The Dating Pool Dropouts - They've got the dream, but not the drive.

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The Dating Pool Dropouts

Young men today feel they must be six feet tall, make six figures, and have six inches downstairs to get a girlfriend—so many have given up trying.


By Olivia Reingold

September 13, 2023


“Are you religious?”

The question made Jammall squirm. The answer was no, but he could tell his date wanted it to be yes. And after the hour-long drive to get here, to a Caribbean restaurant in Orlando, Florida, he could tell it wasn’t working.

“I think we should just be friends,” the 36-year-old security guard remembers telling the girl he had dinner with last month after they met on Facebook.

That was his first date in three years. He says he once went six months without getting a single match on a dating app, even though he pays $30 in monthly fees between OkCupid, Bumble, and Hinge. If you count high school, when he went to the movies with a classmate, Jammall says he’s been on a total of three dates his entire life.

And now, driving home from his date, it hit him like a ton of bricks: Why do I even do this at all?

He walked into his apartment near Cape Canaveral, greeted the cats, and slumped down on his couch.

“I’m so far out of the loop,” he told me he realized at the time. “Compared to my peers, who have gone out with women, and know how to interact with them, I’m too far gone. I can’t learn that stuff.”

He trails off, then adds: “I’m just not going to try anymore. It’s not worth it.”

Jammall, who asked me to conceal his last name to protect his reputation at work, is one of a growing number of young men who are withdrawing from the dating pool. More than six in ten men aged 18 to 29 are now single, up from about five in ten in 2019, according to data from Pew Research Center. Respondents give a range of reasons for their singlehood, including having “more important priorities,” the fact they “just like being single,” or that they’ve gotten “too old” to keep trying.

But part of it also boils down to this: it’s hard for men to find partners at a moment when women are outpacing them both at school and work. Young women now hold 1.6 million more college degrees than men, and in a growing number of cities, including Los Angeles, Washington D.C., and New York, they make as much as—or more than—their male counterparts. And even if they become mothers, odds are four in ten will become the breadwinners of their households.

“What discourages me so much is that most of the women that I’ve seen on dating sites, they want a man making as much as them and they’re making upwards of like, $100,000,” said Jammall, who tells me he makes $55,000 a year.

“A lot of men are checking out,” he adds. “We’re just tired. We’re just tired of being told that we don’t measure up either physically or financially.”

I found Jammall on the online Reddit community r/TrueUnpopularOpinion, where men often vent about the dating scene. On another subreddit, r/PurplePillDebate, male commenters bemoan that they’re held to the “666 rule,” which mandates they be six feet tall, make six figures, and have six inches—or more—downstairs. (Jammall describes himself as a “straitlaced guy” who is 5-feet-5-inches tall.)

The men I spoke with—ranging from ages 17 to 33 and living in rural New Jersey to Austin, Texas—said they felt overlooked in a competitive dating market, where women often list salary requirements and height preferences on their profiles.

To see if things were as bad as they claimed, I joined two major dating platforms—Tinder and Hinge—and posed as a hip, 30-year-old business owner with a full head of hair and a degree from NYU. A few swipes in, I spotted a busty blonde leaning over in a halter dress with the caption, “Together we could find out if you’re lying about your height.”

Then, a 22-year-old, captured in a selfie at her work cubicle with her cleavage resting on her desk, wrote: “Don’t superlike me if ur ugly I already have a lot going on.”

Another woman, a five-feet-two-inch bombshell named Ashly, warned men: “If you [are] one of those ‘split the check’ or not wealthy. . . NEXT.”

That financial pressure is what screws men over most, said Jess Carbino, the former in-house sociologist for Tinder and Bumble.

“The traditional markers of adulthood like buying a home, completing college, and getting married, are all becoming far harder to achieve,” Carbino said. “Many men perceive themselves to be far less marriageable. And in turn, many women perceive them to be less marriageable, too.”

She says it’s never been easy to be Joe Average on the dating market but things are rougher now that the average man’s salary, which hovers just above $61,000 in the U.S., is hardly enough to afford rent in most major American cities. Yet still, many women hold out for men who make not just as much or more than they do, but are also wildly attractive.

While the sexual revolution freed women from depending on men for income or stability, it also means they can privilege more “frivolous” qualities in a mate, says Rob Henderson, a psychology PhD with a Substack on social mores.

