Berrakh
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2018
Well yeah that’s what I mean. When I think of games where magic stays rewarding it’s because they don’t have ways to become that overpowered.
The Final Fantasy Thread
- Thread starter Overcast
- Start date
-
Want to keep track of this thread?
Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
Create account
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2022
I have a pet theory that Silent Hill fans are also Final Fantasy fans and I'm using you as confirmation bias
Retarded Weeb
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2022
It's a result of how the genre developed. Early RPGs, taking off early D&D, basically had fighters as your DPS and tanks, meanwhile the magic users (whether the mage or priest varieties) were squishy and unable to output as much single-target damage, but they were meant to handle any other utility whether that be healing, buffing, debuffing/status effects, AoE damage to handle swarms of weaker monsters, or cheesing some things with lucky instant death spells.
This isn't inherently a problem. To take a random example I can think of because I played them recently, Dragon Quest III and IV. Your melee attackers do a lot more damage most of the time then your mages since spell damage is fixed while melee damage can hypothetically keep going up forever (or rather until you hit level cap + have the best weapon), and they're going to be your attackers beating down the final boss and post-game superbosses. But that doesn't mean you won't want a couple magic users supporting them, since mages can buff their allies attack and debuff the boss's defense, increasing your fighters' DPS, and priests not only heal but also buff the party's defense and can but up shields to protect from breath attacks, keeping everyone alive. There's no replacement of the utility the mages and priests bring that allow you to just use a party of melee attackers be equally effective.
FFX is well balanced enough for its main story, but the issue is that for the post-game, the game's systems make it possible for your characters to become ridiculously strong all-rounders, literally they can max every stat and learn every spell and standard skill. Armor is also not particularly limiting between characters; everyone has their own armor type but you can potentially craft armor with the same abilities for everyone, and there's end-game armor abilities can replace most spell utility such giving you immunity to everything and making you auto-heal with items so you don't even need to use healing magic. The result of all that is that the optimal strat ends up being to roll in with whatever characters have the best physical damage due to the few unique elements (Celestial Weapons and Overdrives) with optimal armor abilities and blitz the boss to death while using turn manipulation abilities to deny them turns as much as you can. A character like Lulu whose unique bits are geared towards casting spells ends up screwed over because it's just not as good as physical damage and everyone else can potentially do any non-damage utility she can.
Contemporary Jazz
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2026
I was replaying FFX as well. FUCK Blitzball. I'd rather dodge 200 lightning bolts than win 5 games for Wakka. It's actually impossible. I hate these minigames so much.
What's your guys' favorite Overdrives? Auron's are really simple QTEs but I think Rikku is my fave since there are lots of different options depending on the items.
Also what is the best "Limit" system in FF in your opinions? Limit breaks? Trance? Overdrive? Quickening? I vote Quickening the worst even though XII is my favorite because the timing is awful.
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2024
Honestly, I'd probably go with Limit Breaks myself. Overdrive QTEs are generally kinda lame, and the others... I'm just not really fond of, QTEs are the same reason why I dislike Sabin's Blitz abilities in 6.
Also, locking the Blue Mage's abilities behind a fucking ultimate attack meter and then giving Rikku FAR more versatility with Mix is fucking super gay.
Speaking of Kihmari, I know the fight is scaled to his level but why the fuck is the worthless blue furry the only character in the game who has a totally solo boss fight like that.
Contemporary Jazz
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2026
Kimahri is so boring and bland. I wish he hadn't been included. Also I can't think of any example of Blue Magic being fun after V, and even then it sucked trying to obtain new spells. What did you think of equipment in X? It's extremely boring until the end of the game when you can finally farm items for customization and I wished it had IX's system the further I played. The Calm Lands should've been placed earlier, somehow, and a way to backtrack for the arena so you could work on sidequests throughout the story. It wouldn't have felt so on-rails that way.
