The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[Sweetpeaa]

Access to abortion is turning over the tide

30 years ago this wasn't the case. They were the mostly likely to be poor, living in section 8 housing and to have kids out of wedlock. Things are changing for them now because of family planning.

 

[Eris!]

Access to abortion is turning over the tide

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30 years ago this wasn't the case. They were the mostly likely to be poor, living in section 8 housing and to have kids out of wedlock. Things are changing for them now because of family planning.

Murder tends to benefit the murderer.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

That's like saying it's responsible to wear a helmet when bashing your head against a wall.
It's more responsible than not wearing a helmet I suppose, but still extremely irresponsible.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but people are gonna fuck.

I certainly don't think those women should murder their innocent children.

I'm sorry that you can't see the clear moral line here and are so deluded that you think clear moral lines don't exist.

Who says it's murder? I'd say you are the immoral one by forcing children, who would only suffer by being born, to be born. That makes you a shitty person. I'd even say that makes you a torturer. Why are you for torturing babies?

The phrasing you people choose to use makes it impossible to take you seriously.
We're not forcing anyone to be born. We're not walking around forcefully inseminating women.
We're forcing you not to commit murder.

You're forcing babies to be born only for them to suffer. You're a torturer.

 

[Eris!]

Well, I hate to break it to you, but people are gonna fuck.

And that choice has consequences.

Who says it's murder?

Reality.

I'd say you are the immoral one by forcing children, who would only suffer by being born, to be born.

I am not forcing anyone to be born. I am not applying any force to the baby. I have no part in its conception or its birth, and I certainly did not force either to occur.
I'm just forcing you not to murder your baby.

That makes you a shitty person.

No, actually, it makes me a moral person.

I'd even say that makes you a torturer.

You would be factually incorrect.

Why are you for torturing babies?

Can you point to the specific people actively causing pain in babies with their own actions? Because that's what torture is.
Permitting pain which you did not cause to exist is not torture you can be personally blamed for.
None of you people seem to understand basic concepts like mens rea or personal responsibility for direct actions and their direct consequences.
You can't blame me for things I don't do lmao.

You're forcing babies to be born only for them to suffer

I'm literally not.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Reality.

No, your reality says that. Most peoples reality does not. Your reality does not equal real reality.

I am not forcing anyone to be born. I am not applying any force to the baby. I have no part in its conception or its birth, and I certainly did not force either to occur.
I'm just forcing you not to murder your baby.

Yes, you are. If a couple is trying to conceive and their baby would end up having a condition that would only mean it would suffer its entire life, you are forcing them to be born. You're a sadistic torturer. You have no morals.

No, actually, it makes me a moral person.

You would be factually incorrect.

Wrong. It makes you a terrible person. A sadistic torturer. That's worse than a person who gets an abortion.

Can you point to the specific people actively causing pain in babies with their own actions? Because that's what torture is.
Permitting pain which you did not cause to exist is not torture you can be personally blamed for.
None of you people seem to understand basic concepts like mens rea or personal responsibility for direct actions and their direct consequences.
You can't blame me for things I don't do lmao.

Wrong. There are conditions that babies can be born with that would mean they would only live to suffer. You're saying that instead of giving them a peaceful death before they become sentient, they should be forced to be born, only for them to suffer. That makes you a pretty horrible person.

You also are saying a woman, if raped, should be forced to have the baby and even be financially responsible for it. That also makes you a pretty shitty person. I hope for your sake you are never raped

 

[Eris!]

No, your reality says that. Most peoples reality does not. Your reality does not equal real reality.

You don't get your own reality. There's just one.

Yes, you are. If a couple is trying to conceive and their baby would end up having a condition that would only mean it would suffer its entire life, you are forcing them to be born. You're a sadistic torturer. You have no morals.

Forcing you not to kill someone is not forcing that person to live. I had no active part in the creation of their life and bear zero responsibility for it.

Wrong. It makes you a terrible person. A sadistic torturer. That's worse than a person who gets an abortion.

Your attempt to mirror my moral superiority in a sad attempt to make me understand how you feel is cute.
The problem is you clearly don't actually believe what you're saying, and I certainly don't.
So it's a stupid argumentative line to pursue.

they should be forced to be born

"Forced to be born" would be a c-section. You don't seem to understand what the word forced means. I would need to take some action that is directly responsible for them being born. I have done no such thing. I have taken literally zero actions and caused literally nothing.

You also are saying a woman, if raped, should be forced to have the baby and even be financially responsible for it.

You keep using the word forced wrong.
The rapist forced her to be pregnant. I didn't. I didn't force her to do anything.
All I did was force her not to commit murder.

 

[Day Of The Sword]

@Erischan

If you watch someone cross the street about to be hit by a car, and you process in your brain, "I will not prevent this person's suffering."
You are a morally reprehensible person.

This thread has devolved into you sperging out while users tag team you, go outside or something.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

You don't get your own reality. There's just one.

