The Dating Pool Dropouts - They've got the dream, but not the drive.

  • 🏰 The Fediverse is up. If you know, you know.
  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account


The Dating Pool Dropouts

Young men today feel they must be six feet tall, make six figures, and have six inches downstairs to get a girlfriend—so many have given up trying.


By Olivia Reingold

September 13, 2023


“Are you religious?”

The question made Jammall squirm. The answer was no, but he could tell his date wanted it to be yes. And after the hour-long drive to get here, to a Caribbean restaurant in Orlando, Florida, he could tell it wasn’t working.

“I think we should just be friends,” the 36-year-old security guard remembers telling the girl he had dinner with last month after they met on Facebook.

That was his first date in three years. He says he once went six months without getting a single match on a dating app, even though he pays $30 in monthly fees between OkCupid, Bumble, and Hinge. If you count high school, when he went to the movies with a classmate, Jammall says he’s been on a total of three dates his entire life.

And now, driving home from his date, it hit him like a ton of bricks: Why do I even do this at all?

He walked into his apartment near Cape Canaveral, greeted the cats, and slumped down on his couch.

“I’m so far out of the loop,” he told me he realized at the time. “Compared to my peers, who have gone out with women, and know how to interact with them, I’m too far gone. I can’t learn that stuff.”

He trails off, then adds: “I’m just not going to try anymore. It’s not worth it.”

Jammall, who asked me to conceal his last name to protect his reputation at work, is one of a growing number of young men who are withdrawing from the dating pool. More than six in ten men aged 18 to 29 are now single, up from about five in ten in 2019, according to data from Pew Research Center. Respondents give a range of reasons for their singlehood, including having “more important priorities,” the fact they “just like being single,” or that they’ve gotten “too old” to keep trying.

But part of it also boils down to this: it’s hard for men to find partners at a moment when women are outpacing them both at school and work. Young women now hold 1.6 million more college degrees than men, and in a growing number of cities, including Los Angeles, Washington D.C., and New York, they make as much as—or more than—their male counterparts. And even if they become mothers, odds are four in ten will become the breadwinners of their households.

“What discourages me so much is that most of the women that I’ve seen on dating sites, they want a man making as much as them and they’re making upwards of like, $100,000,” said Jammall, who tells me he makes $55,000 a year.

“A lot of men are checking out,” he adds. “We’re just tired. We’re just tired of being told that we don’t measure up either physically or financially.”

I found Jammall on the online Reddit community r/TrueUnpopularOpinion, where men often vent about the dating scene. On another subreddit, r/PurplePillDebate, male commenters bemoan that they’re held to the “666 rule,” which mandates they be six feet tall, make six figures, and have six inches—or more—downstairs. (Jammall describes himself as a “straitlaced guy” who is 5-feet-5-inches tall.)

The men I spoke with—ranging from ages 17 to 33 and living in rural New Jersey to Austin, Texas—said they felt overlooked in a competitive dating market, where women often list salary requirements and height preferences on their profiles.

To see if things were as bad as they claimed, I joined two major dating platforms—Tinder and Hinge—and posed as a hip, 30-year-old business owner with a full head of hair and a degree from NYU. A few swipes in, I spotted a busty blonde leaning over in a halter dress with the caption, “Together we could find out if you’re lying about your height.”

Then, a 22-year-old, captured in a selfie at her work cubicle with her cleavage resting on her desk, wrote: “Don’t superlike me if ur ugly I already have a lot going on.”

Another woman, a five-feet-two-inch bombshell named Ashly, warned men: “If you [are] one of those ‘split the check’ or not wealthy. . . NEXT.”

That financial pressure is what screws men over most, said Jess Carbino, the former in-house sociologist for Tinder and Bumble.

“The traditional markers of adulthood like buying a home, completing college, and getting married, are all becoming far harder to achieve,” Carbino said. “Many men perceive themselves to be far less marriageable. And in turn, many women perceive them to be less marriageable, too.”

She says it’s never been easy to be Joe Average on the dating market but things are rougher now that the average man’s salary, which hovers just above $61,000 in the U.S., is hardly enough to afford rent in most major American cities. Yet still, many women hold out for men who make not just as much or more than they do, but are also wildly attractive.

While the sexual revolution freed women from depending on men for income or stability, it also means they can privilege more “frivolous” qualities in a mate, says Rob Henderson, a psychology PhD with a Substack on social mores.