Retarded Weeb
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2022
VI - Desperation Attacks: This one people forget about, but it's technically the first "super move" system in FF. It's probably the worst though, because it's so rare and unimpactful. It has a low chance of randomly happening when a character attacks at low health, and VI is pretty easy so you're probably not going to have characters in low health for very long or often. They can do a good amount of damage given their high base power and fact they ignore Defense, but given their randomness and how easy it is to do stupid amounts of damage in the latter half of VI with more conventional methods, it's not worth trying to fish for these as a strategy.
VII - Limit Breaks: The classic. It's easy to say it's the best version of super moves, especially since VII is my overall favorite FF. They're flashy, useful, and the Limit gauge mechanic is simple enough. There's a kind of balance to it in how the gauge fills up based on taking damage, so it's kind of a comeback mechanic in a way. If you're getting your ass kicked then you'll see more Limits, but if you can handle the battle fine enough without needing them then you won't get them as often. That said, the damage the latter half of them can put out it kind of unbalanced. Sometimes I've had Cloud's level 3 Limit available before the end of disc 1 and it can do like 8000+ damage at that point when bosses have no more than 10,000 HP. It makes it so if you're struggling with a boss you can just go in with a full limit gauge or two and blitz it to death without really engaging it, which is silly. Combined with how freeform the Materia system is and how easy it is to hit the damage cap, and it also causes the issue where technically Cloud/Barret/Cid is objectively the most optimal team to take against superbosses because their Limits hit for the most number of hits. I do like that they played around with some characters having mechanically different Limits like Tifa and Vincent, but Cait Sith is weirdly screwed over by only have two moves instead of the usual seven. And Red XIII is more low-key kind of screwed over since his best multi-hit Limit only hits 5 times, while other characters get like 15 hits. At least Tifa's Limit is really good in low level runs.
VIII - Special Attacks: Also called Limits Breaks in English, but that was the localization team trying to piggyback off VII some more. These didn't really have any special name in the Japanese version, and mechanically they're closer to the Desperate Attacks from VI. But it's possible to easily go into them by casting Aura on someone, so it's possible to spam these as a strategy. While they can look cool, mechanically I think these were poorly thought out. It's meant to be a comeback mechanic, but Aura makes that mostly irrelevant. And there's a massive disparity in how good they are between characters, which against gets you this situation where Squall and Zell are plain better than everyone else at endgame. Like you've got Squall's Renzokuken and Zell's Duel which are just multi-hit attacks that can do stupid amounts of damage, especially Zell. Then Irvine's Shot can also stupid damage, but you have to farm ammo to use it. Y'know, whereas Squall and Zell can just do it for free. Rinoa's Combine and Volley can potentially deal high damage, but are kind of awkward to work with. Quistis's Blue Magic is well, Blue Magic, there's useful utility stuff in there but it doesn't feel like they should be restrained to being super moves. And Selphie's Slots is just random spells. Technically The End can instally kill anything in the game, even Omega Weapon, but it's so rare for it to show up that practically Selphie's special ability is the worst of the bunch. Bunch like the rest of VIII, there's some ideas in there but it's very poorly executed.
IX - Trance: This a tricky one to think about. It's more like super forms than super moves, which a cool concept itself but not quite as immediately flashy, and more importantly, this system tends to get a lot of critics because it has this awkward aspect to it in that you can't control it. The Trance guage essentially works like the Limit guage in VII, going up as you're attacked, but it does so at a much slower rate (the rate actually depends on your Spirit stat, so those with low Spirit have it fill slower) and critically once it's filled it activated automatically, so you can't save it for later if it fills during an easy fight where it's wasted. So it creates this frustration in that it can feel like you keep getting it where it's not needed and never have it during boss fights. However, I feel like if we could do something about that issue then this system is overall the best balanced of all these super move type systems. What exactly the Trance gets you varies by character, and some are generally better than others, but they each fit with what that character would want to do anyway, and since each character has a set role, the differences in Trance don't determine how good a character is at endgame like you see in VII, VIII, or X. And some of the Trance abilities have some interesting application, especially Freya's. I think this system has the potential to be close to perfected, since it can be very useful while avoiding being overcentrizing like Limits in VII, the special attacks in VIII, or Overdrives in X.
