The Final Fantasy Thread

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Definitely true the further back you go or the older you get. Prior to Remake you'd find people who hadn't gotten the latest "patch notes" and would say that. Strangely Remake didn't change their minds about the girls when it was clear they were wrong.
So now you get more desperate and contrived arguments to preserve that old conclusion.
I think a lot of it boils down to how Tifa is kind of perfect Japanese wish fulfillment in character form, because of the previous assets I mentioned plus being more or less completely submissive and deferential to Cloud.

Half the story would be over by Kalm if Tifa had an ounce of spine and simply said "that shit did not happen" in regards to the flashback.
 
I think a lot of it boils down to how Tifa is kind of perfect Japanese wish fulfillment in character form, because of the previous assets I mentioned plus being more or less completely submissive and deferential to Cloud.

Half the story would be over by Kalm if Tifa had an ounce of spine and simply said "that shit did not happen" in regards to the flashback.
That’s the current cope now because the Redpill Subculture got popular, but the funny thing is Aerith is more popular in Japan than the West and in some big national polls moreso than Tifa. At the very least it’s often quite close.

It’s like how Tidus was really well-received in Japan.

A lot of it is a pretense of maturity that’s entertained with the more internal conflict around Nibelheim (this conflict being about Cloud and not Tifa herself however) and people assume it looks smart to care about internal character conflicts. And entering someone’s mind is a lot more obvious than them admitting they’ll probably never get over losing someone but they have to try and live up to the faith implicitly placed in them by that person’s reassuring smile right before they died.
 
A lot of it is a pretense of maturity that’s entertained with the more internal conflict around Nibelheim (this conflict being about Cloud and not Tifa herself however) and people assume it looks smart to care about internal character conflicts.
My experience is that most people in fandoms go for the "easy mode" of the obvious stuff to pretend they have "media literacy," yeah. And then when somebody points out there's other events to consider that actually do have depth but are not spelled out explicitly, they suddenly don't care about it.

In other words, it's all a front for real preferences.
 
All from the OG. Not the Compilation. We're talking about the Compilation and how Hojo Did It became a meme.
Masamune being an ancient relic of immense power is an invention of the Compilation. It had no backstory until Ever Crisis gave it one.

Half the story would be over by Kalm if Tifa had an ounce of spine and simply said "that shit did not happen" in regards to the flashback.
Except it did all happen, exactly as he said it did except for who the SOLDIER was on the mission. So that brings up the question of "how the fuck does he know all this" and bringing it up isn't the easiest thing because he shows signs of glossing over and mental instability when the subject gets broached about what he was doing since he left the village.
Tifa's the shiest of the three playable ladies but she's actually reacting pretty appropriately to someone showing signs of a serious delusion.
 
Masamune being an ancient relic of immense power is an invention of the Compilation. It had no backstory until Ever Crisis gave it one.
But it only does anything significant or iconic in the OG. This series has backstory out the ass. It doesn’t mean anything compelling happens, which is again what we’re talking about. The only time the impetus for cool stuff isn’t merely a Shinra Side Project is the OG.

This is a concept many fans struggle with but most people’s lukewarm reception to the compilation was not the lack of trivia but the lack of feeling like we were participating in the sort of world-shattering events which get us through all the textboxes.

Except it did all happen, exactly as he said it did except for who the SOLDIER was on the mission. So that brings up the question of "how the fuck does he know all this" and bringing it up isn't the easiest thing because he shows signs of glossing over and mental instability
None of this is in the OG. In the OG she only says she was worried “what might happen” if she does and Cloud doesn’t have an obvious meltdown until the Temple. And someone seeming unstable is still a bad reason to sit on it. A character not acting on what they know is really hard to overcome. And he was talking about how people saw her as spunky and proactive based purely on design.

The Devs have never had a good explanation for it except that Tifa assumes her memory is unreliable (after the OG came and went). But even that’s a slightly silly one if she remembers enough to know Cloud’s version of events all fit.

It’s not unreasonable to forgive her for it but it won’t ever become a good idea or point in her favor as a heroine.

Aeris is also a certified hoe, whereas Tifa is kinda not.
Literally the cope we were mocking tbh. The free market disagrees with this if skanks can dress like her to pay their rent all year. It turns out waiting 5 years to date again is less hoe-coded than how you dress. Who knew, besides everyone.
 
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I find Rosa and Cecil to be the cutest couple
Well they're pretty much the one main couple in the series to have no will-they-or-won't-they aspect to their relationship, they basically act like an old married couple right from the get go. They're even sleeping together before the game even starts.

Reminder that Square retconned Ceodore's age by a year between a couple releases of FF4 The After Years because they realized they made his age too close to the time skip and thus implied that Rosa must have already been pregnant with him before the original game was over.
 
Well they're pretty much the one main couple in the series to have no will-they-or-won't-they aspect to their relationship, they basically act like an old married couple right from the get go. They're even sleeping together before the game even starts.