“People used to care a bit more deeply about moral character and hard work, and whether the person was an ethical and upstanding citizen,” he tells me. “And now, you don’t have to worry about that quite as much. And you can sort of focus on things that are just, like, more immediate, like attraction.”

The result? Men at the tip-top of the dating pool get everything. And the men who don’t have it all get nothing.

But even the alphas are feeling the squeeze.

One New York City–based psychologist, David Gordon, says many of the high-powered men he treats—including doctors, lawyers, and financiers—fret over their ability to attract a woman, despite their enviable salaries or careers.

“It’s kind of sad or tragic, but some guys will look at their bank accounts, stocks, or credit score every day, as if it’s some sort of measure of their value,” he says. “We can look at the numbers, and I’m like, ‘Dude, looks pretty good to me.’ ”

Still, he says, “There’s this anxiety around—is this enough?”


That’s the insecurity that keeps Santiago, a 25-year-old from Albuquerque, New Mexico, up at night. The last time he dated anyone was in 2021—but that ended when he suspected she was cheating on him. Now, with the wounds still raw, he fears he’s “not worthy” of a girlfriend anymore.

“After being depressed for so long, I feel like it’s a handicap,” says Santiago, who works at a department store and has been on one date only since his breakup. “It makes me feel like, ‘Oh, he’s damaged goods.’ ”

And then there’s the problem of not knowing how to approach a woman. He suspects his coworker might have a crush on him, and yet he worries that one wrong move and he’ll be labeled “creepy.”

It’s a common worry for men in the post–#MeToo era. In a 2016 study, over 95 percent of respondents replied that men were much more likely to be “creepy people” than women. One twentysomething on Reddit, who wanted to ask out an employee at his local pet store, groaned that men are “expected to be the hunters but are shunned for doing so in public unless it’s on a stupid app.”

So Santiago does nothing.

“I’m a very insecure person—I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble or break their boundaries,” said the third-generation Mexican American.

And then there’s the cost of romance. The average date in the U.S. comes with a $159 price tag, which costs more than ten hours of work for those making a $15 hourly wage. It started getting so expensive for one bachelor, a 26-year-old banker, that he moved from Los Angeles, where rent averages around $3,000, to an apartment in Appalachia, where he and a friend now pay $500 each a month.

“I just found it’s a lot of time, and frankly, money,” he says about dating back West. “We’re risking so much for so little.”

But the dating scene in Appalachia, he says, is “not good” either, partly because he’s working remotely.

“Everyone is double my age and lives in, like, the Midwest. There’s just none of that cohesion or fun. The world has changed.”


Some men insist they haven’t checked out of dating. Rather, they have virtual girlfriends who satisfy all their needs.

Over the past few years, start-ups like Replika, Character.ai, and Inflection AI, have rolled out a universe of virtual companions that users can customize to meet their every desire. One alluring chatbot, Eva AI, woos customers with the promise: “Build relationship and intimacy on your terms.” And one influencer, Caryn Marjorie, says she created an AI version of herself—so far with more than 18,000 “boyfriends”—to “cure loneliness.”

And then there are the real-life sirens of OnlyFans, where its 240 million users can purchase the “girlfriend experience,” and get a constant stream of sexts and loving messages in return for cold, hard cash.

Aella, a top OnlyFans performer who makes $100,000 on “a good month,” says a large part of her job is doting upon her admirers like a lover would, listening to them moan about their tough days or absent girlfriends.

“It turns out the thing that men want is not just sex,” she told The Free Press. “They want sex with a woman that likes them.”

Only a minority of her customers are interested in just physical pleasure, she says. An overwhelming majority reach out to her for companionship, or simply to feel desired by a woman. A “big part” of her job, she says, is tending to men who are lonely.

“An important component to a sexual dynamic is to feel valued,” she told me.

Ethan King, a therapist who “treats 90 percent men” in Austin, Texas, says he often has to convince clients to look beyond the girls they see in porn.

“People say they’re totally happy with their porn girlfriend,” he says. “They’re like, ‘It’s too risky. I’d just rather be online.’ ”

But Ian Soltes, a 33-year-old overnight gas station attendant in Bridgeport, Connecticut, doesn’t want to look past his online “friend with benefits.”

He says he first met his online girlfriend on GameFAQs, a video gaming website that hosts message boards, when he was 13 or 14. They play video games together and message each other all day long (he told me he sent her a “hug emoji” during our interview).