Your reality is not the one reality, though.

Forcing you not to kill someone is not forcing that person to live. I had no active part in the creation of their life and bear zero responsibility for it.

You missed my whole post there. Learn to read before you tell us what murder is

Your attempt to mirror my moral superiority in a sad attempt to make me understand how you feel is cute.
The problem is you clearly don't actually believe what you're saying, and I certainly don't.
So it's a stupid argumentative line to pursue.

"Forced to be born" would be a c-section. You don't seem to understand what the word forced means. I would need to take some action that is directly responsible for them being born. I have done no such thing. I have taken literally zero actions and caused literally nothing.

You keep using the word forced wrong.
The rapist forced her to be pregnant. I didn't. I didn't force her to do anything.
All I did was force her not to commit murder.

You are forcing these people to suffer because of your warped view of what murder is. You are thus wanting to be responsible for innocent people suffering. That makes you a sadistic torturer. You should be ashamed of yourself. I know it's difficult because of your autism, but try to think of things from others perspectives.

 

[Eris!]

If you watch someone cross the street about to be hit by a car, and you process in your brain, "I will not prevent this person's suffering."
You are a morally reprehensible person.

How many people died in china while you typed this sentence you murderous monster?

You are forcing these people to suffer because of your warped view of what murder is.

What force am I applying to them specifically which specifically and directly causes their suffering?
Hint: None.

You are thus wanting to be responsible for innocent people suffering.

I bear zero responsibility for something I had no part in causing.

That makes you a sadistic torturer. You should be ashamed of yourself. I know it's difficult because of your autism, but try to think of things from others perspectives.

Like I said, this transparent attempt to mirror my tone is sad.

 

[ADHD]

I think even just abandoning your child to adoption is pretty unfathomably immoral.

That's what family is for. Let an aunt raise the kid.

Could you elaborate on this? Why should an aunt, who had nothing to do with the baby's creation, be stuck raising the child, when the baby could instead be placed with a couple who wants to raise it?

 

[Eris!]

Could you elaborate on this? Why should an aunt, who had nothing to do with the baby's creation, be stuck raising the child, when the baby could instead be placed with a couple who wants to raise it?

How did society get so fucked up that someone is unironically asking this question?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/family

Definition of RESPONSIBILITY

the quality or state of being responsible: such as; moral, legal, or mental accountability; reliability, trustworthiness… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Day Of The Sword]

How many people died in china while you typed this sentence you murderous monster?

I cannot prevent that, in the hypothetical situation that i proposed, you could.

 

[ADHD]

How did society get so fucked up that someone is unironically asking this question?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/family

That doesn't answer my question. A random aunt did not create the baby and is not responsible for the baby. A random aunt isn't even guaranteed to exist. There are many couples seeking to adopt babies. Why is it immoral to place your baby for adoption with one of those couples?

 

[Eris!]

I cannot prevent that, in the hypothetical situation that i proposed, you could.

You could buy a plane ticket right now, fly to china, find the guy about to get hit by a car, and prevent it.
You could iterate that for every discrete person who died. Ability to solve their problems is irrelevant. What's relevant is personal responsibility for those problems. You didn't cause them, and you have no personal obligations toward the person suffering them, so you have no moral impetus obligating you to fix them.

Permitting someone to die is not murder. You permit people to die every second of every day. You must personally cause it to be responsible for it.

 

[Eris!]

A random aunt did not create the baby

Correct

and is not responsible for the baby.

Incorrect.

Also why are you referring to her as "Random?" Your familial relations are not "Random." Your aunt is not unrelated to you, she is related to you. You have personal obligations and responsibilities toward the wellbeing of your family.

Why is it immoral to place your baby for adoption with one of those couples?

Because you have a responsibility to that baby, and they don't.

There are two kinds of immoral acts: Doing something impermissible, and not doing something you are obligated to. This is the latter.

 

[Day Of The Sword]

You could buy a plane ticket right now, fly to china, find the guy about to get hit by a car, and prevent it.
You could iterate that for every discrete person who died. Ability to solve their problems is irrelevant. What's relevant is personal responsibility for those problems. You didn't cause them, and you have no personal obligations toward the person suffering them, so you have no moral impetus obligating you to fix them.

Permitting someone to die is not murder. You permit people to die every second of every day. You must personally cause it to be responsible for it.

That would be at a great cost, in the car situation, all you need to do is yell.
In the case of birthing a baby that is going to die painfully, all you need to do is say "yes" to a doctor that offers an abortion.

 

[Eris!]

hat would be at a great cost, in the car situation, all you need to do is yell.

Is the cost of upholding a moral obligation a factor in whether or not you must uphold it?
Hint: no.

 

[Day Of The Sword]

Is cost a factor?
Hint: no.

Yes it is

 

[Eris!]

Yes it is

No.

 

[Day Of The Sword]

No.

Well im right and your wrong, because im probably bigger than you