X - Overdrive: Basically like Limit Breaks, except you can unlock alternative ways to fill up the Overdrive gauge besides taking damage. Some of which can make it potentially very easy to fill the guage up and spam Overdrives, though probably not something the average player will do during the main story. Thinking about it, Overdrives are fairly well balanced for the main storyline, since I don't think they ever get too rediculously powerful too early, like Limits could, and the guage fills up at a decent pace. You can do some wacky stuff with Rikku's Mix, but that requires a knowledge check like doing broken things with Blue Magic or Mix in V, so I think it's fine and cool. The issue I guess is the systems around it in X, where maxing everyone in post-game puts you in that situation where Overdrives are the main difference between characters, so Tidus, Wakka, and Auron end up the best because they have the most damaging Overdrives, next to Rikku with her utility from Mix. Meanwhile, Lulu is screwed by having a magic-focued Overdrive with the most annoying QTE, and Kimahri has really underwhelming Blue Magic. Again, Blue Magic really shouldn't be locked behind a meter.
XII - Quickenings / Mist Knacks: I actually don't have much to say about these, because despite 100% completing XII, I barely used these at all. I haven't played any of the updated versions of XII which tie these to their own guage, but in the vanilla version of XII you had to blow all your MP to use these, and the damage on them isn't so amazing that that it ever felt like a good trade-off. Especially since the QTE to chain them together can be really annoying. I don't know, they just kind of feel a superfluous system to me, like XII would be just fine and barely changed if you completely removed them.
VII - Limit Breaks: The classic. It's easy to say it's the best version of super moves, especially since VII is my overall favorite FF. They're flashy, useful, and the Limit gauge mechanic is simple enough. There's a kind of balance to it in how the gauge fills up based on taking damage, so it's kind of a comeback mechanic in a way. If you're getting your ass kicked then you'll see more Limits, but if you can handle the battle fine enough without needing them then you won't get them as often. That said, the damage the latter half of them can put out it kind of unbalanced. Sometimes I've had Cloud's level 3 Limit available before the end of disc 1 and it can do like 8000+ damage at that point when bosses have no more than 10,000 HP. It makes it so if you're struggling with a boss you can just go in with a full limit gauge or two and blitz it to death without really engaging it, which is silly. Combined with how freeform the Materia system is and how easy it is to hit the damage cap, and it also causes the issue where technically Cloud/Barret/Cid is objectively the most optimal team to take against superbosses because their Limits hit for the most number of hits. I do like that they played around with some characters having mechanically different Limits like Tifa and Vincent, but Cait Sith is weirdly screwed over by only have two moves instead of the usual seven. And Red XIII is more low-key kind of screwed over since his best multi-hit Limit only hits 5 times, while other characters get like 15 hits. At least Tifa's Limit is really good in low level runs.
VIII - Special Attacks: Also called Limits Breaks in English, but that was the localization team trying to piggyback off VII some more. These didn't really have any special name in the Japanese version, and mechanically they're closer to the Desperate Attacks from VI. But it's possible to easily go into them by casting Aura on someone, so it's possible to spam these as a strategy. While they can look cool, mechanically I think these were poorly thought out. It's meant to be a comeback mechanic, but Aura makes that mostly irrelevant. And there's a massive disparity in how good they are between characters, which against gets you this situation where Squall and Zell are plain better than everyone else at endgame. Like you've got Squall's Renzokuken and Zell's Duel which are just multi-hit attacks that can do stupid amounts of damage, especially Zell. Then Irvine's Shot can also stupid damage, but you have to farm ammo to use it. Y'know, whereas Squall and Zell can just do it for free. Rinoa's Combine and Volley can potentially deal high damage, but are kind of awkward to work with. Quistis's Blue Magic is well, Blue Magic, there's useful utility stuff in there but it doesn't feel like they should be restrained to being super moves. And Selphie's Slots is just random spells. Technically The End can instally kill anything in the game, even Omega Weapon, but it's so rare for it to show up that practically Selphie's special ability is the worst of the bunch. Bunch like the rest of VIII, there's some ideas in there but it's very poorly executed.