“She has been more than willing to be very close and intimate with me online,” he said. “So any sexual urge I’ve had has been handled by that.”

There’s just one problem: they’ve never met in person or spoken on the phone. Soltes said she can’t because she’s mute.

“I’m pretty convinced it’s a lie,” he admitted. “But at the same time, if I challenge her on it, what’s going to happen? I’m going to find out the one person I’ve been close friends with for decades now is a guy? I don’t want to say I already know that, ’cause I don’t.”

He stumbles to find the right words.

“I’d just be losing a close friend, and I don’t want to risk that.”

The U.S. marriage rate is the lowest it’s been in over a century, with a quarter of 40-year-olds having never married (in 1980, only 6 percent of adults fell into that camp). It’s a trend that continues even though research shows married people are happier.

Americans today “discourage commitment now,” says Steven Mosher, the lead demographer at the Population Research Institute. “The expectation 50 years ago was that everyone would eventually get married and have children. Now, that expectation is gone.”

Already, an increasing number of women are going it alone as mothers, freezing their eggs and using sperm donors to procreate. At some point in the future, Mosher says the family—“the fundamental unit of society”—could completely break down. “We’re going to have children born from sperm donors, with no fathers, eggs and embryos frozen suspended indefinitely until someone wants to add a child to her life.

“This is not a happy future for most of humanity.”

Jon Birger worries about the future, too. Not just for men but for women, who he says aren’t being served by the current dating dynamic—or dating apps, which about half of American “never married” adults say they’ve used at some point.

“Their business goal is to retain users,” says Birger of apps like Tinder that want daters to keep searching for love. The day you settle down is the day their profits die.

His advice to America’s young women is to get off the apps and try “mixed-collar dating.”

“When college-educated women restrict their dating pool to college-educated men, they are effectively limiting themselves to a too-small dating pool,” said Birger, the author of Date-onomics: How Dating Became a Lopsided Numbers Game. “And if you exclude firemen, electricians, plumbers, and other folks that don’t have a college degree, you may be excluding people that you would actually really click with romantically.”

Jammall, the security guard in Florida, says he is open to dating someone more educated or successful than he is, and he believes he could bring a lot to the table. Sure, he doesn’t have a million dollars, but he wants to do “the little things,” like cook dinner for his partner and leave love notes around the house. “I’m trustworthy, loyal, and very direct. I’m also very protective, and I’m not afraid to try new things.”

But still, he knows that many women toggle their apps so that men like him—those without a bachelor’s degree, without a six-figure salary—never appear on their feeds.

And he says they’re “missing out” on a lot of good guys.

“The problem isn’t that I don’t have anything to offer someone—I do,” he says. “But I can’t even get my foot in the door. And if they don’t talk to me, what can I do?”
 
Young men today feel they must be six feet tall, make six figures, and have six inches downstairs to get a girlfriend—so many have given up trying.
Good. These guys need to stop watching porn and reading twitter. Most women worth dating will not care about your height (provided it's not midget-status), your income so long as you can provide the basics, and your dick size unless you're dating a coomer... same way most decent dudes won't care if a woman has a few extra pounds in the right places, can cook a few good plates, and be the emotional pillar a man needs in order for him to remain stoic against the world.
 
There's his issue, instead of seeking validation from others he needs to work on becoming his own mental point of origin and realize that the only validation you need comes from you and your actions. Every guy has this problem where they need others to recognize how "good" they are and that's what's causing their anguish and if only people knew how "good" a person you are you wouldn't have this issue.
I feel like in a normal, healthy society it would be much easier to get a gf/bf than "becoming your own mental point of origin", but alas. Yes, you shouldn't hinge too much of your self worth or happiness on external validation from other people, but wanting external validation is normal and healthy. Humans are social creatures and it's against our nature and unhealthy for us to pretend otherwise.