“People used to care a bit more deeply about moral character and hard work, and whether the person was an ethical and upstanding citizen,” he tells me. “And now, you don’t have to worry about that quite as much. And you can sort of focus on things that are just, like, more immediate, like attraction.”

The result? Men at the tip-top of the dating pool get everything. And the men who don’t have it all get nothing.

But even the alphas are feeling the squeeze.

One New York City–based psychologist, David Gordon, says many of the high-powered men he treats—including doctors, lawyers, and financiers—fret over their ability to attract a woman, despite their enviable salaries or careers.

“It’s kind of sad or tragic, but some guys will look at their bank accounts, stocks, or credit score every day, as if it’s some sort of measure of their value,” he says. “We can look at the numbers, and I’m like, ‘Dude, looks pretty good to me.’ ”

Still, he says, “There’s this anxiety around—is this enough?”


That’s the insecurity that keeps Santiago, a 25-year-old from Albuquerque, New Mexico, up at night. The last time he dated anyone was in 2021—but that ended when he suspected she was cheating on him. Now, with the wounds still raw, he fears he’s “not worthy” of a girlfriend anymore.

“After being depressed for so long, I feel like it’s a handicap,” says Santiago, who works at a department store and has been on one date only since his breakup. “It makes me feel like, ‘Oh, he’s damaged goods.’ ”

And then there’s the problem of not knowing how to approach a woman. He suspects his coworker might have a crush on him, and yet he worries that one wrong move and he’ll be labeled “creepy.”

It’s a common worry for men in the post–#MeToo era. In a 2016 study, over 95 percent of respondents replied that men were much more likely to be “creepy people” than women. One twentysomething on Reddit, who wanted to ask out an employee at his local pet store, groaned that men are “expected to be the hunters but are shunned for doing so in public unless it’s on a stupid app.”

So Santiago does nothing.

“I’m a very insecure person—I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble or break their boundaries,” said the third-generation Mexican American.

And then there’s the cost of romance. The average date in the U.S. comes with a $159 price tag, which costs more than ten hours of work for those making a $15 hourly wage. It started getting so expensive for one bachelor, a 26-year-old banker, that he moved from Los Angeles, where rent averages around $3,000, to an apartment in Appalachia, where he and a friend now pay $500 each a month.

“I just found it’s a lot of time, and frankly, money,” he says about dating back West. “We’re risking so much for so little.”

But the dating scene in Appalachia, he says, is “not good” either, partly because he’s working remotely.

“Everyone is double my age and lives in, like, the Midwest. There’s just none of that cohesion or fun. The world has changed.”


Some men insist they haven’t checked out of dating. Rather, they have virtual girlfriends who satisfy all their needs.

Over the past few years, start-ups like Replika, Character.ai, and Inflection AI, have rolled out a universe of virtual companions that users can customize to meet their every desire. One alluring chatbot, Eva AI, woos customers with the promise: “Build relationship and intimacy on your terms.” And one influencer, Caryn Marjorie, says she created an AI version of herself—so far with more than 18,000 “boyfriends”—to “cure loneliness.”

And then there are the real-life sirens of OnlyFans, where its 240 million users can purchase the “girlfriend experience,” and get a constant stream of sexts and loving messages in return for cold, hard cash.

Aella, a top OnlyFans performer who makes $100,000 on “a good month,” says a large part of her job is doting upon her admirers like a lover would, listening to them moan about their tough days or absent girlfriends.

“It turns out the thing that men want is not just sex,” she told The Free Press. “They want sex with a woman that likes them.”

Only a minority of her customers are interested in just physical pleasure, she says. An overwhelming majority reach out to her for companionship, or simply to feel desired by a woman. A “big part” of her job, she says, is tending to men who are lonely.

“An important component to a sexual dynamic is to feel valued,” she told me.

Ethan King, a therapist who “treats 90 percent men” in Austin, Texas, says he often has to convince clients to look beyond the girls they see in porn.

“People say they’re totally happy with their porn girlfriend,” he says. “They’re like, ‘It’s too risky. I’d just rather be online.’ ”

But Ian Soltes, a 33-year-old overnight gas station attendant in Bridgeport, Connecticut, doesn’t want to look past his online “friend with benefits.”

He says he first met his online girlfriend on GameFAQs, a video gaming website that hosts message boards, when he was 13 or 14. They play video games together and message each other all day long (he told me he sent her a “hug emoji” during our interview).

“She has been more than willing to be very close and intimate with me online,” he said. “So any sexual urge I’ve had has been handled by that.”

There’s just one problem: they’ve never met in person or spoken on the phone. Soltes said she can’t because she’s mute.

