Team Fortress 2 Community - A free-to-play dress up game for grownups, gameplay fully automated! Waiting to be mercy killed...

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Unyielding Stupidity said:
Blizzard balancing doomed Overwatch to failure - any balance change they made would either make a character completely worthless, or make them so overpowered the meta would devolve into either playing that character, or playing characters that specifically counter them. Which, in a hero shooter, where character choice is a fundamental part of the game, having more than half of the cast be unplayable at any given time due to this fact isn't exactly great game design.
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I haven't played Overwatch in a long time, so I'm not sure how bad the balancing is now, but I remember it being pretty well-balanced on release. These days, I've heard it's devolved into the same thing over and over because of how badly they fucked up balancing the new heroes. It seems like they break the game more every time they add one.
 
Furret said:
I haven't played Overwatch in a long time, so I'm not sure how bad the balancing is now, but I remember it being pretty well-balanced on release. These days, I've heard it's devolved into the same thing over and over because of how badly they fucked up balancing the new heroes. It seems like they break the game more every time they add one.
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Some of the new heroes were broken on release, with Brigette being the worst offender - several people I knew quit after she was added. Several other heroes ended up becoming broken after being buffed, like when Bastion got buffed, and the meta for several weeks devolved into who could keep their Bastion alive longest to kill the other team's Bastion.
The balancing for the game got so bad they ended up having to force 2-2-2 class setups purely to kill off a specific cancerous triple-tank meta team that every single pro team in their forced esports league was using.

Then again, that's not saying that the meta of competitive TF2 is any better - it has one of the most stagnant metas i've ever seen. In the main competitive setup (6v6), pretty much every team runs the exact same team composition - 2 Scouts, 2 Soldiers, 1 Demoman and 1 Medic. It's so prevalent that some teams will flat-out refuse to play practice matches against teams that don't run this composition. It's just less noticeable because most people don't play TF2 competitively.
 
Unyielding Stupidity said:
Then again, that's not saying that the meta of competitive TF2 is any better - it has one of the most stagnant metas i've ever seen. In the main competitive setup (6v6), pretty much every team runs the exact same team composition - 2 Scouts, 2 Soldiers, 1 Demoman and 1 Medic. It's so prevalent that some teams will flat-out refuse to play practice matches against teams that don't run this composition. It's just less noticeable because most people don't play TF2 competitively.
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I never understood the appeal of competitive TF2, personally. The game was never designed with competitive play in mind, so getting it to work is a nightmare. Some classes are hilariously weak, some classes are way too strong, some weapons break the system and need to be banned, so on and so forth. Outside of a casual environment, TF2 doesn't really hold together well.
 
Furret said:
I never understood the appeal of competitive TF2, personally. The game was never designed with competitive play in mind, so getting it to work is a nightmare. Some classes are hilariously weak, some classes are way too strong, some weapons break the system and need to be banned, so on and so forth. Outside of a casual environment, TF2 doesn't really hold together well.
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I think another issue is that there are only so many classes that have immediate fire power or utility. I refer to it was Ready Set vs. Wind Up gameplay.
Classes like Engineer, Spy, Sniper are although incredibly useful, require some sort of time table to work with or immense skill that revolves around precision. Engineer takes time to set up his things and upgrade, Sniper has to crouch strafe waiting for full charges, and Spy has to hide and shuttle around invisibly and pray to Hale himself if he doesn’t want to be vaporized. These are Wind Up classes.

On the other hand, Demo Man, Soldier, Scout, and Medic are Ready Start classes. No matter where you are on the map, you’re vital to victory by filling a niche or even having high levels of chemistry. It’s why you see Medics Naturally gravitate before Soldier and Heavy before going onto someone else. It takes quite literally less then 20 clicks between the entire team to start a heavy bombardment offensive with high mobility, damage, survivability, and kit variation. They’re specific enough to fill a job but have enough wiggle room to shake up what weapons they could use.