Also, being validated is also more than just being told you're hot shit or something like that. Even simple things like someone being happy to see you is validation. Forms of external validation like wanting someone to want to be affectionate with you over any one else, to want spend some or the rest of their limited time on earth with you, so you can be validated and feel like that you aren't in fact some unlovable troglodyte because you can't convince or find one single person on this planet to want these things with you. Some people take this too far of course, most likely as a result of parental neglect or a prolonged period of no intimacy, but even still the base human desire for external validation is normal and shouldn't be repressed.
Wrong, prostitution (real one, not e-girls) is a service that covers a need just like any other. It has the added benefits of ending inceldom and de-sanctinfying sex so that guys don't think they're worthless because they're unnatractive. This weird almost puritanical view of sex as something sacred but also as the way to build one's self-esteem is something that only creates fucked up people with complexes like the aforementioned incels.
I've seen prostitution touted as a cure all for inceldom, but it's missing the point really. I doubt any incel will actually feel better after resigning themselves to the fact that the only way they can have sex is by paying some woman who thinks they're a disgusting loser who can't get laid to spread their legs. Being stuck as an incel isn't just about not being able to do the physical act; a lot of it has to do with the fact that they can't manage to find/convince/whatever a single person to actually want to have sex with them. Same goes for being in a relationship. Past a certain age this does start to indicate that there is something wrong with the person in question, some sort of personal inadequacy, whether it's physical repulsevness, anti social behavior, being unable to locate their nearest shower, or what have you. Bad luck, the current state of society, or circumstances only allows one to cope for so long, even if our fucked up society has a lot to do with while so many people are single and unhappy nowadays.
That's one thing about our modern culture that drives me bonkers. This schizophrenic double-think that sex is both the most causal and banal of things, and some religious sacrament. No wonder so many people get mentally fucked up over a basic human drive being cast into these severe black and white, absolutely contradictory positions. It has to be full of all sorts of double binds.
It's this catch 22 with sex that leaves so many people, particularly men, feeling worthless when they can't get it. You can either treat it as no big deal, it's just sex after all, and they feel worthless because apparently they're so inadequate that they can't get something that apparently isn't a big deal. You can treat it as some sacred, special act, and they feel worthless because they think they're missing out on something really amazing and feel worthless. No matter where they feel like sex lands on this spectrum, it's something that they can't really rectify with their self worth until they get laid.
 
I feel like in a normal, healthy society it would be much easier to get a gf/bf than "becoming your own mental point of origin", but alas. Yes, you shouldn't hinge too much of your self worth or happiness on external validation from other people, but wanting external validation is normal and healthy. Humans are social creatures and it's against our nature and unhealthy for us to pretend otherwise.
I guessing the whole be your own point of validation is something some people just aren't wired to feel. My job is my job, it doesn't matter that I have a lot of free time, make decent money doing it, and requires some sort of advanced knowledge/skillset to be worthy of it; it's a fucking job, sure it lets me take a vacation to a foreign country for a week or two and I can buy damn near anything short of a new house that I want, and watching my bank accounts grow doesn't give any sort of warm and fuzzies or "Hell yeah! I'm cool!" or whatever. Same with being fit or other stuff as well; I'm not gonna puff myself up because doing something routine is just OMG AMAZING praise worthy.

Also, being validated is also more than just being told you're hot shit or something like that. Even simple things like someone being happy to see you is validation. Forms of external validation like wanting someone to want to be affectionate with you over any one else, to want spend some or the rest of their limited time on earth with you, so you can be validated and feel like that you aren't in fact some unlovable troglodyte because you can't convince or find one single person on this planet to want these things with you. Some people take this too far of course, most likely as a result of parental neglect or a prolonged period of no intimacy, but even still the base human desire for external validation is normal and shouldn't be repressed.
It's this catch 22 with sex that leaves so many people, particularly men, feeling worthless when they can't get it. You can either treat it as no big deal, it's just sex after all, and they feel worthless because apparently they're so inadequate that they can't get something that apparently isn't a big deal. You can treat it as some sacred, special act, and they feel worthless because they think they're missing out on something really amazing and feel worthless. No matter where they feel like sex lands on this spectrum, it's something that they can't really rectify with their self worth until they get laid.
It also doesn't help when you seem to have met what some people say is the way to get someone to like you. "Be X, be good at Y, show you can do Z, don't focus on them they'll come to you, etc etc." And it never happens... then you start being left alone with your own thoughts and that never goes well.
 
I've seen prostitution touted as a cure all for inceldom, but it's missing the point really. I doubt any incel will actually feel better after resigning themselves to the fact that the only way they can have sex is by paying some woman who thinks they're a disgusting loser who can't get laid to spread their legs. Being stuck as an incel isn't just about not being able to do the physical act; a lot of it has to do with the fact that they can't manage to find/convince/whatever a single person to actually want to have sex with them. Same goes for being in a relationship. Past a certain age this does start to indicate that there is something wrong with the person in question, some sort of personal inadequacy, whether it's physical repulsevness, anti social behavior, being unable to locate their nearest shower, or what have you. Bad luck, the current state of society, or circumstances only allows one to cope for so long, even if our fucked up society has a lot to do with while so many people are single and unhappy nowadays.
Well, for some incels that may be true, but I think the problem for most of them is that they put women and sex on a pedestal, and base their self worth on whether or not they get female validation, as they usually say.
If they had a few fucks I'm sure a lot of them would see it's not that big of a deal and mostly get over it.
 