Reminder that Square retconned Ceodore's age by a year between a couple releases of FF4 The After Years because they realized they made his age too close to the time skip and thus implied that Rosa must have already been pregnant with him before the original game was over.
Cecil is a fucking CHAD
 
But it only does anything significant or iconic in the OG. This series has backstory out the ass. It doesn’t mean anything compelling happens, which is again what we’re talking about. The only time the impetus for cool stuff isn’t merely a Shinra Side Project is the OG.

Except that's not true. Zirconaide in Before Crisis and Sephiroth's nonsense in AC say hi. And even in Dirge, where Hojo was doing all the bullshit, he was trying to weaponize a planetary relic for his own ends. Chaos and Omega Weapon were created by the planet, he was trying to hijack their functions for himself, much like Sephiroth did with the Black Materia.


None of this is in the OG. In the OG she only says she was worried “what might happen” if she does and Cloud doesn’t have an obvious meltdown until the Temple. And someone seeming unstable is still a bad reason to sit on it. A character not acting on what they know is really hard to overcome.
No, it is there in the OG, but the translation mangles it a bit. After waking up in Junon she talks about Cloud drifitng away whenever pressed on the stuff he shouldn't know but does and didn't know but should. And that Cloud's recollection was correct except for the SOLDIER is born out by seeing it in Crisis Core and the fact that well Cloud was actually there. And now Ever Crisis has shown us Cloud actively blanking out things even in their first meeting in the trainyard.

Well they're pretty much the one main couple in the series to have no will-they-or-won't-they aspect to their relationship, they basically act like an old married couple right from the get go. They're even sleeping together before the game even starts.

Reminder that Square retconned Ceodore's age by a year between a couple releases of FF4 The After Years because they realized they made his age too close to the time skip and thus implied that Rosa must have already been pregnant with him before the original game was over.
Yep, she fought the final boss while pregnant before the retcon.

Cecil is a fucking CHAD
Give Rosa her due as well. Woman is going to shoot a dead man in the face on the moon morning sickness be damned.
 
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Give Rosa her due as well. Woman is going to shoot a dead man in the face on the moon morning sickness be damned
I’ll stick with Cecil + Rydia.

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"Your Honor, time works differently in the Feymarch” :blart:
 
To be clear, I am giving Autism reacts not because we disagree but because I find myself constantly reminding you what’s actually being said.
Except that's not true. Zirconaide in Before Crisis and Sephiroth's nonsense in AC say hi. And even in Dirge, where Hojo was doing all the bullshit, he was trying to weaponize a planetary relic for his own ends. Chaos and Omega Weapon were created by the planet, he was trying to hijack their functions for himself, much like Sephiroth did with the Black Materia.
The plot, as in what propels these events. of Dirge and Before Crisis is Shinra shenanigans. A last minute monster is not the plot.

If Deepground was fought in some Ancient-y places because they’re learning about Omega Weapon I’d agree with you
No, it is there in the OG, but the translation mangles it a bit. After waking up in Junon she talks about Cloud drifitng away whenever pressed on the stuff he shouldn't know but does and didn't know but should. And that Cloud's recollection was correct except for the SOLDIER is born out by seeing it in Crisis Core and the fact that well Cloud was actually there. And now Ever Crisis has shown us Cloud actively blanking out things even in their first meeting in the trainyard.
I’m skeptical of “in the original German” arguments (Japanese in this case) because people really do just lie or repeat from secondhand, but Tifa says enough of this in English for me to accept it.

But again, Cloud drifting away is more of a reason to do something. Not less. In a cut scene she confides in Aerith about this so it’s not necessarily about confronting Cloud but even so her unwillingness to rock the boat is kind of the entire point @X Prime was making— that she does what he wants but not what he needs.

Also, really man, EC is not the OG. They also expand on Cloud’s issues in Rebirth but we’re not talking about Rebirth either. The OG more or less worked on a logic of “nothing serious happened until the Temple and by then it was too late, things were moving too fast” so it was easy to ignore. This is why I say they never had a good explanation for it because they keep overcorrecting.
 
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No shade on Rydia at all, but why ship her with the married man and not the one who's actually into her?
I've seen a fair amount of Cecil/Rydia shipping, and I think it's cause some of how Rydia acts can come off like she has a puppy crush for Cecil from when she was a kid that's still leftover after she comes back as an adult, but she doesn't act on it because Rosa exists.

It's bullshit that Edge got nothing in After Years and is still pining over her 15 years later. A bunch of old characters can screwed over in that game's plot, like Cecil spends 95% of story brainwashed or a vegetable, Rosa and Porom don't really do anything notable, Rydia spends half the game crying over the Eidolons. But Edge was the fucking MVP of that game since he was quick to act, first to really start to figure out what was going on, escaped the villain and got an airship while everyone else was getting trapped, and then ran around the world and saved literally everyone. And he even gets a special 1v1 duel with Rubicante later for an exclusive armor piece. But after all that, and writers still don't even let him attempt to confess to Rydia.
 
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