The Wind Up classes have no such luxury. They have a gimmick with very little variation, and even with variation, is often more detrimental then not, and they default back to stock. Against Ready Start classes, you simply can’t prepare. It makes those 3 classes rare to see, harder to see used well, and hardest to see not be the first to die even when played well.

EDIT: Sorry for Tisming out, I just hold a lot of love for this game despite it’s... unsavory audience at the moment.
 
Furret said:
I never understood the appeal of competitive TF2, personally. The game was never designed with competitive play in mind, so getting it to work is a nightmare. Some classes are hilariously weak, some classes are way too strong, some weapons break the system and need to be banned, so on and so forth. Outside of a casual environment, TF2 doesn't really hold together well.
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do you really think the competitivefags care? they want to host tournaments and make millions of dorahs just like their CS competitivefag fwiends, also ego rubbing.

the whole point of the game being lulzy is the BarbeQueQ achievement ffs, the morons that say TF2 has a healthy competitive scene are so far up their own ass it's laughable.
Shaka Brah said:
Also Overwatch was an """"""esports"""""" game. It was doomed to fail because of the necessity of balancing away all the fun.
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any esport game is doomed to fail to be honest, competitive focused games being released lately often die in matter of months and the esport scene is well defined already so no need for new areas to trod. if a nibba paid me to do a esport focused game i'd do it no problemo, but i wouldn't fucking support it because you can't compete at all with the games that already fill the slots of the scene, it will die faster than a fish out of the sea.
 
TVStactic said:
do you really think the competitivefags care? they want to host tournaments and make millions of dorahs just like their CS competitivefag fwiends, also ego rubbing.

the whole point of the game being lulzy is the BarbeQueQ achievement ffs, the morons that say TF2 has a healthy competitive scene are so far up their own ass it's laughable.
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They love to blame Valve for the lack of support, failing to realize that Valve never designed TF2 for competitive play and only added it at all to please the autists demanding it.
 
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I'm surprised that a thread about this community wasn't made earlier. I'll leave the nostalgia and good memories to the thread in the games subforum eventually.
That said at some point I started to get into competitive play and started to use TF2Center, a community site to make and join lobbies of 6v6 and 9v9 modes. MasterNoob, the founder and admin of the site, is a massive autistic faggot who can't take any criticism and is happy to ban people even for shit said off-site, even if it wasn't insulting. Alternatives were few or just started to build up and so without many players, otherwise the best way was to search for irc groups or organize directly with players at your level preferably even if it wasn't a quick thing to do. About this MasterNoob loved to brag how his site was the best and that the people who complained so much should just make their own since it was so easy, but he didn't allow talking about the alternatives on TF2Center. At some point he started to censor "TF2Stadium" (one of his competitors), then just the word "stadium" and it was funny to see people coming up with creative ways to say that in the chat, and then of course getting banned for that.
The mod team was a fitting squad of spergs that among the usual faggotry that jannies perpetuate they loved to cancel other peoples lobbies with the excuse that there were enough open so the players had to join the mod's games. Noone liked to do that since you could easily get kicked/banned for playing in the wrong way or saying something that the mods didn't like.
Two big things that I remember is first that TF2Center also implemented an anti-ad-block system. The second one is that in 2015 there was DeutschLAN, a lan event of Highlander mode (9v9), and TF2Center was initially a sponsor only to be unceremoniously dropped by the organizers mainly because the initial prizepool of 2000€ promised by MasterNoob got cut down to 500€ and also because he pressed DeutschLAN to not allow a former TF2Center to take part to the event. Have a thread on this competitive TF2 forums or MasterNoob non-apology about the happening if you want to read some sperging.
Sorry if I was too vague in some parts but it's been years and I didn't stick in that scene for long.
 
I don't much care for shooters in general, but dear god is the TF2 community insufferable at times.
 
PopRocks said:
I don't much care for shooters in general, but dear god is the TF2 community insufferable at times.
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FPS’s in general just have such entitled autistic fanbases. Ya know what? Call me a basic bitch, I loved COD MW. I love COD, the games before MW2 were great and honest to god Wild West good fun. But holy shit, is that community so wide and far entitled, it gives the Undertale folks a run for their money, if for different reasons.