Society as it stands right now will simply not survive. There is little to no incentive to date anymore. And as the west declines further, they'll be making ads for people to marry and reproduce... but never addressing the reason why no-one is doing that anymore. The fact that raising a family is akin to pulling out all your teeth as well as the very real risk of the government taking everything away from the man just because the woman complains about anything. In a sense, when you marry a woman nowadays, you're not really marrying that girl. You're marrying the state. And the state wants to take everything from you.

If the choice is between being alone and being broke and alone, the former is better.
I'm guessing it'll go something like "Why aren't you getting married yet? Men need to man up and marry these single mothers!"

The dating apps really have destroyed the dating dynamic, not that it was great before them, but at least women's standards weren't inflated to all hell. The other problem is there's just nowhere that's socially acceptable to meet decent women in real life anymore.
 
Well, for some incels that may be true, but I think the problem for most of them is that they put women and sex on a pedestal, and base their self worth on whether or not they get female validation, as they usually say.
If they had a few fucks I'm sure a lot of them would see it's not that big of a deal and mostly get over it.

I would say that's quite hard since the Western market is very Female-centric. Most things presented to Men are from the Womens perspective. So no wonder the Men internalize this value system. If I'm not 6 foot and 6 figures, then what am I? Everything is telling me I'm worthless now.

Every Man isn't going to be 6 foot 6 figures. It's impossible.
 
Well, for some incels that may be true, but I think the problem for most of them is that they put women and sex on a pedestal, and base their self worth on whether or not they get female validation, as they usually say.
If they had a few fucks I'm sure a lot of them would see it's not that big of a deal and mostly get over it.
I dunno. I feel like even if incels could pay a prostitute to easily have some sex it wouldn't really solve the fundamental, underlying problem with incels, which is that no female actually wants to be in a relationship with them or have sex with them. You'll give them what is perhaps a physically healthier outlet for their sexual frustration rather than watching porn and cooming, but that's about it, because I doubt fucking prostitutes will be good for their long term mental health or make them feel desired as a human being. Maybe they won't sex on such a high pedastal because they can get it easy with a prostitute, but then again, sex with between two people who actually love each other is much, much better and not really the same thing as sex with a prostitute.

Yes, some of them take it too far and think that there's no reason to continue living if they can't attract a female and put their pp in their hole, but that isn't to say that female validation isn't a big deal because it kinda is. You can't have a healthy sex life, relationship, or even start a family without female validation (i.e., the female choosing you and validating you as worthwile enough human being to do those things with.).

My point being is that legalized prostitution is not going to end inceldom unless you only and specifically define inceldom as someone who can't have sex with another person even though they want to. Technically true, but in reality there's a lot more to it than that. Legalized prostitution isn't going to give them healthy emotional and physical intimacy, or make them feel good about themselves about the fact they have to resort to prostitution in order to get laid.

Side note but the archetypical incel who is unhealthily obsessed with sex and woman that might actually benefit from fucking a prostitute and getting it out of his system is quickly losing steam to the new type of incel, which is really your average guy who probably would have been just fine 20 years ago but now in our new heavily atomized, dysfunctional society he isn't having any luck. In other words, the type of person who doesn't put sex or woman on a pedastal and finds having to resort to prostituion as rather sad and pathetic, because it kinda is. Legalized prostitution isn't really going to help him very much I don't think.
 
Good. These guys need to stop watching porn and reading twitter. Most women worth dating will not care about your height (provided it's not midget-status), your income so long as you can provide the basics, and your dick size unless you're dating a coomer... same way most decent dudes won't care if a woman has a few extra pounds in the right places, can cook a few good plates, and be the emotional pillar a man needs in order for him to remain stoic against the world.
The above quoted is a prime example of why this shit isn't getting solved anytime soon.
 
I'm guessing it'll go something like "Why aren't you getting married yet? Men need to man up and marry these single mothers!"

