row for a celestial weapon part that turns out to be really underwhelming. It takes literally 15~20 minutes of not fucking up once straight. That sort of stuff definitely wouldn't fly in a more modern title, but I don't think anyone guessed it was a horrible idea back then.

I'm thinking of actually going back and finishing XIII next. Probably dangerous thoughts that should be suppressed

 

[PS1gamenwatch]

Final Fantasy VII isn't a wholesale ripoff of Final Fantasy I, it is a wholesale ripoff of Final Fantasy VI. So you analogue is inaccurate as per the specifics of my argument.

In closing, to quote Kefka: I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate you!

I wonder how things would have been if they went and made a direct sequel to FFVI back in 96

 

[Vapewizard]

I think the notion that 7 took off because of its graphics compred to 6 does make sense in a way, specifically with how the battles are animated. To paraphrase Super eyepatchwolf in his video essay on FF7, you can imagine that for someone who hasn't already been playing final fantasy games it would look more impressive to see moments like the Bahamut summon shooting off its energy beam nuke in 3D compared to the older games with the sprite popping up on screen and firing off circular explosions.

 

[Dr. Geronimo]

So mistwalker's doing a new mobile RPG:

I wish the Guchman would get the fuck out of mobile gaming and return for another big RPG. Lost Odyssey was great and Last Story was........alright.

As for the FF7 talk, I think it's one of my favorites because it has my favorite OST and it's themes are a bit more 'real' for current times.

 

[Radical Cadre]

Yeah I have no idea where the idea that ff6 did "the same things" as ff7 better.
They're very different games. One has a very strongly written main character, the other has a true ensemble cast.
One kills off a main character no matter what you do, the other will kill off some lesser ones if you play badly
Both have intensely personal villains but played very differently. Sephiroth is a specter of Cloud's past he has a very complicated connection to whom he pursues recklessly. Kefka is a persistent antagonist in the micro and macro scenarios.

This just sounds like Grade A FF6-fag salt.

Oh you want to know where it comes from you shit stain dildo? Well I hope you can read because I'll show you exactly where it fucking comes from and don't come running to me when your crusty cum rag of a brain goes crying to mommy for the audio book version. These are full-length essays, something your putrid, fetid cock has never even seen before and never will again. I envy you, you're taking your first step toward being something other than a shit-flinging monkey swinging from the trees. Maybe someday you'll even make something of yourself and be sucking my cock for money. Maybe.

Final Fantasy VI: The World Is Square
Final Fantasy VII: This Game Are Sick
And here's the whole directory if you're interested in reading more. This series is quite good, I hope you enjoy it since you evidently didn't read it last time we had this discussion. Maybe you're just not a turn-based aficionado.

Ayyy I'm just joshing you. Enjoy the links, it's good stuff about a increasingly bad series of games.

 

[Islamic Creampie]

So mistwalker's doing a new mobile RPG:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ePFgyBtvqQUI wish the Guchman would get the fuck out of mobile gaming and return for another big RPG. Lost Odyssey was great and Last Story was........alright.

As for the FF7 talk, I think it's one of my favorites because it has my favorite OST and it's themes are a bit more 'real' for current times.

That looks legitimately cool. Going by the trailer it doesn't look like there's any reason that couldn't be on console. I'm sure there's some money sucking mobile shit in there, but it looks like a full fledged console RPG otherwise.

I'm guessing The Last Story only had lukewarm sales and the cancellation of Cry On put an end to Gooch's console publisher funding. Goddamn shame because as someone that loves classic JRPGs Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey were excellent.

 

[Radical Cadre]

I'm guessing The Last Story only had lukewarm sales and the cancellation of Cry On put an end to Gooch's console publisher funding. Goddamn shame because as someone that loves classic JRPGs Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey were excellent.

Last Story actually sold relatively well and it was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. Beyond that I don't really know what happened. They just kind of stopped.

It is a slightly different game but did any of you ever play The Last Remnant? I really enjoyed that game despite it being out of my wheelhouse. Admittedly I didn't really understand how to play the thing until the third or fourth time I tried it. The first couple playthroughs were total failures but once I understood the systems it was a great game.

 

[Disc]

It has nothing to do with story content, it's got everything to do with technical prowess. You posted the sprites of Final Fantasy 6 which at that point they became quite good at making the sprites, however Final Fantasy 1 and 2 were fully remastered on the PS1 and had their sprites boosted well beyond was 6 was capable of, including adding lighting and ground effects to the sprites. Final Fantasy Origins was the artistic peak of the 2d games. 7 was when they first started working with 3d and figuring it out, much like how Final Fantasy 1 was them figuring out how 2D games can work.

Actually, final fantasy 1 was released 3 years after their first release as a game development studio.
Their actual first release was death trap, which looked like this:

their first games on true game consoles are Thexder and Kings knight, both of which look and/or sound terrible as well.

besides, to many at the time, it was fine that the 3D models were simplified - because they were far more alive.

in terms of time from first game from square in that dimensionality to its release, FF6 is more comparable to Kingdom Hearts 2.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

So I really want to like Bravely Default 2..but holy shit the Asterisk user fights are still miserable. I just beat the Thief and holy shit thank god that they are dumb enough to leave Asterisk users not immune to poison.

A level 20 Boss with 17K HP, super high speed because he is a Thief..and he automatically steals all your Brave Points/Bard Buffs. I really wish the Aggro system worked as intended too, it is a nifty idea that you can actually boost your tank's aggro..but the AI just says fuck that despite my MC having 88 aggro pre buffs and my healer having 33 and continually targeting her.

HAHAHAHA what the fuck is this shit. Berserker boss.

"Counters all elemental magic with party wide attacks that do double the damage of said magic"

Also "Normal Attacks for 1500 HP"
Takes 85 Damage from a limit break.

They have had 3 games to fucking get this shit right and they still can't make an Asterisk fights not fucking asinine.

 

[Road Work Ahead]

So I really want to like Bravely Default 2..but holy shit the Asterisk user fights are still miserable. I just beat the Thief and holy shit thank god that they are dumb enough to leave Asterisk users not immune to poison.

A level 20 Boss with 17K HP, super high speed because he is a Thief..and he automatically steals all your Brave Points/Bard Buffs. I really wish the Aggro system worked as intended too, it is a nifty idea that you can actually boost your tank's aggro..but the AI just says fuck that despite my MC having 88 aggro pre buffs and my healer having 33 and continually targeting her.

HAHAHAHA what the fuck is this shit. Berserker boss.

"Counters all elemental magic with party wide attacks that do double the damage of said magic"

Also "Normal Attacks for 1500 HP"
Takes 85 Damage from a limit break.

They have had 3 games to fucking get this shit right and they still can't make an Asterisk fights not fucking asinine.

Use beastmaster, it's op. The berserker boss can be frozen, the cait sith enemies that use it are in a dungeon north of town.

Also, wait until you get to the pictomancer boss

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Use beastmaster, it's op. The berserker boss can be frozen, the cait sith enemies that use it are in a dungeon north of town.

Also, wait until you get to the pictomancer boss

Oh i beat him, but it didn't change that it was bullshit.