Now, don’t get me wrong, a lot of people do deserve to be entitled- the quality of classic FPS’s as of late like Halo, Cod, Quake, and Battlefield have been sub-par and flat out insulting, but when you all can’t agree on simple elements that made the game great, of course the company is going to do random shit, there’s no coherent ideas amongst fans, just a useless shouting match.
 
Unyielding Stupidity said:
Then again, that's not saying that the meta of competitive TF2 is any better - it has one of the most stagnant metas i've ever seen. In the main competitive setup (6v6), pretty much every team runs the exact same team composition - 2 Scouts, 2 Soldiers, 1 Demoman and 1 Medic. It's so prevalent that some teams will flat-out refuse to play practice matches against teams that don't run this composition. It's just less noticeable because most people don't play TF2 competitively.
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Youre not wrong about 6v6 class composition being the same as it was in 2007, but the meta in terms of how those classes are played has actually changed a lot. Originally the pocket soldier was considered the most powerful role and would take the majority of the heals and almost every ubercharge, but now both soldiers are basically just used as pawns for the rest of your team to follow up on. Scouts used to not do much besides watch the flank and finish off weak targets but now they are your medics main heal target and take the majority of the ubers. Some of this is due to updates like adding gunboats and medics now running at scout speed while healing them, but theyre also consequences of people getting much better at the game over all of these years. Even an average competitive scout has movement light years ahead of the best scouts in 2009. The only class that hasn't really changed that much in terms of how it's played is demo.

I get the appeal of wanting a game where people are always trying crazy new things but it's also nice to play a game where things are consistent and you can focus on improving execution opposed to learning a new class/hero every 2 months because updates throw the game into chaos.
 
Capnfapn said:
Youre not wrong about 6v6 class composition being the same as it was in 2007, but the meta in terms of how those classes are played has actually changed a lot. Originally the pocket soldier was considered the most powerful role and would take the majority of the heals and almost every ubercharge, but now both soldiers are basically just used as pawns for the rest of your team to follow up on. Scouts used to not do much besides watch the flank and finish off weak targets but now they are your medics main heal target and take the majority of the ubers. Some of this is due to updates like adding gunboats and medics now running at scout speed while healing them, but theyre also consequences of people getting much better at the game over all of these years. Even an average competitive scout has movement light years ahead of the best scouts in 2009. The only class that hasn't really changed that much in terms of how it's played is demo.

I get the appeal of wanting a game where people are always trying crazy new things but it's also nice to play a game where things are consistent and you can focus on improving execution opposed to learning a new class/hero every 2 months because updates throw the game into chaos.
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Stagnant / static metas like this remind me of chess. The base game of chess hasn't changed at all for centuries, but people (and computers) are still finding new strategies and play-styles today. The emergent complexities of games like chess, go, and such is actually pretty interesting but most people want their electronic games to have a lot more flash, style, and unpredictability it seems. Also competitive vidya / '''esports''' attracts the worst sort of spergery so that doesn't help.
 
lmfao
im power leveling but I was really into the competitive tf2 scene from 2012-2014. The autism I witnessed in those two years was staggering.

6s (6 vs 6) was the most competitive format and the top teams participated in ESEA. Since the valve anti-cheat client is so fucking useless and cheating was rampant in the scene, official ESEA matches required all 12 participants to use their 3rd party anti-cheat software.

Turned out that client was a total sham and actually used the users GPU to mine BTC. ESEA had to eventually pay over 1 million USD .
:story:
 
Enne said:

The game is nowhere near as alive as the steam player count would have you believe
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Didn't this entire thing end up being a lie about how many people actually play tf2? Where Steam accounts for unique users, but this just finds the active ones playing now? Felt like this was disingenuous for the information it was trying to provide, make it look worse, just with how Tyler McSnickers was basically feeding into the same idea of the low player count.
 
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