The dating apps really have destroyed the dating dynamic, not that it was great before them, but at least women's standards weren't inflated to all hell. The other problem is there's just nowhere that's socially acceptable to meet decent women in real life anymore.
Yeah. And they'll conveniently leave out problem with dating single mothers. Firstly, they'll prioritize their children over the man. Also, that is definitely gonna be another headeache as you're gonna have an awkward moment in trying to get along with the kids. Hell, the kids are in an awkward spot as well. Secondly, they tend to be more ran through than the average woman especially if they have multiple kids from different dads. So any bond you might have isn't gonna last and she'll be real tempted to cash the man out through divorce court.

Now as for meeting women that are decent... that is the unfortunate tragedy of living in the west. Saying hi to a woman can catch you a case. See the poor bastard who tried to hit up a Starbucks barista. Its practically why the men that could afford it go overseas. However, as the world gets more westernized, they'll get as tainted as the ones where they came from. At some point, it will get bad to the point you have to go full rural or meet tribal girls.

Considering how limited the options of a man has in general, is it any wonder why they just shrug and jack off instead of looking for a girl to settle down with? No man wants a mercenary woman.
 
I'm guessing it'll go something like "Why aren't you getting married yet? Men need to man up and marry these single mothers!"
They're not interested in marriage. Not anymore, anyway. They'll leach what they can from a guy and move on when the well runs dry (whether it's because he runs out or because he gets sick of footing all the bills). Oh and the kids are always a magnificent excuse for "not tonight, honey." That sure gets "fun."
 
Since my hobbies are masculine in nature, I dont hang out with women and I tend to end up with likeminded men who eventually want "relationships" (sex). Their kindness and friendship isn't real. I am not their friend, just a "piece of ass". They aren't interested in relationships either. They aren't interested in me, my family, or any future together. It catches me offguard everytime. Should I stop believing in men? I feel alone and alienated from everyone as a result.

I sometimes think about how nice it would be to be married, have kids, and be with my own family. Or beyond familial, people who care about me and will notice if I go missing. It would be nice, but the world is so cold. Everyone is so selfish. The stories of love beyond borders and sexes told in media are not real. In reality, nobody is allowed to love for no reason, nobody is allowed to hate for no reason. It's polarized, tribal, and oppressive. There are no neighbors, there is no honor system. The world is so cold.
 
Since my hobbies are masculine in nature, I dont hang out with women and I tend to end up with likeminded men who eventually want "relationships" (sex). Their kindness and friendship isn't real. I am not their friend, just a "piece of ass". They aren't interested in relationships either. They aren't interested in me, my family, or any future together. It catches me offguard everytime. Should I stop believing in men? I feel alone and alienated from everyone as a result.

I sometimes think about how nice it would be to be married, have kids, and be with my own family. Or beyond familial, people who care about me and will notice if I go missing. It would be nice, but the world is so cold. Everyone is so selfish. The stories of love beyond borders and sexes told in media are not real. In reality, nobody is allowed to love for no reason, nobody is allowed to hate for no reason. It's polarized, tribal, and oppressive. There are no neighbors, there is no honor system. The world is so cold.
What are the hobbies? Some are thirstier than others with regard to their male participants
 
Most women worth dating will not care about your height (provided it's not midget-status), your income so long as you can provide the basics, and your dick size unless you're dating a coomer...
So you're saying there are no "women worth dating".
I would say that's quite hard since the Western market is very Female-centric. Most things presented to Men are from the Womens perspective. So no wonder the Men internalize this value system. If I'm not 6 foot and 6 figures, then what am I? Everything is telling me I'm worthless now.

Every Man isn't going to be 6 foot 6 figures. It's impossible.
Hell, half the responses in this very thread are attacking the guys in the article for the crime of being short or accusing every guy who has trouble dating of being an incel loser obsessed with porn, etc. The rot of modern society has already infested even this place.
 
What are the hobbies? Some are thirstier than others with regard to their male participants
I like repairing computers and various electronics. Assembling computers is easy with small hands, so repairing video game consoles is also fun and easy for me. I've also recently taken to car detailing and cycling. Since there aren't many women who have interests in these areas, I am often alone.

Solitude is nice sometimes, but there are some moments where I would be watching a tutorial and realize that they are instructions for male strength. I have no fellow women to ask for help. So a man would be told "dont put pressure while polishing" while women like me, who can barely hold the power tool, should actually maintain the little pressure I can give. Nobody can tell me that, I just have to figure it out on my own watching men do things in their own established ways as men.