IX - Trance: This a tricky one to think about. It's more like super forms than super moves, which a cool concept itself but not quite as immediately flashy, and more importantly, this system tends to get a lot of critics because it has this awkward aspect to it in that you can't control it. The Trance guage essentially works like the Limit guage in VII, going up as you're attacked, but it does so at a much slower rate (the rate actually depends on your Spirit stat, so those with low Spirit have it fill slower) and critically once it's filled it activated automatically, so you can't save it for later if it fills during an easy fight where it's wasted. So it creates this frustration in that it can feel like you keep getting it where it's not needed and never have it during boss fights. However, I feel like if we could do something about that issue then this system is overall the best balanced of all these super move type systems. What exactly the Trance gets you varies by character, and some are generally better than others, but they each fit with what that character would want to do anyway, and since each character has a set role, the differences in Trance don't determine how good a character is at endgame like you see in VII, VIII, or X. And some of the Trance abilities have some interesting application, especially Freya's. I think this system has the potential to be close to perfected, since it can be very useful while avoiding being overcentrizing like Limits in VII, the special attacks in VIII, or Overdrives in X.
X - Overdrive: Basically like Limit Breaks, except you can unlock alternative ways to fill up the Overdrive gauge besides taking damage. Some of which can make it potentially very easy to fill the guage up and spam Overdrives, though probably not something the average player will do during the main story. Thinking about it, Overdrives are fairly well balanced for the main storyline, since I don't think they ever get too rediculously powerful too early, like Limits could, and the guage fills up at a decent pace. You can do some wacky stuff with Rikku's Mix, but that requires a knowledge check like doing broken things with Blue Magic or Mix in V, so I think it's fine and cool. The issue I guess is the systems around it in X, where maxing everyone in post-game puts you in that situation where Overdrives are the main difference between characters, so Tidus, Wakka, and Auron end up the best because they have the most damaging Overdrives, next to Rikku with her utility from Mix. Meanwhile, Lulu is screwed by having a magic-focued Overdrive with the most annoying QTE, and Kimahri has really underwhelming Blue Magic. Again, Blue Magic really shouldn't be locked behind a meter.
XII - Quickenings / Mist Knacks: I actually don't have much to say about these, because despite 100% completing XII, I barely used these at all. I haven't played any of the updated versions of XII which tie these to their own guage, but in the vanilla version of XII you had to blow all your MP to use these, and the damage on them isn't so amazing that that it ever felt like a good trade-off. Especially since the QTE to chain them together can be really annoying. I don't know, they just kind of feel a superfluous system to me, like XII would be just fine and barely changed if you completely removed them.
Enemy Skills are really strong in VII. Too strong even, because of how they interact with the Materia system (30 varied spells on one Materia, including some generically useful attack spells, is a way better deal than the 3 or so similar spells you'll get from any given Magic Materia). Pretty fun to use though.
I think Quina's Blue Magic in IX is fun, and well balanced enough overall, but I guess it really depends on much of a chore you find it to have to get enemies down to <25% HP and eat them. I don't find it too bad since I'm just going to be looking at a Blue Magic checklist to know what I need and I least have more involvement in it than just sitting there hoping Quina will get targeted with the new spell.
Stragos's Blue Magic in VI is the easiest in the series to learn since he just needs to see it, not get hit by it or some other more invovled thing, but it's held by how mediocre the effects can be for such high MP costs, while normal magic is so strong in VI. It feels like it only really shines if you play a No Magicite challenge run.
VIII and X are the ones that really drop the ball, because Blue Magic just doesn't work being locked behind some super move mechanic.