“I’m pretty convinced it’s a lie,” he admitted. “But at the same time, if I challenge her on it, what’s going to happen? I’m going to find out the one person I’ve been close friends with for decades now is a guy? I don’t want to say I already know that, ’cause I don’t.”

He stumbles to find the right words.

“I’d just be losing a close friend, and I don’t want to risk that.”

The U.S. marriage rate is the lowest it’s been in over a century, with a quarter of 40-year-olds having never married (in 1980, only 6 percent of adults fell into that camp). It’s a trend that continues even though research shows married people are happier.

Americans today “discourage commitment now,” says Steven Mosher, the lead demographer at the Population Research Institute. “The expectation 50 years ago was that everyone would eventually get married and have children. Now, that expectation is gone.”

Already, an increasing number of women are going it alone as mothers, freezing their eggs and using sperm donors to procreate. At some point in the future, Mosher says the family—“the fundamental unit of society”—could completely break down. “We’re going to have children born from sperm donors, with no fathers, eggs and embryos frozen suspended indefinitely until someone wants to add a child to her life.

“This is not a happy future for most of humanity.”

Jon Birger worries about the future, too. Not just for men but for women, who he says aren’t being served by the current dating dynamic—or dating apps, which about half of American “never married” adults say they’ve used at some point.

“Their business goal is to retain users,” says Birger of apps like Tinder that want daters to keep searching for love. The day you settle down is the day their profits die.

His advice to America’s young women is to get off the apps and try “mixed-collar dating.”

“When college-educated women restrict their dating pool to college-educated men, they are effectively limiting themselves to a too-small dating pool,” said Birger, the author of Date-onomics: How Dating Became a Lopsided Numbers Game. “And if you exclude firemen, electricians, plumbers, and other folks that don’t have a college degree, you may be excluding people that you would actually really click with romantically.”

Jammall, the security guard in Florida, says he is open to dating someone more educated or successful than he is, and he believes he could bring a lot to the table. Sure, he doesn’t have a million dollars, but he wants to do “the little things,” like cook dinner for his partner and leave love notes around the house. “I’m trustworthy, loyal, and very direct. I’m also very protective, and I’m not afraid to try new things.”

But still, he knows that many women toggle their apps so that men like him—those without a bachelor’s degree, without a six-figure salary—never appear on their feeds.

And he says they’re “missing out” on a lot of good guys.

“The problem isn’t that I don’t have anything to offer someone—I do,” he says. “But I can’t even get my foot in the door. And if they don’t talk to me, what can I do?”
 
This fact is why I think that the way to begin tackling this problem is to ban dating sites and apps. This may sound counterproductive, but if you limit people's dating pool to their social network, either online or in person, then the whole aspect of shopping people like groceries on Tinder and such goes away because now you'll have to kinda know people before going out with them.

Like most radical solutions, it'll cause some problems in the short term since many people's social circles are fucked, but if you can't rely on dating sites to get dates then it'll force society over time to encourage people to join groups to meet others.
so here's my question, how does one get the political willpower in the west to get something like that done? The libertarian spirit in both the left (nooo I gotta COOOOOM) and the right (le heckin corporation can do whatever it wants who cares about societal consequences) would prevent this from happening.

I don't see it happening outside of something really extreme that I'd rather not happen taking place in our countries like the below
1697898591058.png
 
Where? The duplicate checker came up clean and nothing's showing up in search. You might be mixing it up with some other article about male desperation and misery.
No it was literally this article, because I remember people riffing because the guy was clearly online dating a dude, might have been posted inside another thread. Or I'm actually losing my mind ahhhhhhhhh!
 
I will never understand this sentiment. They're not aliens, dude.
Correct they're worse than aliens. A alien might vaporize you with a space gun, a woman will fuck your life up if you dare to even exist around her when she doesn't want you there.
 
you do actually get it
Sorta? I mean I've had plenty of success meeting girls, have had good dates, and even some long term relationships out of apps, it just feels like a "here we go again" every time I load one of them up. I'd kinda prefer to meet someone organically and actually feel something about a person.
 
actually feel something about a person.
Is it really success if you don't have this? Hookers and porn have been brought up already, but those aren't real solutions. Really, those are symptoms of the problem: no intimacy (personal) between the sexes. Coitus is one thing but relationships are another. Of course all the incels would stop being what they say they are if they just hired a prostitute, that was never really what was wrong with them
what incels actually want.png
 
Some of this is self imposed. I have 2 really good friends, they're great guys. But they are not the best looking and don't have the personality to overcome that. They constantly go after 8-10 women and get depressed when they are turned down. They won't date on their level because they want a hot, sexy girlfriend.