It is difficult to interact with people in these industries because they are so patronizing towards any women with any interest in them. "Wow that is amazing for a woman" or "They have you doing the easy work, huh?" (as if you imply I am merely assisting a man and not just doing things on my own).

Most men do not recognize female individuality, and often disregard women who are confident in their crafts. Denying help gets you branded as "being a bitch" or "on your period". The few men who recognize women do so with intentions for sex and not much else. Their kindness is artificial and honestly more hurtful than misogynists. A misogynist is hateful out of some misunderstanding, misconception, or past experience. A creep makes you believe you've found companionship. Losing a "friend" or someone you interpreted as a friend hurts more than hateful ignorance.
 
I'm not surprised at all about the computer related hobbies but am about car detailing (specifically detailing. Not wrenching generally.)

Actually it clicks together now. I can imagine /o/ posts about muh dream wrenching couple of bf builds it gf details it.

Well, sorry about your hobby troubles.
 
Since my hobbies are masculine in nature, I dont hang out with women and I tend to end up with likeminded men who eventually want "relationships" (sex). Their kindness and friendship isn't real. I am not their friend, just a "piece of ass". They aren't interested in relationships either. They aren't interested in me, my family, or any future together. It catches me offguard everytime. Should I stop believing in men? I feel alone and alienated from everyone as a result.

I sometimes think about how nice it would be to be married, have kids, and be with my own family. Or beyond familial, people who care about me and will notice if I go missing. It would be nice, but the world is so cold. Everyone is so selfish. The stories of love beyond borders and sexes told in media are not real. In reality, nobody is allowed to love for no reason, nobody is allowed to hate for no reason. It's polarized, tribal, and oppressive. There are no neighbors, there is no honor system. The world is so cold.
I like repairing computers and various electronics. Assembling computers is easy with small hands, so repairing video game consoles is also fun and easy for me. I've also recently taken to car detailing and cycling. Since there aren't many women who have interests in these areas, I am often alone.

Solitude is nice sometimes, but there are some moments where I would be watching a tutorial and realize that they are instructions for male strength. I have no fellow women to ask for help. So a man would be told "dont put pressure while polishing" while women like me, who can barely hold the power tool, should actually maintain the little pressure I can give. Nobody can tell me that, I just have to figure it out on my own watching men do things in their own established ways as men.

It is difficult to interact with people in these industries because they are so patronizing towards any women with any interest in them. "Wow that is amazing for a woman" or "They have you doing the easy work, huh?" (as if you imply I am merely assisting a man and not just doing things on my own).

Most men do not recognize female individuality, and often disregard women who are confident in their crafts. Denying help gets you branded as "being a bitch" or "on your period". The few men who recognize women do so with intentions for sex and not much else. Their kindness is artificial and honestly more hurtful than misogynists. A misogynist is hateful out of some misunderstanding, misconception, or past experience. A creep makes you believe you've found companionship. Losing a "friend" or someone you interpreted as a friend hurts more than hateful ignorance.
I'm really sorry about that. Some people are just assholes. Just don't take it too hard that some men think so little of women because they are basically just animals in the sense they don't use their reason to empathize (even just a little bit with the other sex). I can't say I've gone through something similar as a man, but you shouldn't feel estranged in a field or hobby you love.


This really made me think: fundamentally, men and women nowadays are autistic when it comes to the other sex. I see it in my church, svhool and I've been guilty of it myself. They can't think about members of the other sex as people but objects to attain their goals (for men, that's sex. For women, that's financial and physical security). I do think the Sexual Revolution and the sex-positive wings of feminism had something to do with it, but I also think social media helps us to reduce people to basically objects instead of treating them like people.

I mean, yes, BPD hoes and druken wife-beaters always existed, but the problem was never this bad until we started treating romance and courtship like it's soley about me and not the other person and their wishes and needs (not to mention the possible kids, family, common friends,etc.). It's terrifying to think that we are being propagandized via our natural instincts to hate one another over such things. The architects behind this bullshit are some retarded evil faggots. The evil part speaks for itself, but they're retarded because this can only last for so long before it backfires, like it is now. You have to maintain healthy relations between both sexes in order for a society to be healthy, but the elites that rule over us just want to rape all of us until we are dead and then replace us with cheap third world labor.
 
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