I should really use a Gun Mage next time I play X-2 so I can see how good Blue Bullet is in that game, since I've never really tried before and most people don't mention it whether to say it's strong or weak.
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2022
Whenever I hear this it's usually from people who underutilized him. It's fucking awesome to have early Steal and double buffs.
Contemporary Jazz
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2026
You gotta use up 2 lv2 spheres for that though which are really hard to come by early on. I've never played the Int version of X, does the expert sphere grid make up for that?
It's probably easy and fun with a guide but just playing normal and blind it felt like a chore to get a monster down to low HP only to find out you get nothing for eating it, so without a guide I'd just not bother. I wish I had used a guide from the beginning, I missed way too much stuff in IX.
I like Vivi's the most for the double cast and his hat which points straight up.
Honka Honka Burning Love
In Clown World, the only god is the one who Honks.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2019
Gunmage in FFX-2 was hilariously overpowered.
Also Enemy Skill Materia in FF7 had Big Guard which had Shell/Protect/Haste on everyone, 6 had Protect/Shell Big Gaurd.
Really, Blue Magic is pretty much
"Is White Wind and Big Guard good? If so then yeah Blue Magic is at least passable"
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2022
I play with the old Sphere Grid even in Int version so idk about the Expert Grid but you only need Lvl. 1 for the Classic.
I should try out Expert sometime, though, I hear you can get up to some shenanigans.
Baron Reginald
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2022
I think any discussion about X's balance is futile, because everyone becomes irrelevant the moment Rikku is added to the party.
Even as a kid who played the game blind, the moment I came across the Trio of 9999, i just blitzed the game by throwing element gems at everything since they multihit.
Even as a kid who played the game blind, the moment I came across the Trio of 9999, i just blitzed the game by throwing element gems at everything since they multihit.
TheHarbinger
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2022
I remember when Final Fantasy X first came out Blitzball was one of the leading sources of complaints. When I revisited the game years later I wanted to beat Blitzball completely, and so I used one of the guides on Gamefaqs, and it made the minigame almost trivial. So the developers probably knew the exact strategies and patterns to make winning easy and didn't realize how obnoxious and obtuse the game would be for everyone else and never bothered testing it with new players.
The first game of Blitzball you play is meant for you to lose. The only way to win is to break the enemy CPU players by hiding behind your goalie for the entire match after scoring one goal. For some reason they will not pursuit you beyond your goal line. But every other Blitzball tournament can be won by the player if you follow any of the guides. I don't remember the minigame being very intuitive and felt like whenever I stopped following the guide by even a single letter I would risk losing a match. So the optimal path is the only correct way to play or to win. I don't remember it being fun or engaging either but it was part of completing all of the side quests and optional content.
Gravityqueen4life
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 29, 2019
I remember learning the jechet shoot early and made the first match a joke. Never bothered playing it again after.
Zenos Yae Viator
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2025
Contemporary Jazz
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2026
It's funny you say this because the one single win I've ever had in Blitzball was the other day replaying X and winning the Luca story game after failing dozens and dozens of times over the years. I did nothing differently, failed learning the Jecht Shot on the boat on purpose, but Tidus still had Sphere Shot and I somehow miraculously won through a a combination of RNG and the blessings of Yevon I guess. I should've been happy winning it but it felt bittersweet that I could only win once I completely lost the desire for it. Sometimes I wonder if the game is haunted by a Buddhist yokai spirit trying to teach the value of impermanence.
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2024
No clue what that accomplishes but I was a SILENT HILL fan first. I only got into final fantasy recently.
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2019
At least the cup is beatiful enough.
Berrakh
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2018
This is a lot like Blue Magic to me. Outside of experience with Blue Magic from other titles, and time to explore, it feels like guides are fairly mandatory.
But at least Blue Magic can be OP and influence the main gameplay loop. That does a lot to make it feel alright and more like a reward for experienced players.
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2022
Just further bolstering the delusion that I'm right about everything all the time