If you are a 5 in looks and aren't rich you are going to have to settle for skinny butterface or chubby with pretty face. Before internet porn and social media most people knew this. Now everyone wants to be with the hottest, tallest, or richest. People need to set their expectations on realistic.
Not gonna say no to this, but I personally don't think this is the necessary rule. You could end up with a really hot wife, and you could end up with a really ugly one. In the end I think a lot of the prettier women are rather vapid and empty, and that's what's the problem. Guys don't look after women with a good heart. Physical beauty is secondary and you kinda need to look for a woman that's also going to age nicely - that's where a lot of the bombshells peak very early and then either away.
 
Not gonna say no to this, but I personally don't think this is the necessary rule. You could end up with a really hot wife, and you could end up with a really ugly one. In the end I think a lot of the prettier women are rather vapid and empty, and that's what's the problem. Guys don't look after women with a good heart. Physical beauty is secondary and you kinda need to look for a woman that's also going to age nicely - that's where a lot of the bombshells peak very early and then either away.
Golden rule is to look at what the mother looks like. She will look like that in 20-30 years.
 
I can kinda see where this person is coming from. I finally managed to move somewhere that women are more into doing shit like riding ATVs and fishing than going to the mall or tiktok influencing, but the drawback is that most of the quality, non-single mother childless women are already claimed.
It struck me that this is one of the main reasons I swipe left or straight up ignore the vast majority of the dating options I see, because there are just so many fucking single moms out there.
Sorry, I know there are cases where it wasn't the desired outcome in the first place, but I ain't gonna fuck up what I want out of life to raise some bastard kid in place of my own. Like I don't even care if the kid is not mixed etc, as soon as I see any evidence of them having a kid it's impossible for me to even imagine a scenario where I'd want to deal with that shit.
 
Once again I'm blown away by how grotesquely pathetic the parasocial world is. Niggercattle paying to message some whore with a thousand followers who 100% never even see their messages themselves. Do they believe they talk to Bezos when they message Amazon support too?

The above is old news though. Knowingly sexting with a faggot catfish even though you're straight, however, is a new one. :story:

If you can't get laid then jack off to free porn and buy a hooker every now and then. It's really that simple. You get social gratification from friends. There's nothing a woman can give you, besides sex, that male friendship can't.
You can't start a family with a man, you can't raise kids with a man (faggots don't count because they are molesting the kids they do raise). Even the lowest quality woman can get you that in theory, but you'd be really doing a disservice to your children by not going after a woman who is as beautiful on the interior as she is on exterior.

Not gonna say no to this, but I personally don't think this is the necessary rule. You could end up with a really hot wife, and you could end up with a really ugly one. In the end I think a lot of the prettier women are rather vapid and empty, and that's what's the problem. Guys don't look after women with a good heart. Physical beauty is secondary and you kinda need to look for a woman that's also going to age nicely - that's where a lot of the bombshells peak very early and then either away.
The problem with a lot of dating advice is that it tries to hyper quantify everything but it doesn't look at the qualitative nature of things at all. Of course you should go after a woman you find attractive, but you should more importantly find one that is a good, wise (at least insofar as not being a fool. You can't realistically expect a woman to be the next Aristotle, but she can do things that make her a good companion that will make your life and hers easier) person and is going to be a good mother.

We have had like 2 or 3 generations of men just looking after the physical aspects of a woman but not sussing out any problems with her attitude. Add that to dating apps which metastasizes the problem and then now we have the current shitshow within the West with low birth and marriage rates.

There's no rule saying an ugly guy can't go out with a very attractive woman, but you should should have a personal standard not to deal with women that display extremely idiotic, vapid or sometimes outright sociopathic and malicious behaviors for the sake of pussy. I really do think the whole point of marriage and courtship (the continuation of bloodlines and of civilization via the birth and rearing of children) is a lost on a lot of people and that the proliferation of dysfunctional sexual behaviors in the West is proof of that.


Edit: There's also a video from the 60s interviewing random women on the street in Australia and their view of whether a man's looks are important and it's kinda shocking that most of them say no and even the ones that say yes come off as reasonable rather than entitled, like I feel most women kind of are. Also, they look prettier since they dress a lot more modestly and come off as intelligent (or at least articulate).

 
Last edited:
“People used to care a bit more deeply about moral character and hard work, and whether the person was an ethical and upstanding citizen,” he tells me. “And now, you don’t have to worry about that quite as much. And you can sort of focus on things that are just, like, more immediate, like attraction.”

Hells bells, the incels were right!

Imagine getting mogged by a moraleless groid who pulls in hella drug money.

Suicide fuel
 
No it was literally this article, because I remember people riffing because the guy was clearly online dating a dude, might have been posted inside another thread. Or I'm actually losing my mind ahhhhhhhhh!
It was literally this article. It was posted about a month ago around when the article was published.
 
He suspects his coworker might have a crush on him, and yet he worries that one wrong move and he’ll be labeled “creepy.”
He should mention to her friend that he thinks she’s really nice but he is far too shy to do anything about it. Let the gossip work back. Come on, Jamal.
The average date in the U.S. comes with a $159 price tag,
Whaaaaat? Seriously? Don’t people just go for a coffee or a walk any more?
Don't date coworkers, the office isn't your personal dating pool and that potential problem goes away.
So many people meet their partners at work. People spend so much time there and after college it’s about the only place most of us meet other humans.
The whole HR-based ‘look at the opposite sex and you’re fired’ stuff will kill that. My old place actually had training (hilariously it was clearly aimed at Indian men) which laid out the rules of ‘fair game to ask once, if you get a no then back the fuck off.’ There has to be a little bit of room to flirt or we are going to go extinct.
Bring back matchmakers. Jamal should have a posse of aunties who know all the young people in the community and set stuff up. We don’t do that any more and we should.
I would have no idea what to do in todays dating climate. It looks horrific
 
L
Hinge is the best thing going if you're looking for an honest relationship. You're probably going to have to drop your physical standards by a point or two, which you can make up for if you indicate that you're looking to get married, but if you're gonna pick an app, Hinge is the best of the bunch in terms of who's on there and what they're looking for.

Yes. This situation is kind of a test; the kind that even normal women can't seem to resist.

Playfully make fun of her for being a typical woman, tell her if she wanted fries she should have ordered fries, and then let her have some of your fries. Her subconscious is trying to figure out if you're going to be a pushover; this response further entrenches your gender roles and establishes you as someone with enough self-esteem to brook no bullshit.

I know that explanation sounds clinical when you break it down, but it's quite natural in the moment so long as you're a guy who actually brooks no bullshit... it's only when you have to "fake it till you make it" that it starts sounding like a prescription rather than a response.

You gay, nigga.
Last person I got with on Hinge was insane.

The other two were the type to write you an essay on text about how they didn't see you as a viable life companion after a 90 minute brunch date.
 
Last edited:
Meeting girls who are friends of your friends or their wife/girlfriend or family members will continue to be the best way to meet girls. Dating apps are poison and the workplace is all dependent on if she’s going to run to HR or not. Don’t be afraid to lean into friends and family.
 
Yeah, about that.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=sZYXtHAiMoA
Even talking to a woman or proposing a coffee date with one is problematic.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=rf03DAvzwHk
Bloody hell.
I wanted the Jetsons future and we got a cross between Demolition Man and 1984.
What’s your office or work like? The last big site I worked at was very working class and very much still flirting. It’s a hard drinking culture, and that has its drawbacks but also makes the office parties lively.
 
Bloody hell.
I wanted the Jetsons future and we got a cross between Demolition Man and 1984.
What’s your office or work like? The last big site I worked at was very working class and very much still flirting. It’s a hard drinking culture, and that has its drawbacks but also makes the office parties lively.
Never had a workplace where it was a good idea to have relationships with coworkers or that I really could have one. Now is little different, and I'm stuck in it until the job market lightens up (hahahaha!) Even then, that's not something I'd ever be comfortable with. Not about the potential scandal or whatever but mixing work life with actual life. Seems like a recipe for disaster and added pressure.
 
Never had a workplace where it was a good idea to have relationships with coworkers or that I really could have one. Now is little different, and I'm stuck in it until the job market lightens up (hahahaha!) Even then, that's not something I'd ever be comfortable with. Not about the potential scandal or whatever but mixing work life with actual life. Seems like a recipe for disaster and added pressure.
Yeah, it’s very dependent on where you work, you know best what the specs of your workplace are. As @George Floyd Sneed says above the ‘friends of friends’ thing is probably best overall but that’s dependent on how sane and functional your family and friends are.
I just don’t know how people meet people in real life these days. Church? Community? Not much of any of that left.
I hate the idea of dating apps.
 
Back
Top Bottom